[Caleb]

I recently got my P99 and I LOVE it. I've never had a gun that fit my hand like this. Anyway, I was field stripping it for a good cleaning and I noticed that the guide rod is about the most flimsy piece of plastic I have ever seen. Does anyone make a replacement for it or has anyone had problems with theirs? I didn't have any malfunctions with my gun, its just that the piece seemed kind of weak for such a solid gun.

 

[tabor]

S&W made some aluminum ones, but you can't buy them. You see, S&W only made them to show that they were less durable than the stock ones (also, they were not fluted).

 

[P88]

Never had a problem with any of mine.

 

[Nocturnal]

I think they made it this way for a reason. I haven't heard of any failures on this board yet. If only they made the magazine floorplates of the same plastic

 

[2ndLtMiller]

You can always get an upgrade to metal here Springco USA for about $70.00. It's an invaluable upgrade if you have a .40 S&W P99, but if you have a 9mm P99 you should just stick with the stock guide rod. My two cents.

 

[2ndLtMiller]

Here is the correct URL: http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html

 

[cahillxd]

Most people are still ignorant to the strength of modern plastics. The frame is made of plastic too! Relax and enjoy a great gun.

 

[stunksinatl]

Well said cahillxd.

I haven't had a lick of a problem with mine, and like Nocturnal said, if only they made the the magazine baseplates out of the same stuff!

-stunks

 

[Nocturnal]

Quote[/b] (2ndLtMiller @ May 17 2005,1:35)]You can always get an upgrade to metal here Springco USA for about $70.00. It's an invaluable upgrade if you have a .40 S&W P99, but if you have a 9mm P99 you should just stick with the stock guide rod. My two cents.

Why do you call the upgrade 'invaluable'? Curious what the measurable improvements are that you noticed. I haven't heard of anyone breaking this piece yet so in what other way is it beneficial?

 

[2ndLtMiller]

As you probably already know the P99s chambered in .40 S&W have the same internals and frame as the 9mm version. The .40 also has a heavier slide than the 9mm, this heavier slide has more inertia when moving backward so it hits the frame with more force. The Springco USA spring on the .40s stops the slide from smacking the frame as it does with the lighter stock 9mm spring. Springco markets their guide rod as a recoil reducer and I have noticed reduction in muzzle flip, but not enough to justify the $70.00, but I believe that the long term benefits of reduced stress on the weapon are invaluable. Though I don't think this is even an issue on the 9mm, so like I said why not stick with stock on the 9s.

If this doesn't map at all let me know, I'm willing to reevaluate this one.

 

[stunksinatl]

I can understand how the recoil reducer can slow the slide, but I was under the impression that the whole reason the .40 slide was heavier was to allow using the same internals (guide rod, etc.)

In which case, I would think the forces balance out and wear between the two calibers would be similar.

I'm not a ballistics expert, but just my thoughts...

-stunks

 

[MLB]

I was unhappy with the plastic guide rod too.  I posted a review of the Sprinco recoil reducer (although I just was interested in the metal rod) here:
here

 

[Nocturnal]

The spring on the 40 is the same as on the 9mm? That's odd. I know the slide is heavier and for good reasons too, of course. It stands to reason Walther would put a heavier spring in there too. As far as recoil reduction goes, the energy that the round generates doesn't change with a different recoil spring. I suppose the gun could feel less 'snappy' if the new spring prevents the slide from slamming into the slide stop. The total amount of energy you need to absorb is the same. The impact curve (for lack of a better word) could be smoothed out though.

 

[2ndLtMiller]

I don't think that anyone was suggesting that "the energy that the round generates" would somehow magically change because of a new recoil spring, rather I think they (including myself) were suggesting that more of the energy generated was absorbed by the spring (and probably turned into thermal or harmonic energy, not that it matters much) rather than the frame. I ran this one by my physicist buddy so I'm fairly confident that it's correct. Because there is a heavier slide there is more inertia for the 9mm fame and spring (same spring 9mm/.40) to deal with on the .40 cal versions of the P99.


The physics behind it looks like this:
A property of mass is its resistance to a change of velocity. This is quantified by Newtons second law which says that the acceleration is:

Proportional to the net external force.
Inversely proportional to its mass.
In the direction of the force.
In other words:

F=ma

where:

F = net force (as generated by round)
m = mass (weight of slide)
A = acceleration

 

[Nocturnal]

OK, this is a little silly. I know high school physics and a lot of physics beyond that. Not that you would know that I know

I'll let the discussion end here as I don't think delving into physics on this forum is the way to keep the discussion civil.

 

[2ndLtMiller]

Well put Nocturnal, I've got enough college physics (trying to remember 200 and 300 level) and enough physicist and engineer friends to keep this debate going for a long time (and it probably would get very unfriendly at some point). I think that's one of the essential qualities in a good debater, knowing when to say enough! Anyway, I wasn't trying to show anyone up I was just trying to my back up my reasoning in a simple to comprehend fashion, something any trained researcher would do.
So you obviously have some kind of either engineering or physics background, what's your take on the ballistics of the 9mm vs the .40?

 

[Nocturnal]

You mean differences other than bullet weight, diameter and velocities? For me the choice was pretty easy as I can only pack 10 rounds so I figured I'd better get the bigger of the two. If I could have large cap mags I might be tempted by the 9mm. Certainly 9mm is a lot cheaper to shoot but I don't care too much about that.

 

[New to Walther]

When I install my guide rod it bends upwards since the plastic is so flimsy.  It hooks onto the slide on the bottom part of that circle at the end of the rod, so when the spring pushes it makes the rod bend upwards (it bends out of the slide).

Since the rod with spring around it is bending out, it gets caught when reinstalling the slide.  I can hear and feel as I have the pull hard to get past 4 or 5 loops of the spring before I can continue sliding the slide on all the way.

I really don't care how strong the plastic is or how ignorant I am to modern plastics, this flimsy plastic rod has proven to be a problem for me.  
I don't espscially like my HK USP because the extra time involved in taking it down versus other pistols, now the Walther has unneeded time in trying to get the thing back together, nevermind the damage that might be done from having to jam and rip the slide on. I've never seen a rod as flimsy as this.

 

[Nocturnal]

I think Walther chose the material for a reason other than cost savings. I suspect the flexibility is needed for proper operation of the gun. The bending of the rod is a non-issue when field stripping as it's again fully supported when the gun is assembled. Perhaps the flexibility allows the barrel to seat better in the slide, allowing for better accuracy. Just guessing of course.

If I'd heard of breaking guide rods I'd feel differently but since no one has reported that yet I tend to think the part is fine. Even if the only reason is weight savings.

I've never timed my field strip and re-assembly speed but I never felt the guiderod slowed me down. It doesn't seem to catch anywhere but I'll pay attention to it next time. Is your's a 9mm? Perhaps there is a bit of a difference there with the .40 that I have.

 

[New to Walther]

Quote[/b] (Nocturnal @ May 18 2005,4:04)]I think Walther chose the material for a reason other than cost savings. I suspect the flexibility is needed for proper operation of the gun. The bending of the rod is a non-issue when field stripping as it's again fully supported when the gun is assembled. Perhaps the flexibility allows the barrel to seat better in the slide, allowing for better accuracy. Just guessing of course.

If I'd heard of breaking guide rods I'd feel differently but since no one has reported that yet I tend to think the part is fine. Even if the only reason is weight savings.

I've never timed my field strip and re-assembly speed but I never felt the guiderod slowed me down. It doesn't seem to catch anywhere but I'll pay attention to it next time. Is your's a 9mm? Perhaps there is a bit of a difference there with the .40 that I have.

Yes, mine is a 9mm.

Quote[/b] ]The bending of the rod is a non-issue when field stripping as it's again fully supported when the gun is assembled.

As I stated above, it is certainly an issue with my P99 QA. I've only had it for a short time, but this is something that I've noticed everytime I try to reinstall the slide. The spring is catching on the takedown pin, which is why it doesn't catch when I am stripping the pistol (because I have that pin pulled down).

I wish I had a digicam to post a pic of it, you can clearly see how the guide rod is "rainbowing" out of the slide. I figured it was a faulty rod until I saw this thread.