[jefournier]

I took my PPQ to the range and shot about 200 rounds. I had more jams then I am comfortable to have in any firearm. I had double feed jams, and stove piping. I took the gun home threw in some dummy rounds and hand cycled the firearm. I noticed that with the magazine loaded with dummy rounds, the slide would get stuck when the slide had 1 cm left to be completely racked. I took the magazine out and did not have that issue when racking the slide without the magazine.
I then removed the slide and looked at the breach face. Placed a dummy round with the primer next to the breach face. Noticed that with vigorous shaking that the round would not fall out. The extractor seems to holding the round really tightly. On the opposite side of the breach face across from the extractor, i noticed friction marks (bare metal) to the point where there is small indentation. I think this is what is causing the malfunctions. Is there a way to adjust the extractor, or should I just replace it? I'm hoping I don't have to send off my ppq to Walther.

 

[imaoldfart]

Welcome to the forum Je. The PPQ is a fine weapon....I've got waaay more than one...4", 5", 9mm, 40, 45, M1, M2......that about covers it. With that said, all my Q's run the way they're supposed to.

However, its actually pretty common to have someone come to the forum, posting about failures to return to battery or other cycling issues. The first thing to check/ask is, what kind of ammo are you shooting....a new Q is not going to like weak ammo....so use good ammo. Next thing, is one's grip on the pistol....PPQ needs a pretty firm grip....limp wristing will result in some the problems you mentioned. Next, have you let anyone else shoot the pistol?

Now, with that out of the way, lets talk about hand racking the slide. That proves diddly. The pistol was never designed to operate at such a slow slide movement. PERIOD. If you want to load a round into the chamber, there are two ways to do it. Lock the slide back, insert loaded mag, thumb the slide lock, releasing the slide and letting it 'spring' forward stripping and loading a round into the chamber....and it should also make it all the way forward into battery. The other way to chamber a round is the same, except, not using the slide lock....in this case once the mag is inserted, grasp the rear of the slide, pulling it all the way to the rear, then 'cleanly' releasing the slide, letting it rip and strip.

I might also add that its that last 3/8" of forward slide movement where the sear pops up in front of the striker, holding the striker while the slide continues its way forward, which is actually compressing the striker spring. Keep in mind, its that last 3/8" where the striker spring is being compressed...in addition, the barrel starts to cam up at about the same point, which means, the face of the cartridge is starting to slide up the breech face. In addition, the rim of the case is starting to slide UP under the extractor, pushing it outward. SOOOOOOOOOOOO....lotta crap happening at the 3/8" inch point. AND letting the slide slowly move forward is a recipe for 'it ain't gonna work'. PERIOD. The slide needs momentum/velocity. It needs REAL ammo.....good ammo.....or if loading manually, you need to use the slide lock to release the slide or a good slingshot (meaning grasp the rear of the slide, pull er' all the way back then let that puppy go).

That's all for now....I've gotta go walk the dogs.

 

[jefournier]

Thank you for the response. I am shooting blazer brass 115 grain. I will try other ammo next time at the range. I don't think I am limp wristing it but I will let my buddies shoot it to see if they have the same problem.

So you where saying that in the last 3/8 of the forward slide movement the rim of cartridge is sliding up under the extractor pushing it outward. In the process of this occurring, is the rim of the cartridge supposed to rub up against the slide causing metal to wear away. That's what I am seeing. I will upload a picture later to illustrate what I;m trying to describe.

 

[imaoldfart]

Yep, I'd need to see a picture. BUT, the slide material is much stronger than the cartridge (brass/aluminum). So, if you're seeing any metal shavings or buildup, I'd suspect its coming from the case. But again, a picture is worth a thousand words.

As a test, you can use a dummy round....put it in the chamber. Place the slide all the way forward, into battery. NOW, gently/slowly pull the slide back and WATCH what's happening. When you see the barrel/chamber drop down to its lowest point (that's about the 3/8" mark, take your hands off the slide. Did it go all the way back (forward) into battery? Nope. So, with the slide sitting there about 1/8" or so out of battery, use your thumbnail and very carefully push IN of the rear of the extractor. OOPS, were you ready for that? The slide should have immediately shot forward into full battery.

 

[jefournier]

In the center of the image you will see the metal wearing away on the opposite side of the extractor. There is a small indentation.

 

[imaoldfart]

In the center of the image you will see the metal wearing away on the opposite side of the extractor. There is a small indentation.

Here's you picture....blown up. I'm sorry, but it's not REAL clear....or maybe it just my CSS acting up. I can't believe brass or aluminum ammo would gouge a steel slide. You're not shooting steel cased ammo are you?

Try cleaning that area of the slide....use a good brass cleaner and maybe a toothbrush. I'm thinking/hoping that poop will clean up/off.

After cleanup, try some different ammo too.

 

[Kar98]

Thank you for the response. I am shooting blazer brass 115 grain...

Blazer brass 115 should be fine. Pretty much just about anything as long as it's not Russian

 

[jefournier]

No steel cartridges. Just brass and the dummy rounds made of nickel. Im assuming the gauging of the slide then is not normal so I will be contacting WALTHER tomorrow. Its not gunk I can clearly see an indentation in the slide. Thank you for your quick responses.

 

[imaoldfart]

OK, agreed....if the slide is being gouged, then without a doubt, contact Walther. Good luck, and let us know what they say.

 

[Caine]

Assuming you are not having an issue with the practice round inserting into the chamber. One thing you might want to look at is the difference between the practice round and the Blazer round. Check the length of the case (max. 0.754” ) as this is what determines proper cartridge seating. Also check the overall length of the cartridge (max. 1.168” ). These 2 checks are to insure that the cartridge is properly seated in the chamber. If you don’t have the means to accurately measure these dimensions, you can also remove the barrel and drop a round in the breach and visually check that it is fully seated. You can also drop a spent case in to check the depth of the breach but keep in mind a spent case has expanded some after being fired.

By the looks of the brass left on the face of the slide you have a great deal of friction between the base of the cartridge and the slide face. Use a brass brush to remove the brass on the face of the slide. To continue to shoot it with that much build up of brass just makes the problem worse.

OF is right, in about the last 3/8” of forward slide travel the barrel begins rotating up and the base of the case slides behind the extractor. Look at your picture again and notice that the brass residue runs somewhat vertically on the face of the slide or from bottom up. There is obvious hard friction between the base of the case and the slide face. This can pretty much only happen during the forward cycle of the slide as the spent case is pulled straight back during the rearward movement until the case clears the barrel. A couple of reasons for this much friction could be the case, overall cartridge being too long, or the breach depth in the barrel not deep enough. Also the gap between the ejector and the face of the slide being too narrow to allow the cartridge base to properly slide behind it.

I would confirm the cartridge dimensions first as that can be remedied by changing brands. The other possibilities requires sending the gun back to Walther.

Hope this helps.

 

[balance]

I had double feed jams, and stove piping.

Are you sure you had double feed malfunctions?

Explain the malfunctions that were happening on your pistol, in detail please.

I noticed that with the magazine loaded with dummy rounds, the slide would get stuck when the slide had 1 cm left to be completely racked.

Completely normal if you were racking the slide slowly.

Were you?

I then removed the slide and looked at the breach face. Placed a dummy round with the primer next to the breach face. Noticed that with vigorous shaking that the round would not fall out.

This is a good thing.

If you ever run across a pistol that has the cartridge just fall out from under the extractor in the same circumstances, that is when you need to look for a fix.

On the opposite side of the breach face across from the extractor, i noticed friction marks (bare metal) to the point where there is small indentation. I think this is what is causing the malfunctions.

On the opposite side of the extractor, on the breechface, there is a "guide" to help the rim of the cartridge slide into and underneath the extractor hook while the slide is cycling. It is completely normal for that to be there, and no amount of use should allow for a notch that size to show up on the slide, anywhere. All of the PPQ pistols I've seen have this "guide", and plenty of other models from other manufacturers have it as well.

You can take the slide off of the pistol, and try sliding a cartridge up the breechface. It should be pretty easy to see why that notch is there. Notice how it helps guide the rim under the extractor. Especially when you realize that when the cartridge is feeding into the chamber during cycling, it isn't always feeding directly perpendicular to the breechface.

It also helps during ejection. As the barrel tilts, the rim of the cartridge drops down the breechface, and when the casing hits the ejector, that notch can help so that the rim of the cartridge does not impact that side of the breechface on its way out.

I'm hoping I don't have to send off my ppq to Walther.

I doubt that you do.

From what I'm hearing (given that you aren't really getting double feed malfunctions), I believe this is an issue that is due to either weak ammunition, a weak grip, a strong recoil spring, or some combination of the three. It takes a few hundred rounds for the springs in the pistol to take a set. Until that point, they will be stronger than normal, and stronger springs can cause the issues you are having.

I'd suggest trying 124gr or 147gr ammunition the next time, with a tight grip, and see if the issues don't go away. Maybe let someone else at the range shoot it to test this as well. In my experience, after a few hundred rounds, these pistols will shoot anything that's not steel cased, and with any amount of grip tension.

Good luck and please keep us informed. How much experience do you have with pistols?

 

[DavidS]

I had some time just now and snapped a couple of pictures from my PPQs (both 9mm).

First one is from the 4" M1, date code BB (2011). Second one is from the 5" M1, date code BH (2017).

They both show brass markings. Also, they both have a sort of rounded "notch", although the two are slightly different. As Balance just explained, this is normal and guides the next round into position.

Dave

 

[jefournier]

Ok so the indentation is normal it looks like the other pictures that were posted, and now that I look at the slide more closely, there is brass shaving there. My concern is that the extractor is holding the rim of the cartridge to tight hence leaving all the brass shavings on the guide. When I insert the dummy round or blazer brass, the cartridge rim does not slide in behind the extractor easily. I have to apply some pressure.

Are the brass shaving normal after a trip to the range?

I would not say I am an expert by any means, but I have done a fair amount of pistol shooting with family and friends. This is my first time owning a hand gun.


The double jam if memory serves correct looked like there was a round in the barrel and another round was being inserted from the magazine. The magazine would not drop. I had to turn the gun upside down to drop out the extra round and then rack the slide.

I measured the dummy round and blazer brass.

Dummy round
Length: 1.114"
Width: .386"

Blazer Brass
Length:1.138"
Width:.388"

I will hold of on calling Walther until I get to the range and try some other ammo and get a few more hundred rounds threw with 124 or 147 grain. Any ammo in particular you guys recommend.

I got a brass brush and I will get the brass shaving off the guide as well. I really appreciate the help guys.

 

[imaoldfart]

The accumulation of brass on the breech face and the corner/edge seem to be excessive for only 200 rounds. Again, I'm wondering about the specific ammo....maybe a little out of spec....too long....etc.

Without a doubt, all the brass needs to be cleaned off the slide. Flaking of brass is normal as there's a lot of scrapin' goin' on (Jerry Lee Lewis). Cartridges are pushed along the feed lips of the magazine (there's some scrapin'). Then there's that 3/8" point again where the barrel is being cammed up and the base of the cartridge is being slid up the breech face, as well as the rim of the case being pushed up underneath the extractor.....once again, a lot of scrapin' goin' on. So yeah, little flakes of brass are normal. The crap you've got building up on the breech face is NOT normal.

Clean er' up then try some different ammo....you can also perform the checks Caine mentioned in post no. 10.

 

[DavidS]

I have been using Speer Lawman 124gr lately, but Blazer should be OK too. I also had a bunch of S&B 124gr since it was on sale.

I’m assuming you’ve cleaned and lubed the pistol. Does the extractor seem to operate normally when you push on it? It’s not too difficult to remove the extractor and spring to check it, if you are handy. Does the claw on the extractor appear normal - no burrs or irregularities?

I’ve had a few brass shavings from time to time but never exactly pinpointed any issues. Could have been one particular magazine or box of ammo. Haven’t had this re-occur lately.

Where are you located? Maybe another PPQ owner is nearby?

Good luck,
Dave

 

[WaterDR]

These issues are pretty hard to fix over the web. Better seen in person.

I am with others...clean it, lube it good and make sure you are not limp wristing. No one ever admits doing it but we have all seen it happen.

Regardless, I am inclined to think something is not right with the gun.

One easy trick is to store it with the chamber open to stretch the spring a bit.

Good luck.

 

[balance]

My concern is that the extractor is holding the rim of the cartridge to tight hence leaving all the brass shavings on the guide. When I insert the dummy round or blazer brass, the cartridge rim does not slide in behind the extractor easily. I have to apply some pressure.

I'd say this is normal.

Are the brass shaving normal after a trip to the range?

Brass marks and unburnt powder residue on the pistol can be considered normal.

The double jam if memory serves correct looked like there was a round in the barrel and another round was being inserted from the magazine. The magazine would not drop. I had to turn the gun upside down to drop out the extra round and then rack the slide.

If you are remembering this right, and there was in fact a double feed malfunction, then that is a guarantee that there is either a pistol or ammunition related problem. No amount of user error while shooting can cause a casing to stick in the chamber while another feeds into it.

What type of ammunition were you shooting when you had this double feed malfunction? Was the casing steel, brass, or aluminum? How often are the malfunctions occurring? Did the malfunctions all happen while using the same ammunition?

 

[Caine]

As much brass as you have on the breach face you should be able to see marks the spent cases. Also check the groove at the base for marks left by the ejector. As far as brass filings, I have several guns that exhibit that. I would say they are normal but you still have an inordinate amount or brass on the breach face. Over time that may go away but I would still try different ammo. I have reall go luck with Fiocchi and Sellier and Bellot. Both are cleaner burning than Blazer or Winchester.

 

[Wolfierules907]

As much brass as you have on the breach face you should be able to see marks the spent cases. Also check the groove at the base for marks left by the ejector. As far as brass filings, I have several guns that exhibit that. I would say they are normal but you still have an inordinate amount or brass on the breach face. Over time that may go away but I would still try different ammo. I have reall go luck with Fiocchi and Sellier and Bellot. Both are cleaner burning than Blazer or Winchester.

I've had zero issues with Blazer, or any CCI flavor, but agree, if can find for same or less price, I go with S&B, Fiocci, Geco ammo. Lawman is GoldDot 'practice' load, hotter than Blazer and often same price or really close.