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Hi -- I decided to do a little practice with my PPK/S at the range today. It's my concealed carry gun and I love it. I've had it for about 10 years now, and it has always performed perfectly. I sent it off to S&W a few years ago to do the recall, and got it back just as good as it was when I sent it. Anyway, I picked up a box of ammo at the range and had 5 FTF in a box of 50. It's ammo I've never used before called Lellier & Bellot 9mm Browning Court/.380 Auto in full metal jacket. There are two numbers on the box, one says 92 grs, which I take to mean 92 grain bullets and there's a 6.0 g number, which I have no idea what that is. On the end of the box, there's another number 4.4 mm BOXER and I don't know what that is either, but it says it's non-corrosive. I'm certain the failures to fire were not the result of my weapon since all 5 of them fired with a second strike of the hammer. On the first to FTF's, I looked at the round and the primers had been struck with what looked like a normal hit to me. Has anyone had any experience like this with the Lellier & Bellot ammo? Needless to say, I won't be buying any more of it any time soon.

Incidently, the ammo itself was very accurate in my gun. In fact, I shot my best 5 round group of one and one quarter inches at 7 yards offhand with them. Thanks!
 

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I have shot a lot of their ammo in 32 in my PPK's & have had no trouble at all. I like them & Fiocchi best in 32. I have not used it in 380. By the way it is Seiller & Bellot unless you have something different.
 

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I'd clean your gun thoroughly and be sure there's no gunk in the chamber. Make sure you are loading from the magazine only - never drop a round into the chamber through the ejection port. Make sure that you are using the factory hammer spring and not a cut or lighter spring. If that doesn't help use ammo that you know works in your gun.
 

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Very interesting!

I had about five or six FTFs in three boxes of that brand of ammo while breaking in my NIB [Blued] Walther PPK/S, and individually ran those rounds back thru after finishing off the third box w/no problem. I then ran a 25-round box of Hornady 90 gr XTP thru followed by a 15-round string of Hornady Zombies; all 40 cycled smoothly.
 

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...There are two numbers on the box, one says 92 grs, which I take to mean 92 grain bullets and there's a 6.0 g number, which I have no idea what that is...
92 grains = 6 grams (well, 5.96 but who's going to quibble about 0.04 grams). :p
 

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Tet, What is your PPK/S, IA or German or S&W ? I only have IA in 380 ,but love my 32 S&W PPK. It has been perfect.
 

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Odd, while I find it to be rather dirty ammo, I have not had a single burp with either the .32 or .380 by Sellier & Bellot in either my PPK/s or my PP's.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks much!

Hi All, Thanks much for the information on the Sellier and Bellot ammo. The way they have the script on the box made the "S" look like an "L" to my old eyes. Anyway, since the ammo was very accurate and the misfires did fire on a second strike, I may give them another try. I did notice some unburned powder in the chamber and back of the barrel when I was cleaning it so maybe I just got a poor batch. I normally shoot the Fiocchi or Hornady or Federal ammo in it, and I've never had a single misfire, failure to feed, or failure to eject before today. That weapon is very reliable, exactly what I want for my concealed carry.
 

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Shar....the reason your guns will shoot anything is because they are Manurhin....obviously of better quality than all the knock-off junk.:D
Heh only two of the three, the third is pre-war German ;)

To the poster, all in all for me the Sellier & Bellot seems to work well. I wonder if you had a bad batch or something. Perhaps try some at some other point.
 

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S & B is know to have hard primers.
That would have been my guess, and I recall some S&B that I've fired didn't seem to have a terribly deep firing pin mark.
It may be that the OP's batch of ammo had uncommonly hard battery cups in the primers.
Guns are designed for a specific degree of resistance in primer hardness.
The standard test of hammer/FP force in an S&W revolver is to fire it double action with the muzzle straight up (be aware where the bullets may come back down...). The cartridges will shift a few thousandths back against the recoil shield, and the impact of the hammer/firing pin actually has to lift the round enough allow it to headspace on the cylinder.
It has been my experience that Smiths will fire Federal primers under that circumstance, but not the noticeably harder (you can feel the difference seating them in the loading press) CCI's.
Moon
 

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I have shot S & B .32acp successfully in my Manhurin PP, however it will not handle Winchester Silver Tips, hollow point too soft or the ramp too steep. It does handle Speer Lawman quite well.

When I lived in Myrtle Beach and frequented Myrtle Beach Shooting Range they would not allow you to use S & B ammo - maybe it was because of their desire to sell more expensive ammo.
 

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I have had this same problem with the S&B 380 ammo, I bought a 1000 rounds of it, it was nothing but jams and unfired rounds in the PPK. I do have to mention I bought my PPK-s in late November, had primer problems from the start with winchester 380, 6 misfires out of 100 rounds, took back to gunsmith he changed or at least said he identified the problem and went to fire again with the S&B ammo and developed the problems I stated above. This same ammo fires fine in my Sig P238, shot 250 rounds without incident, however, the PPK didn't like them.

You can tell that the S&B just didn't feed well in my PPK, it never seated well often had ackward jams and feeds. I also notice in the mag it would drag the next cartridge forward slightly which would cause a loading problem that ultimately contributed to a jam. A guy at the gun store was convinced the S&B was marakov ammo, I think because it was stamped with 9mm instead of 380, but I believe that the Browning Court is identical, I will though take a micrometer to it to rule that out.

Today, I shot 200 rounds with CCI Blazing Brass ammo, I had 8 unfire, loaded them all up again and then they fired. With my PPK the CCI was easier to handle when it didn't fire, I could easily clear the chamber, while the S&B I would have to take barrel off to knock back out. I never had a jam with the CCI just the few unfired cartridges.

I also noticed that the Barrel would somtimes not come all the way forward when loading the first cartridge, I often had to push it further forward, maybe I have a bad spring, we shall see.

In conclusion, the PPK-S is back at the Gunsmith to determine why so many unfired. While only utilizing the S&B ammo with my sig.
 

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Morning TTTYMA, stinks about your luck with the S&B. Silly question but someone is going to ask it, have you tried cleaning the mags really well or using different mags? Does the ammo box say 9mm Kurz or even 7.65mm? Is it the FMJ or the soft point version? You may even want to post a pic of the box you have just to get a peak at it. Hope we can help!
 

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Yeah that is the normal .380, I shoot that all the time in my PP and PPK/s... interesting. it tends to burn a bit dirty so perhaps a really good cleaning. :confused:
 

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S & B is know to have hard primers.
Second that. The only time I had the same thing happen was with the S&B and this on 2 different occassions. WWB and Fiocchi never a problem. That red stuff that S&B puts on the cartridge at the primer to seal off moisture maybe a problem?? Thoughts?
 
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