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Discussion Starter #41
I picked up my SAS today....put about 50 rounds through it. Shot it fast....shot it slow.

The gun is cool as hell and I think it’s a home run. It’s perfect for what it is. I have not run it through it’s paces yet but did shoot it from from defensive positions.

Let’s address a few points. First the slide lock. It’s a lock and not a release. It’s barely usable as a release, so don’t use it as one.

Trigger is perfect for what the gun is designed for.

Sights. Take a little getting used to, but intuitive. They work.

Accuracy. Every round I fired was from 15 to 20 ft. Nothing crazy. Every shot...every shot went center of mass. The last ten rounds were less then 3” inches apart. It’s not a Shadow 2, a Sig P210 or a 1911, but it’s accurate enough. More important it’s predictable.

Recoil? Rather, what recoil?. The most astonishing thing about the gun is that it’s a 9mm that shoots like a 380. The ported slide and barrel work. This gun is very easy to get multiple rounds on target quickly. When I get back to the range, I will show you what I mean with photos. At 15 ft, with no practice I could empty a magazine as fast as I could pump the trigger and every round hit center of mass. Every round. That says a lot for a gun this small.

I fired the gun up to my body in the close ready position.....no issues at all with the ports. The decibel level, to me, not an issue. It’s a non issue at least with muffs on.

Here is the thing, if you want a small gun, that shoots like a much bigger gun, has great capacity and conceals like a gun smaller than it really is, I don’t think there is anything better than this gun. Nothing I have ever fired. I don’t thing the SAS has a real competitor in regards to what it actually delivers. Is it a gun for everyone? No.
 

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So, what negatives (plural) are you talking about? The trigger is the only one that comes to mind -- and that's a singular issue that can be addressed the same way I addressed the issue on my LCP -- and I have no issue doing the required work.
You identified the negatives in your post #38.
 

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I wrote my original P365 review in January 2018 and that review was overall positive. I have not purchased the P365 primarily because at the time of my review the 365 was in the midst of several issues.....the firing pin weakness primary among them.

Today I fired the new Hellcat and while I did not experience any failures I have to say my pattern was less than desirable. Following 35 rounds I finally gave in and decided that my 2 year layoff affected me more than I suspected. Luckily I had taken my PPS and PPQ 45 which enabled me to verify whether it was the Hellcat or me. End results were as follows:

Target distance 21'.

Pattern Diameter & Ammo Used
Hellcat 8" Magtech 115gr fmj
PPS 3.5" Magtech 115gr fmj
PPQ 4" Federal Premium 230gr HST +P

Obviously the shooter played a part in the results but even though the Hellcat was completely new to me it was very comparable to the PPS in all respects. However, I have not fired the PPS in over 3 years and had less than 200 rounds total fired through it.

The preferred pistol for me is the P365.
8" at 21 feet is pretty...rough. What do you think that was about? The trigger? The way the pistol fit your hand? Sights off?

Just curious.
 

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8" at 21 feet is pretty...rough. What do you think that was about? The trigger? The way the pistol fit your hand? Sights off? Just curious.
It's very easy to blame the pistol so I must first say it was mostly the shooter. However, I can say with objectivity that the trigger was an issue for me. When I inspected the Hellcat at the LGS counter I quickly discovered there was a significant amount of creep. That led to a question to the customer service rep as to when they placed it in the rental cabinet. He said they received it 2 weeks before and I was one of the first to rent it.

Now, when you compound a long trigger travel with a lot of creep that becomes a killer for me in terms of control. Without a doubt that was a major contributor to the 8" pattern......as well as two years without firing a round. The triggers on both my PPS and PPQ 45 are extremely smooth with "instantaneous" breaks so my hold and control is much better.
 

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It's very easy to blame the pistol so I must first say it was mostly the shooter. However, I can say with objectivity that the trigger was an issue for me. When I inspected the Hellcat at the LGS counter I quickly discovered there was a significant amount of creep. That led to a question to the customer service rep as to when they placed it in the rental cabinet. He said they received it 2 weeks before and I was one of the first to rent it.

Now, when you compound a long trigger travel with a lot of creep that becomes a killer for me in terms of control. Without a doubt that was a major contributor to the 8" pattern......as well as two years without firing a round. The triggers on both my PPS and PPQ 45 are extremely smooth with "instantaneous" breaks so my hold and control is much better.
Thanks for the review and the response.

What you say makes a lot of sense. Two years is a long time to go without firing a round. You will definitely lose some "edge" with that kind of lay off.

For whatever reason, I've found shooting the P99 and PPQ series intuitive. Just really easy to point and shoot to a reasonable standard. There are other guns that take more work. The HK DA/SA guns come to mind.
 

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You identified the negatives in your post #38.
I asked you to be specific because a number of my observations in that post indicated certain of those observations were not issues for me. (i.e. If it's not an issue for me, then it's not a negative as far as I'm concerned.)

So, would you kindly enumerate what YOU feel are negatives?
 

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I asked you to be specific because a number of my observations in that post indicated certain of those observations were not issues for me. (i.e. If it's not an issue for me, then it's not a negative as far as I'm concerned.)

So, would you kindly enumerate what YOU feel are negatives?

Sights, slide release and ported barrel. Not sure beyond those because I have not had the SAS in hand or on the range.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I asked you to be specific because a number of my observations in that post indicated certain of those observations were not issues for me. (i.e. If it's not an issue for me, then it's not a negative as far as I'm concerned.)

So, would you kindly enumerate what YOU feel are negatives?

Sights, slide release and ported barrel. Not sure beyond those because I have not had the SAS in hand or on the range.
I agree. Those are significant attributes of the gun.

It’s funny to read some of the reviews of the gun buy owners. They buy it and then complain about the slide release. It’s like buying a corvette and then complaining that it doesn’t have a back seat.

The SAS is perfect for what it is.
 

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I agree. Those are significant attributes of the gun.

It’s funny to read some of the reviews of the gun buy owners. They buy it and then complain about the slide release. It’s like buying a corvette and then complaining that it doesn’t have a back seat.

The SAS is perfect for what it is.
I was going to wait to buy one, but then I had to fill out my renewal form for my CC permit … which made me think about guns ... which resulted in me going to the LGS and purchasing the SAS.

I won't get a chance to shoot it until next week, though. On the plus side, I DID confirm that the standard P365 barrel seems to fit/function just fine in the SAS. (Note: I tested with a snap cap.)

Surreal

P.S. I fondled the Hellcat, too -- and hated it. Fit/finish was poor compared to the SAS: the blade on the trigger was very stiff/pronounced; trigger takeup was long; the magazine was so loose it rattled when inserted in the pistol; and I couldn't stand the cup&ball Glock knock-off sights. (Glock's rectangular cup is superior.) The only positive thing I can say about the Hellcat is that its trigger break is at least somewhat crisp compared to the mushy SAS trigger break.
 

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Had a Hellcat in my hands today at the gun show.

Utterly meh. Just another polymer framed pistol in an over saturated market with nothing to recommend it over the competition. Springfield's polymer Croatian pistols have never done anything for me, and this one continues the trend. I just do not see the appeal.
 

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My SAS has been sent in to get coated.....
Out of curioisity - coated with what? I know Robar closed its doors, but that still leaves nickel boron coating, ferritic nitrocarburizing (nitride), parkerization, and what I loosely call 'paint' even though it's got a baking/drying component to it (i.e. Durakote, Cerakote, etc.) … as well as a few less popular options.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
My SAS has been sent in to get coated.....
Out of curioisity - coated with what? I know Robar closed its doors, but that still leaves nickel boron coating, ferritic nitrocarburizing (nitride), parkerization, and what I loosely call 'paint' even though it's got a baking/drying component to it (i.e. Durakote, Cerakote, etc.) … as well as a few less popular options.
TiN....Titanium Nitride.
 

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I agree. Those are significant attributes of the gun. It’s funny to read some of the reviews of the gun buy owners. They buy it and then complain about the slide release. It’s like buying a corvette and then complaining that it doesn’t have a back seat. The SAS is perfect for what it is.
I obviously missed a few posts re the SAS. Have SAS buyers been complaining? What features are they complaining about?
 

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It’s funny to read some of the reviews of the gun by owners. They buy it and then complain about the slide release. It’s like buying a corvette and then complaining that it doesn’t have a back seat.

The SAS is perfect for what it is.
THIS! I think it was P.T. Barnum who said “there’s a sucker born every minute.” Not quite sure why people rush out and buy something without first considering the pros and cons?

I appreciate the review, WaterDR. I still dislike the ports and ported barrel. Think I’ll wait and see if Sig brings that option out.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Again....I know it’s a controversial topic. Ultimately, any decision you make on a gun always has pros and cons. The major advantages with porting being reduced recoil and faster follow up shots. Another advantage is for a shooter to use a hotter round.

There are plenty of downsides too that need to be considered.

However, it’s also good to understand that only about 5% of the exhaust gases leave the port. 5% is a lot of it goes into your eyes.....but it’s also just 5%. And if your face is that close to the muzzle....ports or not.....you ain’t having a good day.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/gun-porting-defensive-handgun-port/
 

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After trying the trigger on the Hellcat I'll pass, I like the 365 a lot more. I'm hoping the manual safety is available on the XL soon..
 

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Since this is a Walther forum, I thought maybe some of you would have a chance to compare the Hellcat to the PPS or the PPQ SC????
 
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