It seems common for folks to assume the velocity on the box means something in regard to short barrel pistols. Didn't know if you had chronographed those from a P22 or some other pistol. The velocity on the boxes are out of rifle barrels which of course is higher, much higher than a 3.4" barrel. BallisticsByTheInch provides some velocities of common .22 ammo using different barrel lengths. The shorter the barrel...the slower. A P22 is used as one of the test pistols.

I've also found that there is a good deal of difference regarding how fast a round gets off the blocks. CCI Mini Mags and Rem goldens pop out of a P22 with a similar recoil. Other rounds don't have the same snap and some won't cycle the slide regardless of the velocity on the box. I talked to a couple of companies about this and they said there were too many variables....primer, powder, age of the ammo, etc. My suppressed 5" pistol runs fine on about anything except CCI Velocitors. Probably the most powerful .22 LR round. I'm not sure why. Too much slide rebound speed? Too much blowback pressure? 1917

 

Well the standard velocity ones from Winchester listed at 1255 my semi auto rifles don't like and these they do. Occasional FTE aka stovepipe. Even my p22 does the same. But the ones listed as 1300 fps I have no issues in either. And besides you are not talking to a rookie. I might be relatively new on here but I have been shooting for over 60 years.

 

Just a note to anyone that's relatively new on this forum....1917 IS the authority on the P22. He's like E. F. Hutton, when 1917 talks, people listen.

Advertised velocity and actual velocity out of a firearm can be very different.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

 

Just a note to anyone that's relatively new on this forum....1917 IS the authority on the P22. He's like E. F. Hutton, when 1917 talks, people listen.

Advertised velocity and actual velocity out of a firearm can be very different.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .22 Results

(statement of intent)

www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

I understand that but I don't need all of you saying that. I have been around long enough to know that. Read my previous posts. And I don't need to be talked down to.

 

Oh come on you guys...it's Friday....I think. Trying to get off to the farm four hours from here for more work there and some shooting. Twobits, sorry for the confusion. 1st I should not have answered 1935's comment on RGB's in a quote of your's. I was interested in your velocity but simply wanted to know where those numbers came from. In fifteen years of following these and other pistols on forums we of course run into all kinds of Members. Some know almost nothing, some are experts. Diagnosing pistol issues on the net is tricky because of this and not having the firearm in hand. Nothing can be done about it though. I've found over the past years that questions cannot be too specific. I mean, we get people showing up saying their P22 won't fire....and they have the safety on. The best response is suggest reading the manual and that at least you now know your safety works. So again, sorry for the confusion and I certainly hope you will not think I'm talking down to you. I try not to talk down to anyone. Certainly not on purpose. I'm familiar with most .22 ammo including the offerings from Winchester. What I'm least familiar with is the high end European stuff. Not sure I'm spending a dollar a round for ammo for a P22.

I had just recently dug into the marketing of semi auto vs rifle markings on packaging by various manufacturers. Some of the Forums have members that think it is all marketing baloney with not any real difference...others think there is a difference. In my opinion...only shooting will tell. And that old saying especially regarding .22 firearms of find what works in your firearm is especially true from my experience.

Picked up new O rings. I had some but they were a bit too thick, even oil wouldn't let the baffle fit back into the cylinder. I'm still laying off the suppressor though. I'm taking it to the farm and if I finish cleaning the clamshells I want to see if it has any effect on the poi vs unsuppressed. One thing for certain...I will be cleaning that suppressor more often and trying out some of that anti splatter. I had never heard of that product. We have stick and mig welders....but I don't use them. Wish I knew how to really weld. Just dragged one of the Bobcats back from the farm....6 hour drive....so I can have a small crack in one of the arms properly repaired.

Now for my real problem....I can't get my safe open. I have the correct combination but sometimes it does this....I want to get some more varieties of .22 ammo out including the compacted copper ones and another P22......I've only tried 30 times and sometimes it does this...gggggggrrrrrrr. My son is a locksmith among other talents and at times he can't get it to cooperate either. I might get the 12 gauge loaded with slugs out and blast the sucker open. I need to leave for the farm.....and can't get the dang safe open......arrrrrrrgh. 1917

 

Oh come on you guys...it's Friday....I think. Trying to get off to the farm four hours from here for more work there and some shooting. Twobits, sorry for the confusion. 1st I should not have answered 1935's comment on RGB's in a quote of your's. I was interested in your velocity but simply wanted to know where those numbers came from. In fifteen years of following these and other pistols on forums we of course run into all kinds of Members. Some know almost nothing, some are experts. Diagnosing pistol issues on the net is tricky because of this and not having the firearm in hand. Nothing can be done about it though. I've found over the past years that questions cannot be too specific. I mean, we get people showing up saying their P22 won't fire....and they have the safety on. The best response is suggest reading the manual and that at least you now know your safety works. So again, sorry for the confusion and I certainly hope you will not think I'm talking down to you. I try not to talk down to anyone. Certainly not on purpose. I'm familiar with most .22 ammo including the offerings from Winchester. What I'm least familiar with is the high end European stuff. Not sure I'm spending a dollar a round for ammo for a P22.

I had just recently dug into the marketing of semi auto vs rifle markings on packaging by various manufacturers. Some of the Forums have members that think it is all marketing baloney with not any real difference...others think there is a difference. In my opinion...only shooting will tell. And that old saying especially regarding .22 firearms of find what works in your firearm is especially true from my experience.

Picked up new O rings. I had some but they were a bit too thick, even oil wouldn't let the baffle fit back into the cylinder. I'm still laying off the suppressor though. I'm taking it to the farm and if I finish cleaning the clamshells I want to see if it has any effect on the poi vs unsuppressed. One thing for certain...I will be cleaning that suppressor more often and trying out some of that anti splatter. I had never heard of that product. We have stick and mig welders....but I don't use them. Wish I knew how to really weld. Just dragged one of the Bobcats back from the farm....6 hour drive....so I can have a small crack in one of the arms properly repaired.

Now for my real problem....I can't get my safe open. I have the correct combination but sometimes it does this....I want to get some more varieties of .22 ammo out including the compacted copper ones and another P22......I've only tried 30 times and sometimes it does this...gggggggrrrrrrr. My son is a locksmith among other talents and at times he can't get it to cooperate either. I might get the 12 gauge loaded with slugs out and blast the sucker open. I need to leave for the farm.....and can't get the dang safe open......arrrrrrrgh. 1917

Well if you were asking where those velocities came from then you are not familiar with this particular load from Winchester. The first I ever saw of them was last summer. The previous Winchester Wildcat loads were 40 grain plain lead at 1255fps. These are copper plated dynapoints at 1300fps. These are both published velocities. The later load was developed for semi auto.

 

Unfortunately. or perhaps not...there is no internet at the farm...so I won't be able to get back until Sunday night or Monday. Hope this rain clears out and the wind dies down. I'd like to report back on how some Wildcats group...but darned if you can find any .22 ammo around here presently.


Rest in peace Hank Aaron and thanks for all the great baseball. 1917

 

Got the suppressor spotless. Didn't shoot through it while at the farm. Rained the whole time....darnit. But, I was working on the kitchen cabinets, installing the copper plumbing and drain lines. That Kolher farm sink must have weighed 500 lbs. Not really, but felt that heavy. Tried to find some anti splatter material but options are limited where the farm is. Will get some here. Told some of the store guys what I was going to use it for and they were impressed that that might be a good idea. CLR will clean the internals spotless on this suppressor with no damage that I can see. I did get to shoot the 5" and 3'4" pistols. The 3.4" just isn't in the same category at the 5". It is fun to shoot though. I'm going to call for a 5" barrel for the QD pistol. Ha, I fired some Remington shorts but the groups were just so, so. I'm still agreeing with my thoughts on the P22 of 15 years ago. The 3.4" is fun to shoot...easy to field strip. That is kinda what this pistol is about. The 5" is more accurate but more difficult to field strip.

The CCI super high speed compressed copper rounds didn't return anything but average groups. CCI subsonic still had the bet groups. I did have one odditity...I found some old Eley ammo...not sure which...fired some five round groups and they were good...especially one....looked like four rounds went basically through the same hole.

Two things are wrong with my red dot.....there is a flare to the dot and it isn't dimming properly. In the past I could place a loop of tape over the sight and cause it to dim. For some reason that is no longer working. If the dot is too large and too bright it does not work well for target shooting at a distance. I photographed it. There is no flare....so, I'm thinking it is being caused by my glasses and the coatings that are on them. But, I took my glasses off and the flare is still there so this is going to take some study. Might be my eyes....but the main problem is that the don't won't dim on this particular one. The other one with the damaged lens from suppressed shooting doesn't flare but 50% or so of the clarity is gone.

They are going back to England for new glass. Next time I hope I have time to shoot some groups and then screw on the suppressor and see what change if any that causes. One thing for sure, as before I got the suppressor the pistol stays very clean. As some of you might remember years ago I cleaned, lubed and began firing to see how far the pistol would run without any further cleaning or lubing and without any issue on the gun's part. Twice I stopped at 3,000 rounds at a sitting. Thumbs sore, hungry and bit tired of shooting. If you ever do this....take a couple of loaders with you....you shoot while they load. 1917

 

Got the suppressor spotless. Didn't shoot through it while at the farm. Rained the whole time....darnit. But, I was working on the kitchen cabinets, installing the copper plumbing and drain lines. That Kolher farm sink must have weighed 500 lbs. Not really, but felt that heavy. Tried to find some anti splatter material but options are limited where the farm is. Will get some here. Told some of the store guys what I was going to use it for and they were impressed that that might be a good idea. CLR will clean the internals spotless on this suppressor with no damage that I can see. I did get to shoot the 5" and 3'4" pistols. The 3.4" just isn't in the same category at the 5". It is fun to shoot though. I'm going to call for a 5" barrel for the QD pistol. Ha, I fired some Remington shorts but the groups were just so, so. I'm still agreeing with my thoughts on the P22 of 15 years ago. The 3.4" is fun to shoot...easy to field strip. That is kinda what this pistol is about. The 5" is more accurate but more difficult to field strip.

The CCI super high speed compressed copper rounds didn't return anything but average groups. CCI subsonic still had the bet groups. I did have one odditity...I found some old Eley ammo...not sure which...fired some five round groups and they were good...especially one....looked like four rounds went basically through the same hole.

Two things are wrong with my red dot.....there is a flare to the dot and it isn't dimming properly. In the past I could place a loop of tape over the sight and cause it to dim. For some reason that is no longer working. If the dot is too large and too bright it does not work well for target shooting at a distance. I photographed it. There is no flare....so, I'm thinking it is being caused by my glasses and the coatings that are on them. But, I took my glasses off and the flare is still there so this is going to take some study. Might be my eyes....but the main problem is that the don't won't dim on this particular one. The other one with the damaged lens from suppressed shooting doesn't flare but 50% or so of the clarity is gone.

They are going back to England for new glass. Next time I hope I have time to shoot some groups and then screw on the suppressor and see what change if any that causes. One thing for sure, as before I got the suppressor the pistol stays very clean. As some of you might remember years ago I cleaned, lubed and began firing to see how far the pistol would run without any further cleaning or lubing and without any issue on the gun's part. Twice I stopped at 3,000 rounds at a sitting. Thumbs sore, hungry and bit tired of shooting. If you ever do this....take a couple of loaders with you....you shoot while they load. 1917

The flair that you are getting from your red dot could be astigmatism. My dot in mine looks like a oblong canted slightly to the left on top. Called manufacturer and they said it was astigmatism.

 

Arrrrgh....I'm afraid you might be correct. I am due for another eye exam shortly. Being 72 and having diabetes for 15 years or more doesn't help. I know glasses correct astigmatism.....I wonder can they correct this? 1917

 

Actually I was told the correction in the lenses is what causes the glare.

I'd have to say it is effecting mine. I can't see the small aim point clearly due to the dot that looks like a comet. Years and years ago I mounted a huge BSA red dot on the Walther bridge mount that you could purchase for a P22. Had ten setting for brightness. For target shooting I would have to turn the dot down to 2 or 3 setting. Any brighter and the dot would overwhelm seeing the target. On this last Shield dot, the dot just isn't clear and flares off to the 1 to 3 pm position. At 25M I can't really tell if I'm on target. I'm having to move off center, left right or up and down and then press the trigger when I think the main dot is over the aim point. If the dot was much dimmer and small and round....I'd be able to place it precisely. This is even from a bench with bags. Crosshairs on a scope....sharp as a tack. Like I said I removed my glasses and the flare was still there, even worse as I recall so unfortunately I think you are on to something about it being my eyes.....sure hope glasses can correct it. 1917

My reflex sight has 6 power settings and at lowest two the dot is still round at the rest they look like a comet as you described.

 

I stopped at 10 places last week and could not find even one round of .22 ammo, of any flavor. I'm tired of this hoarding. I have plenty but I wanted to try some different varieties and some of the Winchester Dynapoints again. As I recall these come in plain lead and copper wash. 1255 fps out of some rifle barrel. The lead are for plinking and the copper plated for semi auto. There was once a pretty good Ruger forum and the guys there swore by these rounds for their 10/22 rifles. The forum died in about 2007. It was the one where a Member determined that the original MK III with the steel loaded chamber indicator would fire a round if you banged the indicator into something solid....like the corner of your desk. The indicator of course pivoted off the rim of a rimfire cartridge, was all steel and the linkage was unforgiving if you whacked the section that stuck out the left side of the receiver. Ruger jumped on it prontol adding some plastic parts that would give. Always made me wonder how this could possibly have not be caught during testing. I've fired plenty of those but I can't say that I've seen the ones marked at 1,300 fps. I'd like to give them a test....but from what I see on the shelves, which is nothing, that might be a while. Walmart here has absolutely zero any kind of rifle or pistol ammo.

Twobits if you are getting 2" groups out of the 3.4" barrel at 20 yds....that is excellent. My two short barrels can't match it. Close....but not that good even out of the mechanical Ransom type rest. I have not fired any of the ammo you are recommending lately though. Will give it a test.....if I can find some. Not sure I've ever fired any of the 1,300 fps variety. High end target ammo is hard to find here.

On another topic....I could never get anyone to really bear down and test the accuracy of the 4.5" Ruger SR 22...here or at RimFireCentral. I might have purchased one if they were accurate...but no one ever came through. RimFireCentral is a .22 site if you haven't visited.. A really good group but the Forums will eat up all of your time. I posted a lot of my P22 work there before joining here. About six months ago I decided to drop out of some Forums due to the time spent...stayed here. 1917

 

I'll be interested in how you like the laser. I don't like them but that is just me. I have a Crimson Trace on a .45 and it works fine. I've shot P22s with the laser and while it seems accurate enough for some reason I just don't like aiming with one. Let us know how your's works out if you will. 1917

 

That is how I can shoot 2"groups at 20 yds from a rest.

 

I expect it will work fine. If these things can take the recoil of .22 and large center fire magnums while stuck on a slide....they must be tough. Red dots and lasers. What is the background you are using at 20 yds? I had trouble seeing the laser that was on the P22...of course it was a Walther brand as I recall so it might not have been that powerful. What reflex sight do you have if you don't mind my asking? 1917

 

Ade is brand of reflex and using white background with a green laser

 

Thanks Twobits...I remember looking into those and many others. The problem is most weight 3 oz or more including the ADE and without a base. The one I chose is 1/2 oz. But, it has a plastic lens with quartz hardening, auto dot brightness and has to e removed to replace the battery. The weight is great...but the polymer/quartz lens isn't worth a hoot as far as I'm concerned. Might work great way away from the ejection port or on a bolt action/pump but the blowback debris causes the lens to be easily damaged regardless of how careful you try to clean. I have camera lenses that cost over a couple of thousand so cleaning without damaging is important. But, they are glass and not plastic. Shield is going to put glass in for me. That will add a few grams to the weight. The P22 doesn't have an issue with cycling some additional weight with most ammo. Some of the target and weaker rounds won't cycle properly. Shield makes other models with a mounted battery removal system and dot brightness adjustments....but the weight of those goes up as well. This is all a learning curve with a P22 which really offers no options for mounting a red dot to the zinc slide. A custom mount fastened through the steel breech block has shown a lot of promise.. Over 10,000 rounds through the pistol with holes in the slide and the sight mounted. But, the darn plastic lenses are no good. Walther could fix this easily enough with a slight change to the slide.

I had one of those bridge mounts back in 2004 or so and it worked well but I didn't like it. Slide mounted and you don't have to re-zero with each cleaning. Thanks for the info. 1917

 

Walther sells a PPS with a Shield red dot....of course with a steel slide you can do a lot of things. Not to mention powerful cf ammo to cycle it. But the P22 is a whole nother can of worms. 1917

 

That is why I went with the laser mounted to picantty rail under the barrel.

 

A red dot sure looks good on a P22....too bad Walther makes mounting one so complicated. By that I mean...you gotta figure out something yourself. I report everything I learn to them....still needed; better breech face, aluminum slide, sight mount options, double leg main spring so the hammer isn't pressed on one side, tighter extractor. I have a QD model with the decocker...it works well but they dropped it in short order. I wonder why? It isn't of any real benefit as far as I'm concerned but it does work similar to a PP pistol.

Years ago Crete was spurring me on to make some ideas for the P22 come to life. Like a front blade out to the max sight limit for competition shooting. I took a small piece of aluminum channel, cut it to the correct length, drilled holes through it and into the forward portion of the slide. Taped the inside of the slide where the holes were then spread a gob of JBWeld. Cut a hole in the nose to receive a P22 front sight blade. Worked well. That contraption never came loose and i attribute that to the holes in aluminum and the slide. I forget the max distance allowed for the sights but it seems it was 8.5 inches.. There is a reason you can shoot a rifle more accurately. Longer sight radius. Oh well, onto more adventures with the P22...sure wish some options on ammo was available. There isn't any in B'ham that I can find. Back to the farm and a Covid shot Thursday morning...sure hope they run out of the long needles. I'll take mine on a sugar cube if they don't mind. BTW....I'm thinking I need a new .22 pistol and am thinking about what to get. Yepper, this is a terrible time but you never know what you might find. 1917

 

"...double leg main spring so the hammer isn't pressed on one side"

This is intriguing. I will take two, please.

 

Got a can of anti spatter for $8 from the welding shop. Guys were shooters but none had heard of using it for suppressors. Also got a can of spray anti seize copper something that looks really good. $16 for it. Found Winchester ammo for 5.5 cents a round so I stocked up. 222 box. The 235 round box was about $36.....duh, wonder which is the better bargain. Think it is marked 1280 fps, copper wash. Same round. Going to test that suppressor again and see if the stuff helps out with easy cleaning. Also put in some new O rings. That is likely to be a regular part of maintenance also along with regular cleaning of the pistol. Heading for the farm....there is no internet....barely any phone. But I can walk out of any door shooting and reports are that I didn't get any freeze damage to the pipes although the temp dropped to 9f one night. Ice storm took down the power lines so there was no electricity to run the central heat which was on 50f. I have a cure for all of that though and will install it when it arrives. You guys have a safe weekend. 1917

Went hiking up the mountains yesterday. This marks the spot where I was exhausted and had to turn around back in 1989. I was 39 then. Had been in a serious auto wreck and the meds I was taking were robbing all my energy. Now I can hike past it easily and at age 72. Of course I'm toting a lighter pistol now instead of that steel .45 of yesteryear but I've added 20 lbs of camera gear and water to the pack on my back. It is still uphill all the way to the top. The Appalachian mountains end in this large state park about a mile below my house. After paying to get in for 31 years....I learned this year that veterans get in free....now I'm making up for lost time.

 

Brill.

The copper-washed Winchester looks promising (from a rifle) and might work well in the P22: 50 at 200 - Page 90 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

 

Yeah, that is an interesting thread Crete. I've read the entire list....lot of real world info. 1917

 

I put 200 to 250 rounds through the suppressor. It came apart easily with a good coating of the anti splatter but it sure is dirty, the carbon is built up and it doesn't wash off or brush off. Will it clean easier than with nothing on the suppressor...I don't know yet. After cleaning I will try giving everything a spraying with the copper anti seize material. That seems to leave a nice coating but will the dirt still stick...????? There is only one way I know to check. So far, the best cleaning procedure for the internal components is an overnight soaking in CLR. It doesn't seem to have any effect on the steel components but it sure eats up carbon deposits. One thing seems certain...regular cleanings beat letting it go for a thousand rounds.
1917

 

Don't let my wife see this. CLR really melts the carbon debris off. I just pour the dirty liquid back into the container, let the dirt settle out and use it again. This went from green to black as soon as I moved the parts up and down in the liquid. I can't see that it harms any of the metal. I'll reverse ends soon. Don't get any of that CLR on French limestone counter tops either. They don't like it....sealed or not. 1917

 

Don't let my wife see this.

BWAWAWAWA......I've been there. 😂

 

As have I. Easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

 

A short dip in the CLR...an hour or so and any remaining carbon and dirt can be easily washed off under running water using a soft toothbrush. This thing is spotless. I'm going to give it a light spray of anti splatter and then a coating of the copper anti seize stuff. What would be ideal is to be able to simply wash the stuff right off with no CLR. The CLR does seem to slowly effect the color of the end caps a bit but color only. I don't see any deterioration of the metal. Threads are spotless as is the core. There was easily a teaspoon full of hard, black carbon in the bottom of that glass. 1917

 

Coating of anti splatter followed by a coating of copper anti seize. I'm not sure this copper stuff will dry. Will see and will see this weekend if the two make the dirt easy to remove with no CLR. Back to the farm for our second Covid vaccination, some house work and some shooting as always. I need a good scope for my CZ .22 rifle. Bought it two years ago...haven't fired it once. Beautiful little rifle. 1917

 

1917... Does that CLR hack up the finish on your can in any way??

 

I don't put the outer sleeve in it since there is no build up on that part. Wear and tear is slowly removing the finish of the exterior of the can. I don't really care as long as the thing works. The rear cap seems to have lost a little of the darkness of the original finish. It goes in the dip. The muzzle end of the core also seems to have some loss to the original black finish. The muzzle end of the core also gets lead and debris on it from the gas blow out. Right now it is covered in what I didn't wipe off of the copper stuff. Apparently there is quite a bit of copper in it. I really coats my fingers but is easily washed off with soap and water. I'll get a good photo of how the finish is deteriorating on the nose of the can the next time I clean everything off. 1917

 

I kind of figured there would be edge wear of sorts from the blow out and the debris. Guess the outer shell gets scraped and bumped on things. Makes sense.

Knowing that (and also knowing the legal implications of this next thought, so no flak please), and if I had enough money to just equip my garage with some machinery and just make myself a can. Materials and time and tooling (minus machinery costs) alone would be a fraction of the cost of a commercially available can. If it is going to get bumped, finish worn, or beat, etc., I could just make a replacement.

 

No, that wouldn't be legal. The outer shell has a serial number. If you want a suppressor....step one is to purchase one. The reason for this is to create ownership of the device and serial number. But, you can't take possession so the shop and you will fill out all of the paper work to be submitted including fingerprints, the serial number, $200 payment for the tax stamp, etc., etc. Some months later the gun shop will call and say your tax stamp has come in and you can drop by and pick up the suppressor. There are several options for ownership. You can easily dig into the details on the net if you want the entire story.

On the other hand there are devices sold that will thread onto the end of your barrel which allows you to screw on a new oil filter. The first shot punches a hole in alignment with the exiting round. They work well if you tube videos can be believed.

you tube oil can suppressor video - Search Videos

www.bing.com

If you wanted to protect a nice looking suppressor the best advice would be to just take care of it. Several of my pistols look brand new after occasional shooting during the past 10 to 15 years. P22s get drug around, carried through dust and dirt, shot a lot, laid on the truck floor, truck bed, ground....if the suppressor is attached...so be it. I suppose you could also wrap the cylinder to protect it. They do get hot, even on .22's, when fired rapidly.

I caught a Silencer Co SS Sparrow on sale for $229 a few years ago. Perhaps Ky Gun Co. I bought it, they shipped it to a class three dealer here. We completed the paperwork. They held the suppressor. So, suppressor $229 and tax stamp $200. Nine month wait. You could always put a protective sleeve over the entire part. They are very simple. Cleaning is one issue....the dirt they blow back into your pistol is another. 1917