[HerrZnk]

Schade. Perhaps you can provide proof you are a descendant in some form. Ask what they would require in order for you to be considered an "eligible person".
Viel Glück!

 

[ballayre]

Ellis Island records could have misspelled name entries.

My GG-Grandfather immigrated from France (near the German border) and his name changed as Francois => Francis => Frank. His birthday and place of birth and family history all remained the same (so I feel sure we are tracking the right man), but the name was Americanized (maybe he even did it deliberately, especially the 'Frank' version)

 

[Jimmo952]

Consider taking a DNA test. Your DNA can be compared against other DNA samples in the database.

It's a good way to find long, lost family.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Yes, I just bought one from Ancestry. I am intrigued to learn the results ...
Best wishes, Dieter.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

My GG-Grandfather immigrated from France (near the German border) and his name changed as Francois => Francis => Frank. His birthday and place of birth and family history all remained the same (so I feel sure we are tracking the right man), but the name was Americanized (maybe he even did it deliberately, especially the 'Frank' version)

Where did your great-grandfather come from Lorraine or Alsace? Best wishes, Dieter.

 

[Jimmo952]

Yes, I just bought one from Ancestry. I am intrigued to learn the results ...
Best wishes, Dieter.

Good luck Dieter. I think this has a high probability of helping you in your quest.

 

[Blueturtle]

Hello all,
I know this is a veeeery long shot and this does not really belong into a gun forum, but most of you live in the USA and there all over the country. Hence maybe one of you can help me here with my family history, which I am researching at the moment?
The person under dicussion is my great-grandfather, Friedrich Marschall (born on 10th November 1847 in a small village called Wattweiler near the French border). Here is what I know about him:
A death certificate of the registry office Webenheim of 30.8.1887 notes (somewhat shortened):
"The farmer Georg Linz, Wattweiler, reported that the stone crusher Friedrich Marschall (Catholic), who lived with him ... had died in Wattweiler in his dwelling on 30.8.1887 in the morning at 11.00 a.m.".
This announcement was made, as was not unusual at the time, without a medical death certificate. There is said to have been a corresponding gravestone in Wattweiler, but there are justifiable doubts about this statement.
In the 19th century, if a German wanted to emigrate, he had to obtain a permit (passport), because the respective sovereign (in this case the King of Bavaria) would lose revenue in the form of taxes and other duties.
In August 1887, a cousin of Friedrich Marschall, Martin Marschall (grandfather of Willi Marschall, Kettersbergerhof) emigrated to the USA together with an unnamed friend. Both had legal emigration papers. It may be assumed that Friedrich Marschall simply joined these two - albeit without an emigration permit.
From here on, this story deliberately becomes somewhat "nebulous" for understandable reasons:
One of the two fellow emigrants seems to have died on the way to the USA by ship. Friedrich Marschall was thus able to enter the USA "legally" with his papers. At that time, such passports did not have passport photos.
Further, but not verifiable, rumours say that Friedrich Marschall settled in the Portland (Oregon) area in the USA. This could well have been so, as my research has shown that - according to My Heritage - a Jakob Rebmann (born 1812 in Wattweiler) is said to have lived there - possibly a close relative of Karolina Rebmann (born 9.4.1811 in Wattweiler), the wife of Johann Nikolaus Marschall (one of my forefathers)? In addition, there are letters from another emigrated Wattweiler citizen: Jacob Conrad (son of Friedrich Joseph Rebmann), who at least in June 1896 stayed at Mount Hood/Oregon (about 30 km from Portland).
The purpose of Friedrich Marschall's declaration of death by his father-in-law on 30 August 1887 was obviously that his daughter Elisabeth Linz could legally take over the inheritance and possibly marry again.

If any of you had any info or other input here, I would be very grateful. You are welcome to contact me directly by E-Mail under: [email protected]
Thank you in advance for any effort and please excuse my "misuse" of this forum.
Best wishes,
Dieter H. Marschall.

Not sure if this is a relative or not, but could be. .. Hilda Alwine Schulz (born Marschall) was born on month day 1911, at birth place, to Friedrich Wilhelm Marschall and Maria Anna Marschall (born Schwartz). Friedrich was born ... Hilda lived in Albany, Oregon 97321, USA. Hilda passed away ..

 

[Blueturtle]

Hello all,
I know this is a veeeery long shot and this does not really belong into a gun forum, but most of you live in the USA and there all over the country. Hence maybe one of you can help me here with my family history, which I am researching at the moment?
The person under dicussion is my great-grandfather, Friedrich Marschall (born on 10th November 1847 in a small village called Wattweiler near the French border). Here is what I know about him:
A death certificate of the registry office Webenheim of 30.8.1887 notes (somewhat shortened):
"The farmer Georg Linz, Wattweiler, reported that the stone crusher Friedrich Marschall (Catholic), who lived with him ... had died in Wattweiler in his dwelling on 30.8.1887 in the morning at 11.00 a.m.".
This announcement was made, as was not unusual at the time, without a medical death certificate. There is said to have been a corresponding gravestone in Wattweiler, but there are justifiable doubts about this statement.
In the 19th century, if a German wanted to emigrate, he had to obtain a permit (passport), because the respective sovereign (in this case the King of Bavaria) would lose revenue in the form of taxes and other duties.
In August 1887, a cousin of Friedrich Marschall, Martin Marschall (grandfather of Willi Marschall, Kettersbergerhof) emigrated to the USA together with an unnamed friend. Both had legal emigration papers. It may be assumed that Friedrich Marschall simply joined these two - albeit without an emigration permit.
From here on, this story deliberately becomes somewhat "nebulous" for understandable reasons:
One of the two fellow emigrants seems to have died on the way to the USA by ship. Friedrich Marschall was thus able to enter the USA "legally" with his papers. At that time, such passports did not have passport photos.
Further, but not verifiable, rumours say that Friedrich Marschall settled in the Portland (Oregon) area in the USA. This could well have been so, as my research has shown that - according to My Heritage - a Jakob Rebmann (born 1812 in Wattweiler) is said to have lived there - possibly a close relative of Karolina Rebmann (born 9.4.1811 in Wattweiler), the wife of Johann Nikolaus Marschall (one of my forefathers)? In addition, there are letters from another emigrated Wattweiler citizen: Jacob Conrad (son of Friedrich Joseph Rebmann), who at least in June 1896 stayed at Mount Hood/Oregon (about 30 km from Portland).
The purpose of Friedrich Marschall's declaration of death by his father-in-law on 30 August 1887 was obviously that his daughter Elisabeth Linz could legally take over the inheritance and possibly marry again.

If any of you had any info or other input here, I would be very grateful. You are welcome to contact me directly by E-Mail under: [email protected]
Thank you in advance for any effort and please excuse my "misuse" of this forum.
Best wishes,
Dieter H. Marschall.

https://www.myheritage.com/names/hilda_schulz is where you can find more info.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Thank you for your effort, but this Hilda Alwine Schulz was born in 1911 in South Australia! Best wishes, Dieter.

 

[Different.Drummer]

Hello Dieter,
There does in fact appear to be a death record recorded for Friedrich Marschall in the German records.
Looks like there is a birth record but no image on line of the document There is also actual images of the marriage and death recordings. I am not saying the death record is accurate, just that it exists.
If you used Ancestry.com for your DNA testing, when you get your DNA results they will give you a list of people that you have DNA matches with. If any of them have done research or made family trees you can go to their tree and see if you recognize anyone on the tree as a common ancestor to you. There is also a system similar to the personal message system here that you can communicate with them through. Of course, you will have to join Ancestry to do that. Your matches will be listed in order of how strong a match they are to you. It takes a while to get used to using Ancestry and one of the pitfalls is that so many people place people on their trees that don't belong and often it is easy to proceed down a rabbit hole during your search. It can be like the internet, you must have your mind set to filter mode constantly.
There is also a record of the birth of Karolina who was the daughter of Friedrich Marschall and Elisabetha Marschall ( Linz ) I spell her first name exactly as it is written on the marriage record.
This birth occurred after the alleged death of Friedrich.
Sorry I cannot offer more. Many of the records I see are many pages long and are hand written in German. The only German I know is what a German woman I worked with taught me and they are all curse words!!

Also, something to keep in mind is that a number of the ships that carried people across from Europe made port in Canada. I am searching for my Grandmother who immigrated to the US around 1885-1895. I discovered that at one point the population of Quebec City was as much Irish as it was French!
Good luck. I will see if anything more is available.
Regards, DD

Edit: Birth record for Karolina Marschall daughter of Friedrich Marschall and Elisabetha Marschall ( Linz) is recorded as Sept. 12, 1893 in Webenheim.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Hello "DD",
This is what I found out about my great-grandfather, Friedrich Marschall, his wife Elisabeth(a), née Linz, and their children:
Descendants of Friedrich and Elisabeth(a) Marschall:
According to the birth certificates of the registry office in Webenheim (in today's Saarland), Friedrich and Elisabeth(a) Marschall, née Linz, had three children before his death (resp. emigration to the USA?): Elisabeth(a) Marschall (born 26.7.1978), who married the butcher Hermann Dörner (born 16.4.1855) on 30.12.1899, and my grandfather, Hermann Marschall sen. (born 14.4.1881 in Wattweiler, died 27.1.1928 in Zweibrücken-Bubenhausen). In addition, the daughter Katharina Marschall was born in 1883. According to the death certificate of 28.10.1883, she was only six months and 10 days old, when she died.
After the death (or emigration?) of Friedrich Marschall in 1887, Elisabeth(a) obviously did not remain the "grieving widow" for long, for she gave birth - according to birth certificates - to two more daughters: Karolina on 13.9.1893 and Katharina again on 9.8.1898. Both daughters took their mother's maiden name, Linz, as their surname. In both cases, due to the lack of a husband, the midwife, Katharina Linz, also had to report the birth to the Webenheim registry office.

Thank you again for your time and effort,
Best wishes,
Dieter.

 

[Different.Drummer]

Hello "DD",
This is what I found out about my great-grandfather, Friedrich Marschall, his wife Elisabeth(a), née Linz, and their children:
Descendants of Friedrich and Elisabeth(a) Marschall:
According to the birth certificates of the registry office in Webenheim (in today's Saarland), Friedrich and Elisabeth(a) Marschall, née Linz, had three children before his death (resp. emigration to the USA?): Elisabeth(a) Marschall (born 26.7.1978), who married the butcher Hermann Dörner (born 16.4.1855) on 30.12.1899, and my grandfather, Hermann Marschall sen. (born 14.4.1881 in Wattweiler, died 27.1.1928 in Zweibrücken-Bubenhausen). In addition, the daughter Katharina Marschall was born in 1883. According to the death certificate of 28.10.1883, she was only six months and 10 days old, when she died.
After the death (or emigration?) of Friedrich Marschall in 1887, Elisabeth(a) obviously did not remain the "grieving widow" for long, for she gave birth - according to birth certificates - to two more daughters: Karolina on 13.9.1893 and Katharina again on 9.8.1898. Both daughters took their mother's maiden name, Linz, as their surname. In both cases, due to the lack of a husband, the midwife, Katharina Linz, also had to report the birth to the Webenheim registry office.

Thank you again for your time and effort,
Best wishes,
Dieter.

Dieter,
Obviously the Karolina I found came along after the departure of Friedrich. Sounds like you have a good handle on the events of his life right up until his falling off the face of the earth. I can identify with your situation as I have very similar circumstances involving my Grandmother and a Great Grandfather. I have been 20 years trying to solve some mysteries.
Back to you, You must have some very good evidence that Friedrich did not die when it was claimed he did. But, just to cover all the bases I would suggest eliminating without a doubt that he is not buried somewhere in Germany. I mean, what did they allegedly do with his body? Bury it in the potato field behind the barn?
Also, if he came to the US using the deceased travelers legal papers I would guess he would have to use the deceased persons name. Not knowing that name really adds some difficulty to the equation. He may have used that name right up until his death. I have discovered some pretty strange things during my research.
Hopefully when you get your DNA results it will open some doors. Perhaps you will find some close matches to people in or near Portland OR, USA. If any of them are willing to communicate with you , there may be some hope down that road. For me, unfortunately too many of the people I contact choose to not even reply to my query.
Good luck,
DD

 

[Kar98]

... He may have used that name right up until his death. I have discovered some pretty strange things during my research.
..

I know several people who used a name completely different from their birth certificate their entire lives for a variety of reasons.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Dieter,
Obviously the Karolina I found came along after the departure of Friedrich. Sounds like you have a good handle on the events of his life right up until his falling off the face of the earth. I can identify with your situation as I have very similar circumstances involving my Grandmother and a Great Grandfather. I have been 20 years trying to solve some mysteries.
Back to you, You must have some very good evidence that Friedrich did not die when it was claimed he did. But, just to cover all the bases I would suggest eliminating without a doubt that he is not buried somewhere in Germany. I mean, what did they allegedly do with his body? Bury it in the potato field behind the barn?
Also, if he came to the US using the deceased travelers legal papers I would guess he would have to use the deceased persons name. Not knowing that name really adds some difficulty to the equation. He may have used that name right up until his death. I have discovered some pretty strange things during my research.
Hopefully when you get your DNA results it will open some doors. Perhaps you will find some close matches to people in or near Portland OR, USA. If any of them are willing to communicate with you , there may be some hope down that road. For me, unfortunately too many of the people I contact choose to not even reply to my query.
Good luck,
DD

Hello DD,
two scenarios are possible:
a) Friedrich's father-in-law managed to convince the registry office that his son-in-law had died in his home in 1887. Plus the fact that there is an entry in the church register, that Friedrich was buried in Wattweiler in the same year. Then it is pretty clear that the priest had seen the body and had it carried to its grave. A priest would not normally have walked behind an empty coffin to its burial.
b) Friedrich's father-in-law managed to convince the registry office that his son-in-law had died in his home in 1887. Plus the fact that there is no entry in the church register, that Friedrich was buried in Wattweiler in the same year. Then it is pretty clear that the priest had not seen the body and had it not carried to its grave. A priest would not normally have walked behind an empty coffin to its burial. So his death certificate was a fake.
Next week I will have access to the church register of 1887 in order to find out what was really the case.
Best wishes,
Dieter.

 

[HerrZnk]

Very interesting thread, I feel as if I am watching a History Channel program.

 

[Different.Drummer]

Hello DD,
two scenarios are possible:
a) Friedrich's father-in-law managed to convince the registry office that his son-in-law had died in his home in 1887. Plus the fact that there is an entry in the church register, that Friedrich was buried in Wattweiler in the same year. Then it is pretty clear that the priest had seen the body and had it carried to its grave. A priest would not normally have walked behind an empty coffin to its burial.
b) Friedrich's father-in-law managed to convince the registry office that his son-in-law had died in his home in 1887. Plus the fact that there is no entry in the church register, that Friedrich was buried in Wattweiler in the same year. Then it is pretty clear that the priest had not seen the body and had it not carried to its grave. A priest would not normally have walked behind an empty coffin to its burial. So his death certificate was a fake.
Next week I will have access to the church register of 1887 in order to find out what was really the case.
Best wishes,
Dieter.

Intriguing, let us know as soon as you know. I can tell you that when you start doing the detective work it is not unusual to uncover some weird things.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Hello "DD",
If some of your ancestors were German, I can perhaps help you finding them. After all I am pretty familiar with our history and geography. When doing my research, I often found entries like "Bavaria" as a birthplace - only because our country "Palatinate" was Bavarian for some time. Other times it was French.
The officials on Ellis Island had a reputation of "butchering" names, especially the complicated ones. Maybe a German "Marschall" was quite lucky then, as he only "lost" a "-c-".
Best wishes,
Dieter.

 

[Different.Drummer]

Hello "DD",
If some of your ancestors were German, I can perhaps help you finding them. After all I am pretty familiar with our history and geography. When doing my research, I often found entries like "Bavaria" as a birthplace - only because our country "Palatinate" was Bavarian for some time. Other times it was French.
The officials on Ellis Island had a reputation of "butchering" names, especially the complicated ones. Maybe a German "Marschall" was quite lucky then, as he only "lost" a "-c-".
Best wishes,
Dieter.

Thank you for your kind offer. I do not want to derail your thread.
I do in fact have german ancestry on my mothers side. The name is Borter. Coincidently his name is Friedrich and his wife's name is Catherine. Both born in Wurttemberg. Friedrich born in 1834 ( March?) Though I did see somewhere the date of 1835 as well for his birth. Catherine born in 1833. Friedrich immigrated into the US in 1859. I do not have a maiden name for Catherine and cannot determine if they married in Germany and immigrated together or if she came to the US and they married here in the States. I do not have records or leads on either of their parents.
Any marriage or birth records for either as well as any information on their parents are all desirable information. Of course in Catherines case I need to discover her maiden name before I can make any progress on her and her parents.
My DNA shows me being pretty strong in Germanic Europe second only to my strong Irish leaning due to my Grandmother who immigrated here from Ireland probably between 1883 and 1893. My Father was born in 1895.
Regards,
DD

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Thank you for your kind offer. I do not want to derail your thread.
I do in fact have german ancestry on my mothers side. The name is Borter. Coincidently his name is Friedrich and his wife's name is Catherine. Both born in Wurttemberg. Friedrich born in 1834 ( March?) Though I did see somewhere the date of 1835 as well for his birth. Catherine born in 1833. Friedrich immigrated into the US in 1859. I do not have a maiden name for Catherine and cannot determine if they married in Germany and immigrated together or if she came to the US and they married here in the States. I do not have records or leads on either of their parents.
Any marriage or birth records for either as well as any information on their parents are all desirable information. Of course in Catherines case I need to discover her maiden name before I can make any progress on her and her parents.
My DNA shows me being pretty strong in Germanic Europe second only to my strong Irish leaning due to my Grandmother who immigrated here from Ireland probably between 1883 and 1893. My Father was born in 1895.
Regards,
DD

Hello "DD",
When you ancestor came to the USA as early as 1859, he came through Garden City, N.Y., and not Ellis Island, which opened in 1892 only.
Borter is a very unusual German name. Maybe it was initially Boerter and the immigration officials changed it to Borter. In the "Ancestry" files there are some Borters mentioned in Pennsylvania, e.g. a Friedrich Borter with his wife Catherine, née Fasbender, and their child August.
By the way, your are welcome to write to me via E-mail to dhimarshall(at)gmx.de
Best wishes,
Dieter.

 

[Different.Drummer]

Hello "DD",
When you ancestor came to the USA as early as 1859, he came through Garden City, N.Y., and not Ellis Island, which opened in 1892 only.
Borter is a very unusual German name. Maybe it was initially Boerter and the immigration officials changed it to Borter. In the "Ancestry" files there are some Borters mentioned in Pennsylvania, e.g. a Friedrich Borter with his wife Catherine, née Fasbender, and their child August.
By the way, your are welcome to write to me via E-mail to dhimarshall(at)gmx.de
Best wishes,
Dieter.

Thank you Dieter,
I will continue any further discussion via e-mail.
Just a Note, I think you meant Castle Garden not Garden City. Castle Garden was where immigration occurred before Ellis Island. It is at the very tip of Manhatten. Garden City is located out on Long Island and is pretty well land locked.
Easy mix up to make.
I am anxious to see what you find on your Great Grandfather.
Seems we all have our mysteries to solve.
I have a brother that was killed in the battle for "Brest" in Brittany France. If you are familiar you know it was a particularly difficult engagement. He was originally reported as "slightly wounded". Next word was that he died in a hospital from his wounds. Originally he was interred in a cemetery in Brittany. Later he was exhumed and returned to the States where there was a military funeral. We have always traveled to Athol, MA to visit the grave and decorate it on Memorial Day. Been doing that for many years with my Dad when he was alive and for many years since his passing. My Dad and my Grandfather are buried on the same site. Just two years ago I was reading a book written by a pretty well respected military historian. The title is, " From Beachhead to Brittany". Right there in his book he mentions my brother by name and rank. He recounts that my brother was initially listed as MIA because all that was recovered was his wallet and a leg. Then makes the statement that he was never found! You can imagine my utter surprise and disbelief. I contacted the author and he stands by his research and it's accuracy. He said that all of his information comes from official military records and documents.
That is another mystery I am trying to solve.