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Since this is a Walther forum, I thought maybe some of you would have a chance to compare the Hellcat to the PPS or the PPQ SC????
Yes....the PPS. My PPS trigger is significantly better. HC trigger has approx. the same pre-travel but it also had a lot of creep and both those motions combined is the kiss of death as to accuracy and speed of follow-up shots.
 

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My PPS trigger is significantly better. HC trigger has approx. the same pre-travel but it also had a lot of creep and both those motions combined is the kiss of death as to accuracy and speed of follow-up shots.
I concur with this assessment and have nothing to add to it. It's spot-on with respect to how I feel about my PPS and the Hellcat's trigger, as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
As someone who has fired all three guns.....

I would add this.....

Both the HC and the 365 are smaller, have higher capacity and lower bore axis.

While I am a fan of the PPS, I think both the 365 and the HC are better guns for the intended purpose.
 

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Since this is a Walther forum, I thought maybe some of you would have a chance to compare the Hellcat to the PPS or the PPQ SC????
I have not found any thin 9MM pistol come close to replacing my original PPS. I have tried both the P365 and Hellcat and shoot my PPS much better but in my case I believe it is because the P365 and Hellcat are too small for my hands, particularly with trigger reach. I also found my PPS to be a significantly more pleasant pistol to shoot and that may primarily be due to it weighing more. As always it is best to try out whatever one is considering.
 
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As someone who has fired all three guns.....

I would add this.....

Both the HC and the 365 are smaller, have higher capacity and lower bore axis.

While I am a fan of the PPS, I think both the 365 and the HC are better guns for the intended purpose.
I have to agree, not just capacity - the sights on the 365s are awesome. My XL is as good as my M17.
 

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As someone who has fired all three guns.....

I would add this.....

Both the HC and the 365 are smaller, have higher capacity and lower bore axis.

While I am a fan of the PPS, I think both the 365 and the HC are better guns for the intended purpose.
I would agree.
 

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I guess I'm going to be that guy. I am watching this drive to smaller high capacity carry guns with some amusement.

Yes the P365s and Hellcats are technically impressive. But what if a person shoots their PPS better? What if they just enjoy owning and shooting the thing?

As we've talked about many times the average shooting is three rounds at three yards.

While there are scenarios where the increased capacity of a P365 is an advantage, I think this whole rush to these things is a bit overblown.

If you can shoot your PPS well, carry a reload, and can reload reasonable well, the guy carrying the PPS is at very little to no disadvantage depending on the scenario.

There is so much buzz around the P365 and now Hellcat that one could get the impression someone is dead meat if they are not carrying one of them.

A persons skill with their carry gun and tactics will typically have more to do with their chances of survival than number of rounds carried going from 7 or 8 to 11.

I think it's all a little overblown.

There I said it. I won't go on and on about it.
 

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I guess I'm going to be that guy. I am watching this drive to smaller high capacity carry guns with some amusement.



Yes the P365s and Hellcats are technically impressive. But what if a person shoots their PPS better? What if they just enjoy owning and shooting the thing?



As we've talked about many times the average shooting is three rounds at three yards.



While there are scenarios where the increased capacity of a P365 is an advantage, I think this whole rush to these things is a bit overblown.



If you can shoot your PPS well, carry a reload, and can reload reasonable well, the guy carrying the PPS is at very little to no disadvantage depending on the scenario.



There is so much buzz around the P365 and now Hellcat that one could get the impression someone is dead meat if they are not carrying one of them.



A persons skill with their carry gun and tactics will typically have more to do with their chances of survival than number of rounds carried going from 7 or 8 to 11.



I think it's all a little overblown.



There I said it. I won't go on and on about it.
In case you didn't notice the title of this post is Hellcat vs Sig 365
 

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Discussion Starter #70
I had a guy in my carry class last weekend who qualified with a Ruger LCP. He outscored everyone else with a 243/250. The best gun is training and skill. Hate to see what the guy could have done with a 365.
 

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Ill never conceal-carry a ported pistol for self defense purposes. If you are ever in a situation where you need to draw from behind the wheel of your car at a threat standing at your drivers side window, the ports are aimed right at you and that hot gas isn't going to do you any favors. This alone eliminated the P365 SAS. But the sights fitted flush to the slide are pretty cool.

Never handled a Hellcat but i love my PPS and shoot well with it. The only thing i may ever upgrade to at this time would be to get another one in LE configuration.
 

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Ill never conceal-carry a ported pistol for self defense purposes. If you are ever in a situation where you need to draw from behind the wheel of your car at a threat standing at your drivers side window, the ports are aimed right at you and that hot gas isn't going to do you any favors. This alone eliminated the P365 SAS. But the sights fitted flush to the slide are pretty cool.
That's a legitimate but rare edge case -- one you can solve for by replacing the ported barrel with a standard barrel from the regular P365. Thus, if you like everything else about the P365 SAS and the ported barrel is the ONLY thing holding you back -- there's a ready solution for it -- just buy a barrel and do the swap and, voila, problem solved.

There's also another, cheaper option: when shooting the threat standing at your driver's side window, simply do so with the top of the slide facing the front of your car -- such that the ports direct gasses toward the dash rather than up at your face. It's not like you'll be using the sights to aim in such a scenario, so the orientation of the slide is of little importance...

Surreal

P.S. If you've ever fired a pistol inside a small, enclosed space, then you already know you'll be temporarily deaf as a post (with ears ringing) immediately after firing the P365 inside a vehicle -- regardless of whether or not the barrel is ported. Ok, not actually deaf, but you know what I mean -- it won't be like John Wick movies where you can talk at normal volume right after shooting the pistol inside a confined space.
 
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@Surreal: Noted and thanks. I like the sight system of the SAS but also just leery introducing any complications and (for me) I need to be a strict adherent of the KISS principal. I know me.. and that one edge case will be what would be the most likely thing to happen. In that split second, I'm not sure I'll be in a presence of mind to tip the slide forward and probably end up branding myself in the process.

Training in close-quarters such as inside (and out) of a vehicle is something that everyone should seek out. I got a chance to use a "total-loss" towed in for our weekend purposes and just the experience of drawing from behind that wheel, shooting through the doors, experimenting with windows up and down and shooting out of, and in to, through the windshield gave a lab experience that drove some interesting results.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Hey boys and girls......

This is what I tell my students.....

Want to carry a .22, then do so. Feel better with a ported barrel? Knock yourself out. Do what you want. Just know everything has pros and cons.

But “gun people” can get really “goofy” sometimes. Overly opinionated and judgy. Good grief...people can dream up every possible situation that will likely never happen and draw a conclusion from that one thing....that will never happen

But let’s add a little science to this....

In order for a port to reduce flip by 30% all you need is about 3% of hot air to pass through the port. It’s not a lot.

I have taken a piece of paper and placed it next to the ports while firing the gun, and it barely leaves a mark and doesn’t create a hole in the paper.

Personally, I think the drawbacks of ports are far over stated. Likewise....so are the benefits.
 

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Training in close-quarters such as inside (and out) of a vehicle is something that everyone should seek out. I got a chance to use a "total-loss" towed in for our weekend purposes and just the experience of drawing from behind that wheel, shooting through the doors, experimenting with windows up and down and shooting out of, and in to, through the windshield gave a lab experience that drove some interesting results.
You can get that experience by driving on any of the major roads in the DFW. 35, 75, 635... For some CQ practice, go cruising in South Dallas.
 

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Hey boys and girls......

This is what I tell my students.....

Want to carry a .22, then do so. Feel better with a ported barrel? Knock yourself out. Do what you want. Just know everything has pros and cons.

But “gun people” can get really “goofy” sometimes. Overly opinionated and judgy. Good grief...people can dream up every possible situation that will likely never happen and draw a conclusion from that one thing....that will never happen

But let’s add a little science to this....

In order for a port to reduce flip by 30% all you need is about 3% of hot air to pass through the port. It’s not a lot.

I have taken a piece of paper and placed it next to the ports while firing the gun, and it barely leaves a mark and doesn’t create a hole in the paper.

Personally, I think the drawbacks of ports are far over stated. Likewise....so are the benefits.
I have written about having used paper over the ports on several gun forums since about a decade but the myth that hot gasses and an unbelievably powerful blast, more devastating than Kathrina, will make a ported gun unsuitable for anything but range fun is fixed in the mind of many people still.
 

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We also have to bear in mind, that the direction that the gasses are vented in, can be quite different on ported and compensated barrels. If the porting is a double row porting and angled, it will be much harder to tilt a handgun to let the blast go away from the shooter. If the porting is directly on top it is simple to tilt the gun away.

Tests have shown that recoil, depending on gas pressure and powder charge, as well as compensator style, can be reduced by about 50%.

That allows much faster follow-up shots. While I am very confident of my shooting skills, for accuracy and speed, as well, I take any advantage I can get.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reducing-recoil-traditional-vs-bushing-compensators/99649
 

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I'm wondering when Walther will bring us a higher capacity pistol competing with the M&P and Sig?
They'll likely give us another Umarex thing like the pk380, CCP, creed, ppx...
 

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I always look at my weapon as a system of systems. The firearm is part; the ammo, another. Holster/Carry location, Situational awareness, tactics, skill/training all play into the outcome of one’s performance.

For me, the ports are one part of one subsystem, and what they interact with is the gas generated by the powder in the ammo subsystem. If one carries high-gas-generating load, the ports work better, but they also create more problems in confined space or retention positions. In my standard P365 (do not have a SAS, yet), I’ve recently switched ammo to a lower-pressure, low-flash, low-recoil load, and it is amazing in the shooting characteristics of the pistol. Split times are faster, virtually no flash, great penetration and expansion, very controllable. I feel this ammo will make the ports meaningless anyway, so with the detractors, I really don’t like them.

The other aspect of the ports is slide mass. The original, unported 365 has primer swipes. Leaving the firing pin breakage issue aside, it indicates the highest slide velocity of any small 9mm I’ve shot. Adding an ounce or so of slide mass in the XL greatly improved the dwell/slowed the speed of the slide. With the ports, going back to the smallest/lightest slide, it is only going to aggravate the slide velocity issue, an issue I don’t want to be there in my defense system, for confidence, if no other reason.
 

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With the ports, going back to the smallest/lightest slide, it is only going to aggravate the slide velocity issue, an issue I don’t want to be there in my defense system, for confidence, if no other reason.
Maybe. Maybe not. Key to this is that you only focused on the reduced mass of the slide due to the porting … without giving consideration to the reduced gas pressure resulting from the porting. Less pressure due to porting should result in less recoil and slide velocity... compared to an unported P365.
 
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