Walther Forums banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I purchased my PPS 9mm last November as my summer carry. Up until last friday I had not problems with the weapon. Even went through a MAG-40 class with it! I've cycled ±500 rounds of 115gr FMJ and 200 rounds of Hornady TAP. I want to up performance my SD ammunition so I purchased Speer 124gr GDHP and Winchester Ranger 127gr T-Series. I own a 6 round magazine, a 7 round magazine, and two 8 round magazines. My first test was the Ranger, I load all magazines and sit up iso two handed hold. First magazine, bang, bang, FTF. To clear I needed to pull the slide back, drop the magazine and the round dropped free. The JHP hung up on the land between the magazine feed ramp and the barrel feed ramp. As I cycled through the Ranger ammo the most I could get was two round and then a FTF! The same thing happen to the Speer!
I've sent the weapon back to Walther/S & W for their fix. My question, has anyone else gone through this issue with Walther/ S & W? I don't know if I can trust the weapon as a Carry since this happened, that is unless I want to carry it with TAP ammunition!:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
I carry TAP in my P99 on occasion. I find it to be as good as any other SD ammo out there.

It's strange about your FTF's, though.

Have you tried the TAP or FMJ's since you experienced your feed problems?

I'd start there, then rule out any chance of it being magazine related.

Hope you get the resolution you need. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
I carry the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P SB in my PPS, firing a 20 round box of it through the pistol every 2 months or so. My practice ammo is usually either Winchester White Box or Blazer Brass 115 gr. I also went through 3 boxes of Hornady TAP when I couldn't get any Gold Dot. TAP is a good load, I just like the GD better as there seemed to be a bit less muzzle flash. I wouldn't feel bad carrying either.
Never had a failure with any of these.
A PPS should eat all of these without any hiccups and if not go in for warranty repair as you have done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I'd start there, then rule out any chance of it being magazine related.
Dudeman and Davek Thanks for the response!

In regards to the magazines, I cycled both my 115gr Blazer and TAP after the FTF and "No Problemo" with any of the 4 magazines. I was hoping that was the issue! For my other 9mm (HK P30 & P2K sk) I normally carry the Winchester Ranger. Those don't have a problem with with either GD or Ranger. The weapon is in with Walther/ S & W and we'll see what they can do to correct the issue. I was just hoping someone when thru the same issue and had "GREAT" results Walther/ S & W correcting it. I was really liking the carry factor of the PPS. This is worst feeling than dealing with the ex-wife.:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Update after S & W Repair

Received the pistol back after 6 weeks and S & W did the following:

1. Replace Extractor
2. Replace Spring
3. Repair Burrs

Today I finally had time for the range. Load up my carry ammo Winchester Ranager +P RA9TA 127 gr into my 6 round, 7 round and 2 ea 8 round magazines. Started with the 8 round magazines and had the following experience with the first: Bang, Bang, FTF (Failure to Feed). See pictures below:







After clearing the jam, I continued with all the magazines. Out of 60 rounds of Ranger, I had 3 FTF. The only good thing is I isolated these FTF to only one 8 round magazines :confused: :mad: Before it was happening with all the magazines :mad:

The weapon ran 50 rounds of Hornady TAP like it was ball ammo :)

So some goods and some bad. I'll polish the feed ramp and see if that correct the issue with all the magazines.

Only great thing today was I ran 100 rounds of Ranger 9mm +P+ thru my P2000 SK without any issues other than 10 rounds in the -3 area at 7 yards :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
What does your cartridge loading ramp look like? With use mine developed a fair amount of brass transfer on it. Most all of the newer PPS have the feed ramp polished (smooth and shinny), but the cartridge loading ramp is black and tends to collect brass residue.

I took mine to a gunsmith friend who polished the cartridge ramp just like the feed ramp. All my failure to feed and failure to eject problems stopped. I posted this info in another recent thread, but he felt the tight tolerances of the PPS can be negatively impacted by the brass transfer build up. Don't send it back to Walther (S&W) without polishing first and trying. It also allows it to retain an oily slick finish and will no longer show any transfer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,841 Posts
I have found many rounds of Winchester ammunition of different OAL!! Doesn't matter if it's white box or the Ranger series. I know what OAL length works in the PPS & what doesn't. I measure ALL Winchester ammo I have & correct the length. If it's too short, put it in my bullrt puller and give it a few taps. Too long, just run it thru my reloading press to seat correct OAL. Just did 8 rounds of a box of 100!!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,891 Posts
As posted here on 9/1/2010:
http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=131351

My 9mm PPS has happily eaten every form of FMJ (range) ammo I've put through it -- including reloaded range ammo. My former SD ammo in my Glock 19 was Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr +P JHP and I found my PPS did not care for this ammo; it has a very long nose (larger OAL) resulting in hang ups when feeding, even after break-in. I moved from it to Federal HST 124gr JHP because of this as well as to avoid +P rounds (which will cause extra wear on the PPS).
YMMV

Surreal
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the responses and I'll try to answer all.

1. As for the feed ramp (2002 vintage PPS), S & W "Deburred" it but their process left horz. swirls (Maybe used a Dremel pad?)! So I'll take some 600/800 grit and some jeweler's compound and polish the ramps (1 in the receiver and 1 on the barrel where the round hang up.) IMHO it is the PPS' small form factor which leads to these feed ramp and ammo issues. Unlike the Ruger LC9 the PPS can handle +P rounds without voiding the warranty.:eek:

2. As for the ammo itself, I'm not found of having weapon specific ammo, i.e., GD for my PPS and Ranger for my H & Ks etc. With that said I order some GD Short Barrel to test after I polish the feed ramp. What do you put in your bug out bag? Do you have a summer and winter bags? etc.

Next range trip I'll get back to my original plan of Crono'g both my P2000 sk (Winter Carry) and the PPS (Summer Carry, but not this summer!). I'll see the differences between the PPS with +P and the P2000 sk with +P+. I had hoped to use both Ranger +P & +P+ for the comparsion, but we'll be comparing Ranger +P+ to GD short barrel.

Maybe try a set with the Ranger +P for the test even though I"ll not carry it in my PPS.:rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Don't confuse the feed ramp with the cartridge loading ramp. Most all of the PPS feed ramps I've seen pics of are polished, but the cartridge loading ramp has a black finish on it from the factory. Polishing it (like the feed ramp) eliminated my FTE and loading problems that started happening after I had enough brass build up on it. The cartridge loading ramp is the flat piece under the slide you see after removing. If you have any brass color on yours, you are building up residue. Eventually, it will start presenting problems due to the very close tolerances of the PPS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
UPDATE

After getting all the supplies to polish the feed ramps, I've spent about an hour working on the barrel first and then on the ramp in the receiver. See Pictures of the feed ramp in the receiver.







If you look closely at the first you can barely make of the splits on the stamping.

The other two after the polishing the splits are more apparent.:eek:

I'm waiting on S & W CS now for an answer as to these splits in the stamping. :mad:

Good thing my P2000 sk is still loaded up and the summer is mild here in Clark County!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
onacoma: I've been following your posts on this problem with your PPS. I have a 9MM PPS puchased in March of 2011 and I have about 500 rounds through it, mostly 115 FMJ (both various commercial manufactuer and some handloads). I also experienced lead bullet reloads in .356 that were tumbling. FMJ have not tumbled. I have also fired some 124 grain FMJ & JHP and some 115 grain Cor Bon JHP in +p+. No failfures on any kind with this pistol - yet. My feed ramp is nice and shiney with no contours.

What I am most interested in is your experience with the pistol at the MAG-40 class. I am taking the same course in Harrisburg, PA in September. I plan to take the PPS as my back-up to my Glock 19 for the course. Did you have spare magazine holders for the PPS?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
What I am most interested in is your experience with the pistol at the MAG-40 class. I am taking the same course in Harrisburg, PA in September. I plan to take the PPS as my back-up to my Glock 19 for the course. Did you have spare magazine holders for the PPS?
MoonClip I took the class in April this year at the Clark County Range. The best money can buy, both the class and the range! :D

Most of the range time you'll use a 6 round load in your magazines or a for the revolvers a 5 shot. The final qualifing is a 60 rounds with a max of 6 rounds per magazine. So if you can afford the 10 magazines? I would take a minimum of 4 magazines as you'll have a classmate safety officer to reload the magazines during the pratice and qualifications. MAKE SURE YOU TAKE GOOD MAGAZINES OR TESTED SPEED LOADERS! Some of the 1911s showed up with cheap magazines and after the first day they were running to every gun store trying to fine magazines that ran in their gun.

I started with my PPS and changed up to my P30, both in 9mm. The range time is more Technic/Placement than Conceal Carry so an OWB Holster will work with the class. So on the third day I switch from my PPS/Crossbred Super Tuck to my P30/Serpa CQB. With both I had a two magazine belt pouch and pocket or waist band carried the third magazine.

I took range ammo, 115 gr FMJ for my ammo. Most was the cheap Blazer I got off MidSouth and some re-loads I picked up at a local gun show. Only shot ±400 rounds.

For the classroom, take a laptop or tablet for the notes or at least a good paper note book. After the class if you want to swap notes PM me and I'll send you mind for your records. Hopefully niether of us will ever have to use them in court! :eek:

As for my PPS, every FMJ i've feed it it spit it out without any problem, it is the SD that it seem to have a problem with! I really like the carry factor with this gun, otherwise I wouldn't have spent this much time with it! The few oz difference between my P2000 SK and the PPS really shows up at 5:00PM on a 120°f day here in Clark County. Lucky for me, we've been hovering around 100°f this summer and the P2000 is not pulling my shorts down to my ankles!:cool:

One final note, KEEP YOUR DAMN FINGER AWAY FROM THE TRIGGER AND KEEP THE GUN POINTED DOWN RANGE! :D

You'll hear that alot in the class and on the range as some never listen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Thanks for the info. I have lots of extra mags for the G19, but just three for the PPS. Did you have dedicated mag pouches for the PPS? If so what brand are they? I have a Stoner leather paddle holster for my PPS and an Uncle Mike's paddle holster and a DeSantis leater pancake style holster for the G19. I was planning on using Fobus mag holders for the Glock.

Are any of your troublesome SD loads +p?

I am attending the MAG-40 course with a friend and we can certainly pull resources on the notes.

Thanks again,
John (45MoonClip)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
For the magazine pouch I use a Fobus 4500BH two magazine single stack belt type. ± $26.00 and it will fit most single stack magazines. Your holsters all sound fine. In qualifing the only time in which draw will be important is the first stage. From the 4 yard line, you'll have 8 secs to get 6 rounds in the 10 spot. First 6 is off hand from the low ready and next 6 is strong hand draw. Make up rounds are from the 15 yard line. The rest of the stages you'll have enough time to shoot and go have lunch before the buzzer sounds!:D Maybe a little BS there!:rolleyes: Alot to learn in 40 hours but well worth the expense and time on the legal side.

All of my issues are +P. The hang ups, FTF, are all now Winchester Ranger which seem everyone has a problems with in a PPS. Until I found the split in the receiver stamped parts I was resolved to run only GD SB +P which doesn't hang up on the barrel feed ramp.

Let me know and we'll exchange notes. Mas will have you Certify Mail your note to yourself for legal reason he'll explain in the class.

The Money bracket is on qualifing day! Shoot a 300 with a tighter group than Mas and you get a bonus. Shoot the high score and you'll collect from all your class mates! So off to the range for pratice. 4, 7, 10, and 15 yard lines. Standing, Kneeling, ISO, Weaver, Modified Weaver! :eek: Have Fun while you learn!:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
That's too bad, I never had a failure of any kind with my 9mm pps. It ate speer gold dot 124+p, and federal hst 124 and 147 like candy. Do you seat the rounds all the way to the rear of the magazine when you load them? If not, that may explain the nosedives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
carbofan21 - Trust me when I say I've been thru all the possible issues, i.e., limp wrist, magazine spring, different magazines, loading the magazines, etc. From the last set of Pictures there two splits in the receiver feed ramp. one on each side. One of the splits extends close to the center of the ramp, so I'm assuming the nose of the round hangs just enough to cause the FTF. This is a piece of stamped sheet metal and it might have been a manufacturering QC issue as this weapon is a 2002 version. Ball ammo goes thru without any problems.

So now I'm sending it back to S & W CS for the second time! :eek: The first time it took six weeks! :mad: All they did was replace the extractor and spring. Then a deburr? Whatever that is to S & W CS!

Right now I'm of a mine to camp out at the 2012 Shot Show Walther Booth and tell everyone what I consider is inept Customer Service S & W has when dealing with Walther Repairs! :mad: The guys in the Booth are from Walther's Germany operations and not S & W. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
carbofan21 - Trust me when I say I've been thru all the possible issues, i.e., limp wrist, magazine spring, different magazines, loading the magazines, etc. From the last set of Pictures there two splits in the receiver feed ramp. one on each side. One of the splits extends close to the center of the ramp, so I'm assuming the nose of the round hangs just enough to cause the FTF. This is a piece of stamped sheet metal and it might have been a manufacturering QC issue as this weapon is a 2002 version. Ball ammo goes thru without any problems.
I am really quite amazed that you have repeatedly stated in this thread that you own a 2002 vintage Walther PPS. Dude, the Walther PPS did not exist then. The gun did not first come on the market until 2007. How on earth you could possibly believe that you own a 2002 version is beyond any understanding.

So now I'm sending it back to S & W CS for the second time! :eek: The first time it took six weeks! :mad: All they did was replace the extractor and spring. Then a deburr? Whatever that is to S & W CS!
Gee, it took me over twelve weeks to get my PPS pistols back from being worked on by ROBAR. But I did not have a cow over it.

Out of 60 rounds of Ranger, I had 3 FTF. The only good thing is I isolated these FTF to only one 8 round magazines :confused: :mad: Before it was happening with all the magazines
So after all the work that has been done to the pistol, the FTF is now only happening when using Winchester's Ranger 127 gr +P+ Law Enforcement ammo. And you said that you even narrowed that down to a single magazine you owned.

Right now I'm of a mine to camp out at the 2012 Shot Show Walther Booth and tell everyone what I consider is inept Customer Service S & W has when dealing with Walther Repairs! :mad: The guys in the Booth are from Walther's Germany operations and not S & W. :rolleyes:
You are really overreacting.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Lance - I'll take them in order:

1st I stated that it is a 2002 version because the SS # Code is an "AC" which if I read previous post correctly that makes it a 2002 version even though the didn't come out until 2007 like you say! IT IS A PLAY ON THE CODES that are posted on this site!

2nd If I was have work done on my weapon that I wanted I would be willing to wait, however warranty work is not a personal preferrence!

3rd You are correct in that I was willing to accept the Ranger hang up/FTF and go with GD SB +P, good observation! However while polishing the feed ramps I found a 2 splits in the receiver stamping that is the feed ramp in the receiver. This was apparent before the polishing and more apparent after. Since this is a little above the same position where the round rest before the slide pulls the round out of the magazine and it slides up the receiver ramp, one can only assume this is the issue with not feeding the round. As a friend of mine who just happens to be a LE armor stated that a gunsmith would have caught this while inspecting the first time there was a FTF.

Lance maybe your are correct that I'm too picky, but given that none of my H & Ks have ever had a problem with feeding any ammo I'm just spoil to think that when someone spend the ±700.00 for a weapon to protect his family and others it should function correctly!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
458 Posts
Cheel Win Ston

Sounds like you have had quite a time getting your issues dealt with. I agree that it is sometimes excruciating to wait for a gun to come back from service (especially when they're new). It can piss you off for sure.
You don't have 'splits' in your feed ramp, it is layered from two pieces of metal. Every PPS I've seen has this because it's how they are manufactured.
I know the guys at PPStalk all inspected theirs after a similar thread emerged over there. Many posted pics, but that site was recently destroyed by a database corruption so you need to take my word for it.
Also, just FYI, the date code is left of your serial number (AC9088). 'AK' is your date code and translates to 2009 production. It is between the DE (Deutchland) and your serial number puctuated by the proofmarks on the right side of the slide.
I hope you can get past this because the PPS is a good weapon and from what I've read you sound like a good guy. Just pissed off.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top