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Discussion Starter #1
hello gentlemen, i am new to this forum and had a question. this has probably been hashed over a few times but i could not find it using the search so hopefully you guys won't get too irritated and will help me out.

i bought a P99 a month ago and have been looking for some full capacity mags ever since. i have seen everything from P88 mags with different floor plates to turkish imports all ranging in the $80 to $120 range. this to me seems very high to me.

so here's my question, can you load the 40S&W mags with 9mm and have them function properly in the 9mm P99? i have heard you can in a few different types of hand guns but was wondering if this would apply to my new walther.

i really love this gun but am bugged to no end with 10 round mags.

thanks guys.

ian
 

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Hi Ian,
Sorry, don't know the answer to the 40 S&W mag question.
At the local gun shop here, the P99 Pre-Ban hi-cap 9mm 16 round mags go for $125 + 5% tax!  I did not go for that.

I picked up one on Gunbroker a month ago for about $80.
Just got another from Robert Johnson for $71.40 which included shipping & a small PayPal fee.
That's about the best price I have seen for P99 Pre-ban hi caps.  Drop him an email, [email protected]  He may have more (he has many satisfied customers from the posts I've seen, including me).
Just opened the package, brand new pre-ban, marked Walther, P99 on floor plate, well lubed.  It is a MEC-GAR mag that has the last witness hole #15, but holds 16 rnds.
 

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I read on another forum that you can convert beretta 9mm mags to fit the P99 so I tried it on a couple of cheep after market mags I had and all I had to do was drill a hole where the magazine catch was. I have not shot it yet but it will feed a round if I cycle it buy hand and holds the slide open when the mag is empty.
 

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How well does the Beretta mag fit in the mag well?  Has anyone else heard about this?

Would be great if it worked, wouldn't it (of course as long as the beretta mags still work in beretta guns after drilling the P99 mag catch hole, otherwise it would be manufacturing of post ban large cap feeding devices).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
just an update, i bought a P99 40 call mag the other day. with a small amount of adjustment(about .5mm) to the feed lips it worked perfectly. it only holds 12 rounds but at the same price as the standard mags who can agrue?

i ran 400 rounds through it and not one problem. by the way, i put it back in my friends .40 P99 and it still worked fine so no worries of breaking the law.

ian
 

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Please give us an update when you get a chance to shoot it.

If possible, could you also post pictures comparing the Walther and Beretta mags as well as showing how it sits in P99.

Thanks a lot.
 

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Here's a pictures. The hole to the left on the mag is the one I drilled. I think all that catches is the corner of the mag catch but I can't pull it out. If you have a beretta magazine you can just slide it in and out a few times and it will leave a little scratch where the mag catch is and I just drilled the hole at the bottom of the line. You can also take the slide off and put the magazine in and look down from the top and get a good idea. If your not sure drill the hole a little low and work your way up. If your hole is to high it won't hold the mag up wher it needs to be.
 

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Thanks for the pictures!  This confirms that Beretta 92 magazines would work in the P99 if a new magazine catch were to be drilled out.  Mec-Gar is the OEM for both Beretta and Walther factory magazines so maybe this isn't coincidence.

Are those 15 round Beretta 92 magazines?  If so, they seem to stick out about an inch, which may cause problems for concealed carry since it could snag on clothing.  I wonder if using a Beretta 92 Compact pre-ban magazine would work better?  They hold 13 rounds and are shorter than the normal 92 pre-bans but may fit flush with the bottom of the grip.  However they are much harder to find than the 15 rounders.

P99 owners may unfortunately need to start buying up Beretta pre-bans and firing up the Dremel -- I received a response to my letter to the ATF today and they seem to give Walther P99 high/full capacity magazines (9mm and .40) for civilians a thumbs down
:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
September 27, 2002

Dear xxx:

This is in reply to your letter dated August 29, 2002,
in which you would like clarification on the
importability of a large capacity magazine for a
Walther Model P99.

As defined in Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.)
the term large capacity ammunition feeding device:

(A) means a magazine, belt, feed strip, or
similar device manufactured after the enactment
of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement
Act of 1994 that has a capacity of, or that can
be readily restored or converted to accept, more
than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

(B) does not include an attached tubular device
designed to accept, and capable of operating only
with .22 caliber ammunition.

Title 18, U.S.C., Chapter 44, section 922(w)(1)
provides that it shall be unlawful for a person to
transfer or posess a large capacity ammunition-
feeding device.  However, Paragraph (1) shall not
apply to the possesson or transfer of any large
capacity ammnunition feeding device otherwise lawfully
possessed on or before the date of the enactment of
this subsection.

The Walther P99 was introduced after the Violent Crime
Control Act was enacted on September 13, 1994;
therefore, all magazines for the Walther P99 that are
imported for sale to the civilian population can only
have a ten-round capacity.  Magazines that are
manufactured or imported for law enforcement and
military sales with higher than ten-round capacity
must be marked in accordance with the cited
regulation.  We also note that U.S. Patent 5,386,657
was issued on February 7, 1995; therefore, a 16 round
magazine bearing this patent number was clearly
manufactured after September 13, 1994, and it is
prohibited under section 922(w)(1).

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to
your inquiry.  If you have further questions
concerning this matter, please contact us.


Sincerely yours,



Curtis H.A. Bartlett
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
Mec-Gar makes a reference to this patent on their website (http://www.mec-gar.com/technical.html).  The Patent Trademark Office (http://www.uspto.gov) does confirm the patent as being issued in February 1995.  Does anyone have a magazine over 10 rounds that does not have that patent number stamped on it?
 

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With all due respect, the ATF's reasoning is flawed.

Even if the patent number is not know prior to the issuance of the patent (which may not necessarily be the case -- I'm not a patent lawyer), nothing prevents the manufacturer from building up inventory in anticipation of the patent issuance and then having the already manufactured magazines stampped with the patent number before releasing them into the stream of commerce.

Thus, Mecgar could've manufactured the full cap mags prior to Sept 13, 1994, kept them in a warehouse, and then, once the patent was issued, stampped them with the patent number.

With respect to the so called "Turkish" 15 rd mags, the patent number could've been stampped prior to their importation into the U.S. by the importer, distributor or Mecgar in order to protect the intellectual property protected by the patent in the U.S.
 

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Not only that, but the ATF is flat in error on this and Earl Sheehan has the documentation to back it up. Now we can argue all day about whether the multitude of P99 16 round magazines in circulation WITHOUT MARKINGS originally came from Earl's stash that he imported LEGALLY or not, but the fact remains:

- There were prototype 16 round magazines made for the then in development Walther HLP (hammerless Pistole) which became the P99 well before the 9.94 ban took effect.
- Earl has the import papers to back it up
- MecGar denies their existance (they are lying or dumb)
- Walther denies their existance (they are lying or dumb)
- LOTS of manufacturers made LOTS of magazine bodies in the weeks between when the 9.94 ban was passed and when it took effect. (I never figured out why Slick gave everyone so much time to pull all-nighter manufacturing runs to stock up before the ban took effect - he must have had something that benefited him by doing so
)
- The law clearly states that if the magazine is not marked as required by statue, it is presumed to be "pre-ban".
- It is established fact (through Earl's documentation) that there were magazines made before 9.94
- Hopefully ATF has bigger fish to fry than pursuing someone with UNMARKED magazines to try and prove that they are POST BAN.

What I'd like to see is everyone QUIT WRITING TO THE ATF and drawing attention to this!


James
 
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