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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi everyone! As the title states, i just ordered my first handgun online, the ppq m1 5 inch offered on gunbuyer.com. not had any experience with handguns, though ive plenty with rifles, and i cant wait to correct that situation :) i have been doing extensive reading on handguns, ammo, cleaning, really everything i can find, but im still a little confused about the huge debate on the whole 124 grain vs 147 grain. i know im opening a can of worms asking this, but i really cant find any definite information on which one would be better suited for a 5 inch barrel. all the tests and reports are done with a 4 inch, and i know with a longer barrel, the velocity is increased, changing the ballistics. im thinking that the 147 HST would be a really great round for self defense, but i wanted to be sure, so here i am, asking all you experienced shooters.

also, sorry if this has been covered before, i did some searching, but did not find anything, so figured i would post a new topic.

anyway, cheers! happy shooting, and may none of us ever have to draw in any situation other than practice!
 

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Welcome to the Forums bear!
I promise a BG isn't going to notice a lick of difference between a 124 gr and a 147 and the modern designed JHP rounds expand well in both weights.

I'd suggest buying a few boxes of 124 and 147 FMJ range ammo and a box each of 124 and 147 JHP and see which weight ammo you and your Q shoot better (practicing with the FMJ will be a lot cheaper).

Use your own judgement after you've shot both from your Q. After all you are the person carrying the weapon and all things being equal there isn't a huge amount of difference at self defense ranges.

BTW...you will draw the weapon not pull it...:) again welcome to the Forums.
 

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Agree with Olsoul. Youtube and the internet are great....up to a point....then its time to do your own testing.

Both weights will get the job done. Just like Olsoul said....try both....make your own decision based on your perception/results.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
lol noted and edited ;) and yeh, i have planned on trying both eventually, was just mainly wondering if anyone knew if the ballistics changed any. i know im prolly over thinking it, shot placement trumps all ballistics, and multiple hits are always better than one hit, so shoot what you find best. just over thinking it, i tend to do a stupid amount of research on ANYTHING i buy before i actually get it.
 

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For self-defense I stay away from 115 grain ammo. I use and suggest the Federal HST in both 124 grain and 147 grain. Buy both weights, and as others have already said, go shoot them out your 5" PPQ. You may prefer one weight over the other based on what sight picture you use. The 147 grain ammo will obviously hit a bit higher than the 124 grain ammo. Enjoy your new PPQ M1 5" as it really is a wonderful pistol.
 

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Yep, I was gonna say it (over thinking it) but didn't....glad you did. :D Here ya go....ballistics by the inch.

Why not try some of this.
https://shopcorbon.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=42_44_110&product_id=432
Cor Bon 9mm Luger +P 100gr Urban Response.
Caliber: 9mm Luger +P
Bullet Wt.: 100gr URBAN RESPONSE Load
Velocity: 1475fps
Energy: 483ftlbs

Test Barrel Length: 4.0 Inches


Holy crap Old Fart,

That Corbon 9mm loading is basically at .357 magnum levels :D
 

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Ballistics and such are definitely stepping in to the details! A hand gun generally isn’t considered for long distance so The comments above about what works for you and your pistol is the biggest thing. If your gun eats what you feed it, great. For plinking and target practice you’ll find accuracy differs as IOF’s chart suggests. For self defense, considering that 3-7 yds is the statistical distance between you and the bad guy, I would be more concerned about my draw, and the ability of the gun to reliably go boom when I need it to.
That all said, spending time on the range is my version of someone else’s tee time and it’s fun to challenge ones self when things are calm.

Welcome to the forum from AUSTIN TX. These guys are very knowledgeable and I find that I’m always learning something new from them!
 

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You forgot the 150 grain round BTW 🙂

I shout Bullseye with my Q5. I have thousands and thousands of real world and pretty extensive experience with my Q at all sorts of distances up to and including 200 yards.

My conclusion is that all reputable 115 grain ammo is essentially the same. While groups may vary a tad, my scores don’t change and they all work at 200 yards. At close range, they REALLY don’t matter.

124 seems to shoot tighter groups. And 147 even tighter. I currently use Browning BPT which is a 147 grain round.

I do have some Atlanta Arms match grade ammo on the way and I will be doing a comparison and posting here soon.

For self defense, the BD will be dead. He won’t knkw the difference. My 5” is way to big to carry for me, so I don’t unless it is open carry.

The heavier the bullet the recoil tends to be softer.

As a soon to be new instructor and intense observer on the range....you can give the same gun and ammo to 10 different shooters and someone correctly gripping the gun with good technique will have little to no muzzle flip, while someone else will point the business end to the sky.

Conclusion....

1 - Practice, practice, practice with proper technique.

2 - Train with less expensive ammo so you can practice more.
 

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Bear just a word or two of advice, from the real world: more holes lets the bad out faster.
Use what you shoot best and your weapon shoots most reliably.

Become proficient with whichever round you settle on.
 
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To keep it simple for the OP,......HST in 147 or 124. I prefer 147HST but also have cases of 124HST and will use them without any concern. Your PPQ will shoot both equally well and extremely accurate. Now go shoot and enjoy that new gun.

Here is where I get LE quantities of HST at a good price.
https://massammo.com/handgun-ammo/9mm


 
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Here’s some practical advice, because of our society today if you are ever dragged into court for defending yourself, don’t used handloads or exotic bullets. Best advice is find out what your local law enforcement are using. On average heavier bullets perform better than lighter bullets, thus 147gr will give better results than 115gr. 124gr is an acceptable compromise. From a practical point of view Federal HSTs are at the top of the list in performance yet you can buy a box of 50 cheaper than most other brands 20 round boxes. When ever possible practice with the same weight bullet that you plan to use for defense or at least be aware that the Point of Impact of a 124gr bullet will be higher than 115gr and 147gr will be higher than 124gr. Once you decide on a defense round make sure you practice with it so you get a feel for how it performs.

One disclaimer to the heavy bullet statement above is the fluted fragmenting bullets such as the NovX fluted bullets http://Novxammo.com . These are light, 65gr, fluted bullets which a very high speed, 1800fps, all copper bullets. They are producing some pretty impressive test results.
 

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One disclaimer to the heavy bullet statement above is the fluted fragmenting bullets such as the NovX fluted bullets http://Novxammo.com . These are light, 65gr, fluted bullets which a very high speed, 1800fps, all copper bullets. They are producing some pretty impressive test results.

Thanks for sharing the link to those cartridges. At 1800 FPS, I wonder if they would defeat at least Level II body armor..........
 

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Hi everyone! As the title states, i just ordered my first handgun online, the ppq m1 5 inch offered on gunbuyer.com. not had any experience with handguns, though ive plenty with rifles, and i cant wait to correct that situation :) i have been doing extensive reading on handguns, ammo, cleaning, really everything i can find, but im still a little confused about the huge debate on the whole 124 grain vs 147 grain. i know im opening a can of worms asking this, but i really cant find any definite information on which one would be better suited for a 5 inch barrel. all the tests and reports are done with a 4 inch, and i know with a longer barrel, the velocity is increased, changing the ballistics. im thinking that the 147 HST would be a really great round for self defense, but i wanted to be sure, so here i am, asking all you experienced shooters.

also, sorry if this has been covered before, i did some searching, but did not find anything, so figured i would post a new topic.

anyway, cheers! happy shooting, and may none of us ever have to draw in any situation other than practice!
Heyas Fergbear! Welcome to the site, and to the Walther brand! You're gonna love that pistol when you get it!
Alright, so that said, you are suffering from what many of us refer to as information overdose. HAHAHA. Nah, it's understandable, all new to something, and you wanna know as much as you can soak up, it's great to be excited! :)
Ok, now here's something to keep in mind, and hopefully your gun shop or range where you buy your ammo will let you do this. Take the barrel of the gun with you, when you go to get your hollow point or defense rounds. Hopefully they will let you take one out of the box. Carefully insert the round into the chamber of the barrel, make sure that it seats correctly, and you are able to hand turn the round with just your finger and thumb. Then tilt the barrel and make sure that it drops out easily, and of gravity's own accord.
There's not many, but there are a few defense rounds that due to their shape, don't always fit right. Better to know that before you spend a chunk of cash on the box of ammo!
As for the actual load weights....shoot it. Find out what you are the most comfortable with, gets good accuracy for you and the pistol, and run with it, if you like.
Get out there and spit some jacketed lead ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks all for the advice. And yeh I have read somewhere it's fine to reload practice rounds but always use factory for defense. Guess I'll just save up and buy a few boxes of each.
 

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Thanks for sharing the link to those cartridges. At 1800 FPS, I wonder if they would defeat at least Level II body armor..........
These bullets are designed to fragment against material like concrete and steel, so I doubt they will penetrate ceramic armor plate. The real benefit of is inthe APX fluted bullet itself. Imagine what takes place behind the spinning propeller of an outboard motor, the fluted bullet causes the same effect cavitation. Check out the videos at http://novxammo.com/videos/. The other advantage of this bullet is the reduced weight. I have run 125 rounds of these through my SIG P228 (M11 A1) and my PPQ M2 SC. They cycle without issue, recoil is somewhat reduced considering it is a +P round. To me that shoot lower than conventional FMJ rounds. Another nice thing is NovX produces a round nose practice round that has the same characteristics as the fluted round. You can buy a package of 50 rounds practice and 27 rounds of the fluted bullet from Midway for $55.

This is going to sound stupid but, I still work providing personal protection and in large gathering events, I use this bullet because of it’s fragmentation characteristic. I do not want to hit a bystander with an errant shot bouncing of a solid surface.

Now you know everything I know about the NovX ARX bullet. Short answer, no they will not penetrate body armor but, traveling at 1700+ fps its going to hurt a lot.
 

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These bullets are designed to fragment against material like concrete and steel, so I doubt they will penetrate ceramic armor plate. The real benefit of is inthe APX fluted bullet itself. Imagine what takes place behind the spinning propeller of an outboard motor, the fluted bullet causes the same effect cavitation. Check out the videos at http://novxammo.com/videos/. The other advantage of this bullet is the reduced weight. I have run 125 rounds of these through my SIG P228 (M11 A1) and my PPQ M2 SC. They cycle without issue, recoil is somewhat reduced considering it is a +P round. To me that shoot lower than conventional FMJ rounds. Another nice thing is NovX produces a round nose practice round that has the same characteristics as the fluted round. You can buy a package of 50 rounds practice and 27 rounds of the fluted bullet from Midway for $55.

This is going to sound stupid but, I still work providing personal protection and in large gathering events, I use this bullet because of it’s fragmentation characteristic. I do not want to hit a bystander with an errant shot bouncing of a solid surface.

Now you know everything I know about the NovX ARX bullet. Short answer, no they will not penetrate body armor but, traveling at 1700+ fps its going to hurt a lot.
The NovX ARX bullets look similar to the Underwood and Lehigh Defense ammo. I have heard some people state (never saw it myself in person) that the Underwood 9mm cartridges penetrated Level II body armor. But again, that was just discussion and not physical evidence. Anyhow, here are links to Underwood and Lehigh Defense ammo. They look similar to the NovX ARX.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/colle...5-grain-xtreme-defender?variant=7865934577721

https://www.lehighdefense.com/colle...-xtreme-defense-ammunition?variant=4431999236
 

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Congrats on your new Walther and welcome to the forum!
I like to keep things simple. All the studies in ballistic gelatin and real world shootings show all of the HST 9mm is as good as it gets for an all around self defense ammo. I have HST 124 grains loaded in my SD guns. I do all of my practicing and target shooting with several different 9mm pistols using 124 ball ammo, mostly Blazer and Aguila. It’s cheap, easy to find, plentiful and it shoots to the same point of impact as the HST. This way I get the same feel of recoil no matter what kind of ammo I’m shooting. 147 grain ammo is nice to shoot, but harder to find and always more expensive than 115 or 124 grain. The less expensive the ammo, the more I can shoot and improve. I buy almost all my ammo at targetsportusa.com. Free shipping when you buy it by the case, and you should!
Regards,
Jeff
 
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