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It takes time and communication with sellers to buy expensive firearms off GB.

I picked up my two Italian competition gun off GB..........

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I'm out right now but alot of times I'll buy a whole lot of police surplus PP,s strip the blueing polish the marks and case harden them and resell them. And even I'm not asking this guys prices I get around 499-599 USD per pistol depends on if I have to replace the barrel.
Yeah I wouldn't mind that either, the issue is I paid for what I thought was advertised as original and it definitely wasn't. The only reason I even jumped on it was because of the west berlin sunburst proofmark on it. If you look at the original listing the gun didn't even need a reblue it was fucking fine already. The other issue is that it being a PPK they always command a premium over PPs.
I'm not sure if I should bother keeping or just get the money back, if the guy doesn't act like a dickhead about and offers a partial refund I'll do that, but now I'm concerned he could've done something else like swap out parts for lesser quality substitutes.
 

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Yeah I wouldn't mind that either, the issue is I paid for what I thought was advertised as original and it definitely wasn't. The only reason I even jumped on it was because of the west berlin sunburst proofmark on it. If you look at the original listing the gun didn't even need a reblue it was fucking fine already. The other issue is that it being a PPK they always command a premium over PPs.
I'm not sure if I should bother keeping or just get the money back, if the guy doesn't act like a dickhead about and offers a partial refund I'll do that, but now I'm concerned he could've done something else like swap out parts for lesser quality substitutes.
I wouldn't assume he would have to the thing about these guns is its almost impossible to wear one out my uncle has one that has had over 150k rounds of 32acp in it and it's still tight as a drum.
 

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I'm concerned he could've done something else like swap out parts for lesser quality substitutes.
I wouldn't worry about that. There isn't a huge aftermarket for knockoff PPK parts. If anything did get replaced it would probably be the springs or magazine and I would consider Wolff Gunsprings or Mec-Gar magazines to be of equal quality as the OEM parts.
 

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Because most have only 50% blueing in tact plus surplus guns need TLC anyhow.
I can understand why some customers would want a shiny new pistol but I prefer honest wear. I don't even like to replace springs unless there's a problem with how the gun works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I wouldn't assume he would have to the thing about these guns is its almost impossible to wear one out my uncle has one that has had over 150k rounds of 32acp in it and it's still tight as a drum.
the smith and wesson or fortsmith parts won't work in originals?
 

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Perhaps - we do not know. Never tried yet...
 

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Same types of seller you find also in Germany and elsewhere in the world. If you buy on German eGun or US Gunbroker etc. keep your eyes open and your mind sharpened.
This is spot on.
I purchased a couple of P5s off egun in 2019. When the time came to pay the Exporter, I was informed he had not received the P5 Lang from the seller.
I contacted the Lang seller, was told it had been shipped to and received by the Export company. The seller made a comment to me that I may have to "lawyer up". I informed him that I had discussed the possibility of these transactions going sideways with my importer (Simpson LTD), and was informed that they have legal representation in Germany for those situations, and I could use them, if needed.
I got a SUPER nasty email from the Exporter within 10 minutes of email communication with the seller, these two were OBVIOUSLY in communication behind my back.
The Exporter was offended in his email, stating I "threatened" legal action against him, and he was insulted by my "unprofessionalism". He also wanted me to send him a copy of EVER email I had sent and received with the seller. NO TRUST AMONG THEVES.
I informed him that having covered my bases in case this deal went sideways is NOT a threat, and he is NOT much of a "businessman" if he takes is as such.
I informed him I was wiring the full amount for export of ALL firearms listed on the BAFA docs, any missing guns will be addressed thru attorneys.
The Lang was located and shipped with the other guns.
Many people in that situation would not have wired the export fees in full. Seen as throwing good money after bad.
I paid the fees to ensure I had covered ALL obligations in the transaction. This would give the Exporter no excuse should the matter go to court .

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Technically fraud.
Did you go to law school? Obviously not. He never said that it was not refinished. So which part is fraud? Selling a refinished a gun and not disclosing it? That might be very unethical and not a great commercial venture but calling it fraud will not stand up in court. Charges against you for slander have a better chance. The way this ad is worded should already make anybody suspicious

Define excellent mint and think hard by which standard it is graded. NRA, eye of beholder, or B.S. society?

"High quality manufactured Walther / Manurhin Model PPK in 7.65mm (.32acp) caliber. Classified as a Curio & Relic. California legal. Can be sent directly to C&R licensees where permitted. This is the original not a copy. The perfect concealed carry gun with high quality workmanship and flawless functioning you can depend on. Excellent mint condition . Layaway available."

No wonder MGMike opted out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Did you go to law school? Obviously not. He never said that it was not refinished. So which part is fraud? Selling a refinished a gun and not disclosing it? That might be very unethical and not a great commercial venture but calling it fraud will not stand up in court. Charges against you for slander have a better chance. The way this ad is worded should already make anybody suspicious

Define excellent mint and think hard by which standard it is graded. NRA, eye of beholder, or B.S. society?

"High quality manufactured Walther / Manurhin Model PPK in 7.65mm (.32acp) caliber. Classified as a Curio & Relic. California legal. Can be sent directly to C&R licensees where permitted. This is the original not a copy. The perfect concealed carry gun with high quality workmanship and flawless functioning you can depend on. Excellent mint condition . Layaway available."

No wonder MGMike opted out.
Oh okay. Hey that car I sold you that said ran fine? I never not said the motor would blow up the next day.
Are you kidding me right now lol?
 

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"Excellent mint condition" for a refinished firearm is intentionally misleading. The price of the firearm is also meant to mislead someone into thinking they are looking at a more valuable piece. Not disclosing that the firearm has been refinished is an egregious omission of a material fact and would likely be actionable because refinishing, had it been known, would have an affect on the gun's value and collectability status.
 

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He never said that it was not refinished. So which part is fraud? Selling a refinished a gun and not disclosing it?
Maybe the seller would have a defense that would hold up in court. Maybe he wouldn't. But if the seller knew that his pistol was refinished and worded his description "This is the original not a copy" then that sounds like fraud to me.

No wonder MGMike opted out.
Whatever his reasons were it didn't have anything to do with the OP or this thread.
 

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I purchased a PPK in .380 from him some years ago. While it wasn't a steal of a deal it was still in the ballpark of what others were selling for at the time. It was all original. ~J
 

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Did you go to law school? Obviously not. He never said that it was not refinished. So which part is fraud? Selling a refinished a gun and not disclosing it? That might be very unethical and not a great commercial venture but calling it fraud will not stand up in court. Charges against you for slander have a better chance. The way this ad is worded should already make anybody suspicious

Define excellent mint and think hard by which standard it is graded. NRA, eye of beholder, or B.S. society?

"High quality manufactured Walther / Manurhin Model PPK in 7.65mm (.32acp) caliber. Classified as a Curio & Relic. California legal. Can be sent directly to C&R licensees where permitted. This is the original not a copy. The perfect concealed carry gun with high quality workmanship and flawless functioning you can depend on. Excellent mint condition . Layaway available."

No wonder MGMike opted out.
Not disclosing something intentionally about the firearm is unethical and borderline fraud. Yeah it may not hold up in court but it is seriously dishonest. When someone sells something, they have a moral obligation to disclose everything they know about the item they are selling. Omitting pertinent information on purpose is dishonest in the least and that needs to be called out. This guy is the gun equivalent of a used car salesman.


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Reblued / refinished guns are misrepresented at gun shows too, often with a good story, so - buyer always beware.
The flip side of this at gun shows, is low balling the value of a gun that someone is trying so sell when the buyer knows it is a collectable gun worth much more, so - seller always beware.

PS: Always take your iphone with you. Way too easy to google to avoid being taken.
 

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Got lucky with this ”original, mint, factory test fired only“ 1966 PPK. The pictures did not look like the one here, this is inspection picture at my FFL. Straight back, selling FFL store did not realize as the refinish was almost done perfectly. Money back, great storefront, honest and truthfull. Sometimes mistakes are made. But omission of info as per original post is trapping the less informed out of their hard earned money.
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Shown mag is not time correct to the gun. These mags were made in the early 70s ;)
 

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Shown mag is not time correct to the gun. These mags were made in the early 70s ;)
The trickery worked on my old ass, got way to exited to finally getting a PPK, premium for $2500 made me think “no way this can be reblued/false advertised”, the pictures where taken dark and such that I could not see the details I did see when it was in my hands. Of course the thought crossed my mind several times that “we all own guns and its a tat risky to fuck somebody over” for the seller that is.......Back to the discussion, there is nothing wrong with re-blueing, changing parts, upgrading, etc...as long as you don’t do a false advertisement to trick somebody. Is it legally bad, no its not, morally yes that why we all hate used care salesman and politicians. But you need to hold them accountable....I got my money back today....all $2490! Go get your money too from this seller.
 
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