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Discussion Starter #1
New walther CCP my daughter in law bought. Around 300 rounds thru it and still issues with failure to feed. Thinking it might be her limp wristing, I fired it and had the same number of failures. Closer inspection noted that the round was hitting the exposed firing pin and stopping it from feeding. Also after the range, and inspecting brass (yes I reload) I noticed an interesting marking on the primers. We were also shooting a Walther PPX, same ammo with no issues. Pictures attached show the failure to feed and the primer strikes from PPX vs CCP... something is not right here. Anyone have any ideas what is going on here?
 

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What is your overall length on the reloads? Powder and charge? I reload and shoot a CCP problem free.
 

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Have you fired commercially loaded ammo? Suggest you use something like Federal American Eagle FMJ 124gr.....I shoot that round in all 9mm and also use their 45acp 230gr FMJ. Never had an ammo issue with CCP.
 

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I'm on CCP vacation but I suspect your ammo is not powerful enough to fully cycle the slide. The CCP striker is only caught by the sear when the slide is almost fully rearward. Unless the striker is caught, the nose of the firing pin will follow the slide forward. Try more powerful commercial ammo for a quick test and make sure you are using copper clad ammo...not bare lead reloads. There is a small hole at the front of the chamber that bleeds of a measured amount of gas to control recoil of the slide. Bare lead can stop it up and get into the cylinder. Good luck. M1911

Oh yeah.....dangit....welcome
 

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Discussion Starter #5
my reloads are slightly shorter, and work flawlessly in all other 9's... but this is factory ammo (federal 115 fmj) used that had ftf and fte. fewer fte... the real question is why is the firing pin sticking out and catching the feeding round? and why does the firing pin, when a feeding cartridge get past it, it then appears to scratch across the primer? this does not look good to me. I see an eventual slam fire or detonation before chambering.
 

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http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/faq-ccp/42270-liabitity-issue-unsafe-weapon.html

There is more information on the CCP up in the FAQ section at the top of the page. The condition you are concerned with is thoroughly discussed in the above thread I believe. No out of battery or unintended discharges to date that I've read about.......but, is it a good design? I'm on vacation....apparently the rest of this crowd is sleeping off a big Easter meal. :) M1911
 

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Discussion Starter #7
1917-1911M thanks, I read that. difference here is the round fired... even though the striker was not "cocked". I don't see how this happens? in order for the pictured primer (top case, bottom case is from the ppk) to get the marks it has, the firing pin had to be protruding during feed... hence not "cocked", yet the round fired when the trigger was pulled. As I am understanding the function, the firing pin will not protrude unless the slide was not fully cycled???
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also, the slide always locks when mag is empty, normally my indicator that the ammo is powerfull enough to fully cycle that weapon.
 

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.....difference here is the round fired... even though the striker was not "cocked". I don't see how this happens? in order for the pictured primer (top case, bottom case is from the ppk) to get the marks it has, the firing pin had to be protruding during feed... hence not "cocked", yet the round fired when the trigger was pulled. As I am understanding the function, the firing pin will not protrude unless the slide was not fully cycled???
We have determined That the striker must be cocked to fire. As 1911 indicated many members including myself have tested with snap ammo and live ammo and could not generate a slam discharge.

The firing pin is full forward and protruding thru the breech until the striker is caught by the sear and cocked....that is how the CCP was "designed". It sounds like your primer was scratched or dented in the slide cycle process. A few members did report and showed photos of dented primers as they tested for a slam discharge but again no discharge occurred.

Is that a good design or the best design.....many do not think so and suggest alternatives but that view is not necessarily shared by ALL members.
 

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Odd thing, when I click on your picture it rotates and the top round is on the right side of the picture. I should make it clear I don't have a CCP and there are others here that can address what they are seeing on the primer of their ammo. I have seen plenty of ammo where the firing pin streaks across the face of the primer. I would suppose that as the round is in the process of being extracted/ejected there is enough residual pressure against the spent case to keep it forced against the firing pin enough to cause a streak. I don't recall seeing one exactly like what your round shows. Perhaps someone here has a good explanation for this. I could understand the marks better in a pistol with a Browning lock but the CCP is a fixed barrel.

How the CCP striker is supposed to work is pretty simple. The sear is way back there....similar to the location of the sear on a hammer pistol. So, the slide has to pull the striker far enough rearward so that the bottom hook can get behind the sear then be caught in a fully retracted (cocked) position while the slide moves forward, chambering the next round and closing. If the slide simply doesn't move rearward enough for the striker to be caught, the striker which is still being pressed forward against the inner face of the breech....simply moves forward with the slide....firing pin sticking out.

No one has been able to make the spring loaded, fully forward striker ignite a primer that I am aware of....at least it hasn't been posted here. So how could the firing pin of the striker indent a round enough for it to ignite.....only three ways that I can think of. 1. fully cocked striker is released from the sear by pulling the trigger. 2. fully cocked striker has the lower leg break off which releases the striker essentially in the same manner as a trigger pull, or 3. in some manner the striker is fully forward and is jammed by dirt, broken part in the striker channel, broken striker spring, etc. and as the slide moves forward, stripping and chambering a round, the mass of the slide being powered forward by the striker spring and recoil spring causes the nose of the jammed firing pin to hit the primer hard enough to ignite it. Has this been reported....not to my knowledge although one owner did report and pictured a broken lower striker leg.

One question that remains...would a protruding firing pin that is jammed forward block the chambering of a round????? as the rim tries to slide up the face of the breech??? I don't know. I know we have one picture of a broken off firing pin....why did it break???? We don't know.

What we have mostly seemed to agree on is that the striker in a properly operating pistol neither has the mass or velocity to ignite a primer should it follow the slide forward from not being caught by the sear.

I don't know what happened with your pistol. I'll admit......that firing pin mark looks pretty odd to me. Have you inspected the striker? The striker channel and striker spring? Everything moving smoothly. It has been noted I believe a number of times that some feel the bulk 115 g ammo is on the ragged edge of being able to fully cycle the slide. 124 g might work better until the pistol is better broken in.....this pistol can run 100% or can be a bundle of worms. Part of this is in the design of the rear components and part is in the fairly unique gas chamber.

I see no way for the striker to be forward, i.e., not cocked and be fired when pulling the trigger. The CCP has no DA capability. I'm on vacation.....there are several Members around here with these pistols that understand their function pretty much spot on. They will be around shortly I expect. Good luck with it. M1911
 

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The striker on a CCP will not be cocked unless the slide is pushed back all the way during a cycle. If you are getting a scrape from the striker sticking out, it may be jammed in the "uncocked" position for some reason.

If you're comfortable with more disassembly, I'd take the striker cup/slide catch out of the slide, pull the striker spring out, and give the striker channel a good lookover. With the spring removed from behind the striker, you should be able to push the striker back and forth and see if there is anything causing it to stick.
 

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I took my wife to the range this weekend to shoot her CCP for the first time and she experienced 4 failure to feed out of 164 shots. In hers, the slide did not complete a full cycle and fully load a cartridge into the chamber. She lightly tapped the rear of the slide and resumed firing. We were shooting Winchester 115gr FMJ; which is all I shoot in my S&W M&P 9, 40 shield, Sigma 9, and Bersa .380 without failure. I did notice on a few of the magazine reloads that the cartridges did not appear to be properly aligned and emptied and reloaded the magazine, so it may have been a magazine misfeed that I did not catch, and I did not think to capture the brass and examine the striker pin, but because the slide was only a few millimeters from being fully seated, it didn't appear that the cartridge was catching on anything. If it happens again, I will try to get better data. Now, if there was only an easier way to clean the pistol...
 

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difference here is the round fired... even though the striker was not "cocked". I don't see how this happens? in order for the pictured primer (top case, bottom case is from the ppk) to get the marks it has, the firing pin had to be protruding during feed... hence not "cocked", yet the round fired when the trigger was pulled.
There is no way the round can fire unless the striker was cocked (barring the as-yet to be witnessed slam fire from an uncocked striker). However, the firing pin protrudes from the breech face at all times except when the slide begins to move forward after being fully retracted allowing the sear to catch the striker. There is a brief point during the forward movement of the slide prior to the sear catching the striker where the firing pin is still protruding from the breech face and can contact the round being chambered if it pops up out of the magazine before the sear catches the striker. Maybe that is what's happening with your gun.
 

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From the pictures it is obvious that the gun fired normally, the slide moved back far enough to pick another round from the magazine, but not far enough to lock the striker back. The slide then moved forward with the round from the magazine. As the round moved forward, it caught on the firing pin as it slid up the breech face causing the jam. Either the ammo is too weak, or something is jamming up in the striker channel or the piston cylinder, causing it not to cycle all the way back.

The picture of the two fired cases show good firing pin hits with the primer extruding somewhat into the firing pin hole in the breech. One gun has a round firing pin hole, the other is rectangular. Both look normal for a higher pressure round like the 9mm Luger with soft thin small pistol primers.
 

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Only one thing powers the slide forward when chambering a round....the recoil spring. As we know the recoil spring in the CCP is fairly light weight. The rebounding slide has to overcome friction with the frame, shove a round out of the magazine, allow it to slide up the face of the breech block, shove the round fully into the chamber and completely close while pressing the extractor forward where it is likely pressed outward a bit by the chamber. So, quite a few things for the recoil spring to accomplish...and if anything along the line is dirty, not lubed enough or the chamber is a bit dirty...then it might be too much for the weaker recoil spring. Add to this...there is the gas piston moving forward in the gas chamber.

If this problem showed up on a lot of pistols....perhaps just a bit stronger recoil spring would benefit the pistol.....but, that will have to be balanced with the resistance created by the gas chamber. A little bit more of a complicated pistol to balance properly.....with various ammo, weights and degrees of fouling.

115g might be fine for range work but 124g or more might be the cure for really reliable cycling. M1911
 

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That CCP primer does not look normal to me. The normal one was fired out of a PPK as I recall. If for some reason the firing pin was stuck forward, somehow got behind the round being chambered and fired it as the slide closed then this is a serious issue and I can only imagine it occurring with a struck striker. The OP seems to be saying the striker was not caught by the sear but the round fired when the trigger was pulled resulting in the odd mark on the primer. I can't see this happening. I'm failing to see any reason why pulling the trigger on an uncocked striker could in any way fire a chambered round. There is nothing the trigger/sear releases that would impact the primmer unless the sear was actually cocked and caught by the sear. M1911
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you all for input on this issue. My son brought the pistol over to check out last night. We looked much closer at the function and agreed that this is probably due to weak ammo. When the slide is pulled back slowly, there is a definite increase in resistance in the last 1/2 inch, which would allow it to pick up a round before "cocking" the striker. Did not find any issues with the firing pin or spring and it cocked reliably whenever fully cycled. Kinda defeats the purpose of a pistol that is supposed to reduce felt recoil, when you have to use hot loads to get it to cycle reliably. fyi my 9mm loads are 124 gr rnfmj, tight group 4.2 gr, coal 1.120. Also loaded some 115 g xtp hp with the same powder charge and both work great in my wifes tarus millennium g2.
 

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I also reload, and as I've mentioned in a previous post, I have to go all the way to the max load according to my reloading manual, to get the CCP to cycle 100% with 115gr. bullets. My standard plinking load, which is about 10% less powder, and probably comparable to cheaper target ammo, will cycle the clean pistol for a couple of magazines before I start to get occasional failures to eject, stovepipes, etc. My guess is that fouling in the piston cylinder causes a better seal and thus greater resistance to cycling.

I have also noticed that favorable reviews of the CCP on the web tested the gun with hotter ammo, which is reasonable for a carry pistol, while unfavorable reviews used target ammo. The gun likes a narrow range of pressure that is on the high end. That's OK for those of us who reload, since a half a grain of powered per round is insignificant from a cost standpoint, but gets pricey for those who do not.
 

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Yes, the layout is a bit different from the few striker pistols I'm familiar with. Those have a very short stroke to cock the striker and the P99 even has a DA mode. Wobbly maintains this is an ancient and early design and one dropped long ago in the design of striker pistols. I don't know....but...the slide must certainly be almost fully retracted in order to cock the pistol. Then there is the question of powder and debris changing the balance of the piston/gas chamber resistance. No answer to that one either. Time will tell. M1911
 
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