German Walthers
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Seems the German made PP and PPK pistols are a thing of the past!! So I would guess that most are now "safe queens" or recreational shooters rather than day to day carry guns.
The later US made Interarms pistols are not as finely finished as some of their Euro counterparts, but every one I have examined has been of very good quality. They are still around in good numbers and at good prices. The shop where I work just sold a like new Stainless PPK/S for $400. Sadly it was only in the case for about a half hour before it was scooped up, I didn't even get a chance to look at it until after it was sold.
The absolutely nicest carry PPK I have ever seen belongs to a forum member, mm6mm6, a stainless pistol he had expertly engraved. That is not only a practical carry gun, but a beautiful looker as well.
I think the Interarms are your best buy for shooter/carry piece.
The later US made Interarms pistols are not as finely finished as some of their Euro counterparts, but every one I have examined has been of very good quality. They are still around in good numbers and at good prices. The shop where I work just sold a like new Stainless PPK/S for $400. Sadly it was only in the case for about a half hour before it was scooped up, I didn't even get a chance to look at it until after it was sold.
The absolutely nicest carry PPK I have ever seen belongs to a forum member, mm6mm6, a stainless pistol he had expertly engraved. That is not only a practical carry gun, but a beautiful looker as well.
I think the Interarms are your best buy for shooter/carry piece.
I agree with 153. The value of any German or West German made Walther will be retained if it stays in the condition it was purchased in. I would not carry a PPK from across the Atlantic Ocean if it meant the pistol would suffer visible wear.
I'm all for shooting the guns. That's what they were meant to do and as long as it's properly cleaned afterwards, there should be no depreciation of value.
A mint W. German PPK from the mid-1960's is quite valuable today. But if it started to get edge wear on its blued finish from being carried, that would be a bad thing.
Stainless steel is much more forgiving when carried (but not when dropped or scraped!)...I've carried my Interarms PPK for over 19 years now. The plastic grips have a couple little dings but the steel is fine. I had it engraved but I still carry it almost daily (when I'm not carrying something else).
153, you're say such nice things!
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I'm all for shooting the guns. That's what they were meant to do and as long as it's properly cleaned afterwards, there should be no depreciation of value.
A mint W. German PPK from the mid-1960's is quite valuable today. But if it started to get edge wear on its blued finish from being carried, that would be a bad thing.
Stainless steel is much more forgiving when carried (but not when dropped or scraped!)...I've carried my Interarms PPK for over 19 years now. The plastic grips have a couple little dings but the steel is fine. I had it engraved but I still carry it almost daily (when I'm not carrying something else).
153, you're say such nice things!
That shoulda been: 153, you say such nice things!
(Sometimes my fingies get too fast for the keyboard.....)
Lately I've been carrying my new (to me) 1986 HK P7. I'm waiting for a Rafter holster made of sharkskin so for now I just stick it in my waistband.
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(Sometimes my fingies get too fast for the keyboard.....)
Lately I've been carrying my new (to me) 1986 HK P7. I'm waiting for a Rafter holster made of sharkskin so for now I just stick it in my waistband.
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For what it's worth, I think that the so-called "problems" with the S&W version of the PPK and the PPK/S have been, for want of a better word, exaggerated on some forums. No question that folks who pick up a bad one have the right to squawk and squawk loudly; I'd do the same. Trouble is, you aren't much motivated to balance or offset that squawking if your own gun works as it's supposed to, however; so in many cases, all you ever hear is the squeaky wheel.
I have a lovely stainless PPK/S S&W version that is a flawless performer. It was spot-on accurate out of the box, and it does everything that it's supposed to do every time it's called upon. I'm happy to carry it with confidence and often find myself recommending it to others who are looking for a reliable concealed piece. It would be a mistake, in my opinion, to write it off simply because it is made by Smith & Wesson. Last time I looked, S&W made a damn fine firearm. Still does, comes to that.
For what it's worth, I think that the so-called "problems" with the S&W version of the PPK and the PPK/S have been, for want of a better word, exaggerated on some forums. No question that folks who pick up a bad one have the right to squawk and squawk loudly; I'd do the same. Trouble is, you aren't much motivated to balance or offset that squawking if your own gun works as it's supposed to, however; so in many cases, all you ever hear is the squeaky wheel.
I have a lovely stainless PPK/S S&W version that is a flawless performer. It was spot-on accurate out of the box, and it does everything that it's supposed to do every time it's called upon. I'm happy to carry it with confidence and often find myself recommending it to others who are looking for a reliable concealed piece. It would be a mistake, in my opinion, to write it off simply because it is made by Smith & Wesson. Last time I looked, S&W made a damn fine firearm. Still does, comes to that.
Why did you chose the PPK/S over another 380 (assuming it is) when a similar sized 9mm can be found?
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mm6mm6,
That is a very nice example of the P7. If the tension on the "front grip safety" was a little easier I would love that pistol. I got one when they first came out, but just couldn't adapt to the drill. The fellow I sold it to loved it, carried it for many years and even won a local "combat" match with it back in the 1980's. They are a very nicely made pistol and a real bargain in the surplus version.
Searcher451,
The new S&W PPK's seem to be a mixed bag. I agree about the "squeaky wheel" syndrome, but I have seen half a dozen in the shop for various problems, in addition to the problems posted on this forum. It's not like the endless ILS debate with respect to the S&W revolvers, few would argue that was not a a stupid and politically motivated addition to the product. Otherwise S&W quality is still d**n good!
With respect to the PPK, S&W has some real quality issues to overcome with this model. What I find absolutely incredible is the quality of the S&W "Walther" versus their other firearms. S&W has the revolver game locked up, and even today with all the unsavory changes to the product line, the S&W revolvers are second to none. The S&W line in autos really shines compared to the Walther.
I think we would all be happier if Walther would either start making the PPK on their own here in the States, or just set up another Import Company and forget about the partnership wth S&W.
Maybe they should work a good deal with Earl. We all know he has a real appreciation and respect for the Walther brand.
In the meantime I would be real cautious about buying the S&W PPK, at the very least I would give it a good look over before putting down some green.
That is a very nice example of the P7. If the tension on the "front grip safety" was a little easier I would love that pistol. I got one when they first came out, but just couldn't adapt to the drill. The fellow I sold it to loved it, carried it for many years and even won a local "combat" match with it back in the 1980's. They are a very nicely made pistol and a real bargain in the surplus version.
Searcher451,
The new S&W PPK's seem to be a mixed bag. I agree about the "squeaky wheel" syndrome, but I have seen half a dozen in the shop for various problems, in addition to the problems posted on this forum. It's not like the endless ILS debate with respect to the S&W revolvers, few would argue that was not a a stupid and politically motivated addition to the product. Otherwise S&W quality is still d**n good!
With respect to the PPK, S&W has some real quality issues to overcome with this model. What I find absolutely incredible is the quality of the S&W "Walther" versus their other firearms. S&W has the revolver game locked up, and even today with all the unsavory changes to the product line, the S&W revolvers are second to none. The S&W line in autos really shines compared to the Walther.
I think we would all be happier if Walther would either start making the PPK on their own here in the States, or just set up another Import Company and forget about the partnership wth S&W.
Maybe they should work a good deal with Earl. We all know he has a real appreciation and respect for the Walther brand.
In the meantime I would be real cautious about buying the S&W PPK, at the very least I would give it a good look over before putting down some green.
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I understand the caution regarding the S&W PPK and the PPK/S. I've read a number of those posts myself, just like everyone else who has an interest in either the gun itself or in the Walther name. I'm sure that the squeaky wheels out there have had legitimate complaints. I'm equally sure that those legitimate complaints were addressed by S&W's customer service team, once they were notified, and that the guns now work like they are supposed to work.
I've got a German Walther, an Interarms Walther, and an S&W Walther. I admire them all, though I have to admit that there's nothing quite like the original German model. It's an exquisite and beautiful firearm. It's also a safe queen and won't be fired again in my lifetime. The Interarms looks great -- exactly like the PPK is supposed to look -- and it shoots well. But if you don't pay attention, as in REALLY pay attention, it can and will bite the hand that feeds it. The S&W, on the other hand, does not bite (gotta love that beavertail -- and yes, I know, it doesn't quite look like the original). It performs flawlessly for me, time and again, and the extra round in the PPK/S gives me, well, one extra round.
Maybe I got lucky; maybe everyone who bought an S&W Walther to shoot and has found that it works as advertised got lucky. But I've got to believe that far more of them work than don't and those that have problems are fixable once they are brought to the attention of S&W. The bottom line for me is that I wouldn't trade mine for much of anything, Sig included (and I admire the craftsmanship that Sig firearms bring to the table). If that makes me a Walther man, then I can live with that. Walther, after all, has made and designed a hell of a fine firearm for a long, long time now.
I've got a German Walther, an Interarms Walther, and an S&W Walther. I admire them all, though I have to admit that there's nothing quite like the original German model. It's an exquisite and beautiful firearm. It's also a safe queen and won't be fired again in my lifetime. The Interarms looks great -- exactly like the PPK is supposed to look -- and it shoots well. But if you don't pay attention, as in REALLY pay attention, it can and will bite the hand that feeds it. The S&W, on the other hand, does not bite (gotta love that beavertail -- and yes, I know, it doesn't quite look like the original). It performs flawlessly for me, time and again, and the extra round in the PPK/S gives me, well, one extra round.
Maybe I got lucky; maybe everyone who bought an S&W Walther to shoot and has found that it works as advertised got lucky. But I've got to believe that far more of them work than don't and those that have problems are fixable once they are brought to the attention of S&W. The bottom line for me is that I wouldn't trade mine for much of anything, Sig included (and I admire the craftsmanship that Sig firearms bring to the table). If that makes me a Walther man, then I can live with that. Walther, after all, has made and designed a hell of a fine firearm for a long, long time now.
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488 Posts
I think those who have legitimate complaints about any firearm on any forum will be in greater proportion to the total population of problem guns since they have an urgent purpose in seeing if they can get it fixed. My blue .380 S&W PPK has been fine for 650 rounds, and serves well as an affordable non-biting BUG.
My German PPK/S is over 25 years old and gets carried quite a bit in hot weather. It's carried in an Alessi Talon+ and holster wear doesn't amount to a lot.
I haven't compared it to a S&W PPK but it does seem nicer than the many Interarms I've shot and handled. The stainless Interarms guns are some I would definitely consider but the few blued guns I've seen weren't nearly as nice as the German guns.
Mine has never jammed. It has seen mostly FMJ but my Cor-Bon and Golden Saber carry ammo have been run through it a bunch.
Mine still looks great and I see where some members don't carry the older guns. Is this for PPK only? Would this include the older German PPK/S'?
I carry the PPK/S because it is smaller than my Glock 19. Under a T-shirt with shorts it does hide better. Besides, I can't think of a pistol that is a more natural extension of my hand than my PPK/S.
I haven't compared it to a S&W PPK but it does seem nicer than the many Interarms I've shot and handled. The stainless Interarms guns are some I would definitely consider but the few blued guns I've seen weren't nearly as nice as the German guns.
Mine has never jammed. It has seen mostly FMJ but my Cor-Bon and Golden Saber carry ammo have been run through it a bunch.
Mine still looks great and I see where some members don't carry the older guns. Is this for PPK only? Would this include the older German PPK/S'?
I carry the PPK/S because it is smaller than my Glock 19. Under a T-shirt with shorts it does hide better. Besides, I can't think of a pistol that is a more natural extension of my hand than my PPK/S.
What is overlooked regarding the mediocre quality of S&W-licensed Walthers is that the PPK and PPK/s are made in a different factory in Deerplop, New Hampshire, (or wherever)-- NOT where S&W's revolvers are manufactured. Skilled craftsmen who understand guns cannot be recruited by drawing on the local labor pool that otherwise would be behind the counter at MacDonald's.
M
M
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I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this "mediocre quality" BS about the S&W Walthers. Yes, they have had some teething problems. But we are talking about starting up an assembly line in the US by a company that hasn't previously produced the pocket pistols, and that has modified them to make them much more enjoyable to shoot. ANY problems that have surfaced have been addressed by S&W quite promptly and FOR FREE.
My melting grips problem was resolved by a brand new set of grips from S&W.
I think a lot of this prejudice against the S&W PPK boils down to just plain "snobbery". People seem to HATE that S&W has hooked up with Walther and puts their name on the Walther guns. Well sorry folks, but without S&W, Walther would probably cease to exist in the US. I doubt very much Earl's could "take up the slack" that would exist if S&W wasn't here. Do I like the Interarms and prewar PPK...of course! But I'd much rather SHOOT my S&W PPK than admire the craftsmanship of a "biting" PPK
Dep
My melting grips problem was resolved by a brand new set of grips from S&W.
I think a lot of this prejudice against the S&W PPK boils down to just plain "snobbery". People seem to HATE that S&W has hooked up with Walther and puts their name on the Walther guns. Well sorry folks, but without S&W, Walther would probably cease to exist in the US. I doubt very much Earl's could "take up the slack" that would exist if S&W wasn't here. Do I like the Interarms and prewar PPK...of course! But I'd much rather SHOOT my S&W PPK than admire the craftsmanship of a "biting" PPK
Dep
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+1 on Dep's remarks here. I suspect that it's also true that some folks have never forgiven S&W for its capitulation to the new-at-the-time national gun laws ordered up during the early Clinton years. No matter. S&W has been around the block, it has a long and storied history of manufacturing wonderful handguns, and it has dealt promptly and fairly with the initial concerns about the Walther models that it is manufacturing here. You will see post after post on this forum attesting to exactly that.Do I like the Interarms and prewar PPK...of course! But I'd much rather SHOOT my S&W PPK than admire the craftsmanship of a "biting" PPK
For what it's worth, I was on the range yesterday with a federal marshal and took along my S&W PPK/S stainless .380. We put 50 flawless rounds through it (we spent most of our time with the P5 and P99), and my marshal friend was impressed with its instictive accuracy and its performance. Most of all, he was impressed with the fact that he didn't get the same "bite" that he once did when he carried a PPK as a backup gun while working with the Oregon State Police back in the day ... and he still sports the scars on both hands to prove it.
The S&W PPK works just fine, thank you. It's a pleasure to shoot, a pleasure to own. I'd recommend one to anybody looking for a reliable carry gun.
I think S&W is doing something right. They've gone from annual sales of $800,000 to $5.2 million and their stock has risen from $1.50 per share to $6.25....
I'm on the www.Smith-WessonForum.com quite often. I think S&W's move to make the Walther PPK series was very smart. It's still the most widely used compact .380 for off duty and private CCW.
Two things seem to be keeping S&W from going through the roof. First, a military contract (hey, they got their first big contract providing Russia with the .44 Russian large frame breaktop revolver) and second the much hated lock above the cylinder latch on their current revolvers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/b...mes Topics/People/W/Wayne, Leslie&oref=slogin
I'm on the www.Smith-WessonForum.com quite often. I think S&W's move to make the Walther PPK series was very smart. It's still the most widely used compact .380 for off duty and private CCW.
Two things seem to be keeping S&W from going through the roof. First, a military contract (hey, they got their first big contract providing Russia with the .44 Russian large frame breaktop revolver) and second the much hated lock above the cylinder latch on their current revolvers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/b...mes Topics/People/W/Wayne, Leslie&oref=slogin
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mm6: I think that S&W lock is also much ado about very little. I think the people complaining about it are more upset that S&W installed the lock, rather than any problems with it. I have 5 S&W "lock" revolvers and not one of them has given me any problems with the lock. And they all have it installed. The fact is a LOT of companies are installing a locking mechanism of some sort. H&K, Springfield Armory, Taurus, and Ruger all have some form of onboard locking mechanism. The internet is to blame for a lot of the hoopala about S&W locks. Many people fire thousands of rounds with them and never have a glitch. But they also don't post on forums either
BTW...the lock mechanism is a VERY EASY item to remove
And it's not illegal to do so unless the state you live in requires an internal lock.
Dep
BTW...the lock mechanism is a VERY EASY item to remove
And it's not illegal to do so unless the state you live in requires an internal lock.
Dep
writwing: I sure wish I had bought it back when it was just $1.50!!!!
Deputy: I have nothing against the Internal Lock "concept." I (and many, many others) just hate how it looks. The other manufacturers place their locks in much more inconspicous locations. It's similar to the good old days when a gorgeously polished and blued barrel wasn't marred by the now infamous phrase "Before Shooting Gun, Read Instructions Available Free From...." Ugh.
Deputy: I have nothing against the Internal Lock "concept." I (and many, many others) just hate how it looks. The other manufacturers place their locks in much more inconspicous locations. It's similar to the good old days when a gorgeously polished and blued barrel wasn't marred by the now infamous phrase "Before Shooting Gun, Read Instructions Available Free From...." Ugh.
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