[Kar98]

The Stuttgart public prosecutor's office has closed its investigation against the weapons company Carl Walther. It belongs to the Arnsberg Umarex Group - and was suspected of illegal arms deliveries.

Peace activists had reported the company. The complaint accused Carl Walther of illegally delivering pistols to the then civil war country of Colombia. Research by the peace activists had shown that the pistols were used there by the military.

Illegal arms exports by Umarex?

The pistols were the subject of investigations
As the prosecutor announced on Wednesday (27/09/2017), they have stopped their investigation after three years. The weapons came from an approved delivery to the Czech Republic and had come from there on unknown routes to Colombia.

The company Carl Walther - and thus also Umarex - could therefore not be charged with criminal charges.

The case was reported by members of the "Aktion Aufschrei - Stop the Arms Trade". They claim that several hundred Walther P99 and Walther P22 pistols have been delivered to Colombia. Thus, the company had violated the War Weapons Control Act and the Foreign Trade Act.

And it's about homicides. "Anyone who delivers guns like the Walther P99 and Walther P22 to a civil war country like Colombia without a permit, knows that these firearms kill people, even if they do not do it themselves," says Jürgen Grässlin, author of the book. "Network of Death" and one of the spokespersons of the "Action Outcry". "The responsible persons at the company Walther have accepted at least approvingly that with the delivered pistols extrajudicial killings are made in Colombia."

----

So the news about these dropped charges were oddly enough not as widely reported as when they were filed, what a mystery that is! (Which is why I just noticed this ten month old article). And it turns out it was just a bunch of re-routed P22's that somehow wound up in Colombia, by way of the Czech Republic.

 

[Balor]

I wasn't following this closely, but I did notice the report last September stating that the charges against Walther had been dropped.

The reason, it appears, was that the pistols concerned were all rimfire and thus not subject to the laws on export of war material. They seem to have found no evidence that centre-fire pistols were involved nor was there any evidence of collusion between Walther and the Czech authorities to evade the relevant German export laws.

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/bw/ulm/ulmer-waffenhersteller-ermittlungen-gegen-walther-eingestellt/-/id=1612/did=20360360/nid=1612/hqmccc/index.html

With SIG Sauer, that was a completely different matter. The allegations against the company are substantial and serious.

For your entertainment and amusement, here's something a bit more current:

Stuttgart: Prozess gegen Heckler-&-Koch-Mitarbeiter beginnt - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Balor

 

[PPS1980]

I wasn't following this closely, but I did notice the report last September stating that the charges against Walther had been dropped.

The reason, it appears, was that the pistols concerned were all rimfire and thus not subject to the laws on export of war material. They seem to have found no evidence that centre-fire pistols were involved nor was there any evidence of collusion between Walther and the Czech authorities to evade the relevant German export laws.

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/bw/ulm/ulmer-waffenhersteller-ermittlungen-gegen-walther-eingestellt/-/id=1612/did=20360360/nid=1612/hqmccc/index.html

With SIG Sauer, that was a completely different matter. The allegations against the company are substantial and serious.

For your entertainment and amusement, here's something a bit more current:

Stuttgart: Prozess gegen Heckler-&-Koch-Mitarbeiter beginnt - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Balor

Article I'm reading says H&K not Sig.

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

Now I can only hope Walther/Umerax files suit against the "Peace activists" who reported the company, to recover ALL costs related to defense of false claims.


Why is it these "activists" see a manufacturers name on a gun, in a S-hole region of the world and think, that manufacturer MUST have shipped it here.


Shows how retarded "activists" can be.

 

[Balor]

Article I'm reading says H&K not Sig.

The above reference is to a legal process which has recently been opened against Heckler & Koch.

If you'd like to read my rant concerning SIG Sauer, see post #40 of this thread:

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/110840-best-sights-ppq-me-4.html

Balor

 

[ewigeSchlangenkraft]

Now I can only hope Walther/Umerax files suit against the "Peace activists" who reported the company, to recover ALL costs related to defense of false claims.


Why is it these "activists" see a manufacturers name on a gun, in a S-hole region of the world and think, that manufacturer MUST have shipped it here.

Shows how retarded "activists" can be.

After witnessing the various debacles caused by so-called "SJWs," I really think that leftist activism is truly all captured under the umbrella of pathological altruism; motivated by low self-esteem, need for attention, and little actual concern for the supposed victims in any given case. Certainly there must be some exceptions, but they seem harder and harder to find.

 

[1917-1911M]

Member Crete has been discussing this for the past couple of years. Our contacts in Germany had completely dropped off the map and no parts could be shipped to Greece regardless of who you knew. Hope this resolves it. Who knows what went on but glad to hear Walther/Umarex has been cleared. One country does use the P22 for their police and military....Bangladesh. Better watch out if that Army is over rise..... 1917

 

[Kar98]

1917, I keep bringing this up every time somebody is all hopeful for the new PPK/PPKS. Maybe NOW we'll see some progress?

Also, this is pretty much why SIG Sauer has pretty much become an American company, as far as I can tell. HK wants to, also, but they're pretty much the default supplier for German small arms, both police and military, and that's a big chunk to give up, even though the German army is in worse shape now than it was in Summer of '45.

 

[Thunderbirdsport302]

NOW will they start letting us mere civilians have access to the PPQ M3 and P3????????????????????????????

Ferchrissakesalive, it's JUST a PPQ with a different by god trigger.

You've already got the tooling to produce a few more, and you know damned good and well you'll sell every one you make and ship here...

It's stupid to NOT do it...

Ughhh.

But please, give us another hunk 0'****e single stack made in Arnsberg.

 

[Kar98]

Yeah but like I said in another thread yesterday, all of Umarex has like 800 people working for them, and between 250-280 at Walther in Ulm. My guess would be they're filling government contracts first. I'm just glad they finally pushed a huge batch of full-sized P99s stateside.

 

[Balor]

HK wants to, also, but they're pretty much the default supplier for German small arms, both police and military

.........not to mention fixing the Brits' notorious SA 80, which the troops affectionately referred to as their “Civil Servant” rifle.

Civil servant = government worker/public employee = doesn't work, can't be fired.

Balor

 

[Thunderbirdsport302]

Damn, here I was thinking the Brit soldiers carried real guns.

I mean, carried guns, period.

(Sorry to my UK brethren. Much love.)

 

[balance]

HK wants to, also, but they're pretty much the default supplier for German small arms, both police and military, and that's a big chunk to give up, even though the German army is in worse shape now than it was in Summer of '45.

H&K is probably the largest supplier, but I wouldn't call them the default supplier. Sig and Walther supply a big chunk of the police pistols there, and there are units in the military that use Glock.

 

[Balor]

H&K is probably the largest supplier, but I wouldn't call them the default supplier. Sig and Walther supply a big chunk of the police pistols there, and there are units in the military that use Glock.

The currently issued pistols of the various German police forces can be seen in the right-hand column of the following link:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Dienstwaffen_der_deutschen_Polizei

It can be seen from this list that Heckler & Koch and Walther dominate. SIG Sauer is very sparsely represented. Some departments of the Bundeskriminalamt, as well as the Stadtpolizei Frankfurt am Main (a very small force) still use SIG Sauer. Sachsen-Anhalt is the only force still using them in significant numbers - and they have just recently put out a Request for Tender for new service pistols.

The standard service pistol of the Bundeswehr is the Heckler & Koch P8 - a variant of the USP.

Balor

 

[balance]

Sig must have lost out on a lot of contracts in the past few years. The last time I saw a list like this, it was H&K, Sig, and Walther, in that order.

The GSG9 pretty famously uses the Glock 17, as well as some other units in the German military.

My only point is that I wouldn't call H&K the default supplier.

 

[Balor]

Here's a challenge for anyone who is interested:

Go through the list referred to above, ignoring the SIG Sauers and the H&K P10 (USP) and see if you can spot three common denominators.

German manufacture is obvious and doesn't count as one of the three.

Balor

 

[Kar98]

Here's a challenge for anyone who is interested:

Go through the list referred to above, ignoring the SIG Sauers and the H&K P10 (USP) and see if you can spot three common denominators.

German manufacture is obvious and doesn't count as one of the three.

Balor

9mm, manual safety, one ton trigger pull?

 

[balance]

Double Action Only? (Is the SFP9 a SAO pistol?)

Polymer Frame

 

[Balor]

• Polymer frame and 9mm are, of course, correct - but not what I had in mind. There are other commonalities, such as the accessory rail, three-dot sights, high-capacity magazines, which also aren't among the three.
  

• “One ton trigger pull” would be correct, if you agree that more than 30 Newton (3.06kg/6.74lbs) feels like a ton.

• “Double Action only?” - The only DAO model on the list (to my knowledge) is the P99 DAO issued in Nordrhein-Westfalen.

• “Is the SFP9 a SAO pistol?” - Yes, it is a partially pre-cocked SAO, like the VP9, but the German police version has a heavier trigger.

• “Manual safety” - I don’t think any of them have a traditional thumb safety – if that’s what you mean.

So, the three common denominators are still open. Any more takers?


Balor

 

[MMA10mm]

Sig must have lost out on a lot of contracts in the past few years. The last time I saw a list like this, it was H&K, Sig, and Walther, in that order.

The GSG9 pretty famously uses the Glock 17, as well as some other units in the German military.

My only point is that I wouldn't call H&K the default supplier.

When Sig's parent company was bought out, the new owners had no interest in Sig and tried not to buy it. The old holding company said it was "all or nothing" and threw Sig into the deal for $1. You can imagine the kind of corporate support Sig gets from it's holding company with those kinds of mindsets...

Sig Sauer (rebranded Sig [USA]) is now bigger than the old factory in Germany. Sig would be a dying brand if not for the US market. Walther has definitely superceded Sig in Europe. As much as we dislike Umarex' influence, at least they support the brand, which has helped it continue to grow.