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What do you believe the factory guide rod does during the recoil operation? Could you explain what is meant by "hitting the return spring" and "rollback".....those are terms I have not encountered before? What is the reduction in service life?
E-translator games.
The correct term is recoil.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/service life
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/service-life-of-glock-recoil-spring-assembly.1053377/

There are tons of discussions online about such issues.
https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/tungsten-recoil-spring-rod-for-gen-3-g19.1501588/
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1058488
https://glock.pro/glock-tech-warranty/5493-g27-new-tungsten-guide-rod-causing-problems-3.html
Glock recoil spring and guide rod
https://www.glockforum.com/threads/tungsten-guide-rod-problem.11289/

Just do not be too lazy to read. ;-)

Some are fine.
Others have understandable problems.
The third is completely incomprehensible...

An automatic weapon, the item is slightly less simple than a shoehorn.
And if someone believes that with the help of collective farm tuning he can improve something noticeably without ruining anything ...
... good luck.
Serious factories (and Walter is quite serious) attract quite serious engineers for their products. And these products have been produced for decades and millions.

And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.

This is Your gun.
This is Your money.
This is Your life.
Thinking is for You.
 

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Your responses might have someone believing that you are trolling? Still looking for your response to my questions.
So far, I only see a very classic troll question. LOL

Do you have some special education in gun making?
(Internet forums do not count ;-) )
If you have, then the answers to you should be so obvious.
Otherwise, you do not need it.
 

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Just do not be too lazy to read.

Read through virtually all of those and not surprisingly the posts were a complete mix of positive and only mildly negative. End result....nothing except disagreement.

You still have not addressed my questions. First, I am surprised to learn that the guide rod is not intended to remain in place and even more surprised to learn that the guide rod will hit something you describe as the "return spring" at the "roll back". Those are the parts and motions I wanted some explanation about.

In answer to your question I have no education in firearms gun making. However, I have just enough hands on experience to understand the basics and the operational aspects of a number of them and in that time I have not seen or heard the terms you used.

If you take the time to read almost any one of the Walther model forums you will probably discover that a number of design and production failures have produced mush less of the precision firearms you imply the engineers have provided...Those failures have occurred since the creation of the first model right up to today's models and there are a number of members on this forum who have literally assisted those cracker-jack engineers in correcting the errors!
 

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And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.
Sometimes that reason is cost, not performance. Is a plastic guide rod reliable, and does it produce acceptable performance? Yes. Given that, and the fact that the factory has to produce these guns to a price point, plastic is what they choose.

Note, however, that the tungsten rod which you have implied will damage the gun comes from the same factory, and is intended for use in the same gun by those same engineers. (Anyone who claims that a 4" PPQ and a P99 are not effectively the same gun in anything other than the presence/absence of a DA trigger stroke, a decocker, and some cosmetics is not paying attention - as IAOF said, the part numbers for the factory plastic-rod RSAs are the same between them.)

Ultimately, we can't know the long-term effect without testing it, but in my view, it's a very low-risk test. The only reason that I haven't bought the "PPQ" tungsten rod for my P99 is that I'm a cheapskate.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Serious factories (and Walter is quite serious) attract quite serious engineers for their products. And these products have been produced for decades and millions.

And each nail in them is just that and in that very place as it is for a reason.

Sorry chief, when i had a Glock 22 plastic recoil spring break into two pieces in my hand, I realized I had a lump of metal in my hand that did not work as intended. Since then, I have replaced all my Glock recoil springs with stainless steel or tungsten ones without any problems what so ever. So your post is just not credible to me. Where did you obtain this knowledge from - other than a bunch of posts on forums that have posters disagreeing with each other about the subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Read through virtually all of those and not surprisingly the posts were a complete mix of positive and only mildly negative. End result....nothing except disagreement.

If you take the time to read almost any one of the Walther model forums you will probably discover that a number of design and production failures have produced mush less of the precision firearms you imply the engineers have provided...Those failures have occurred since the creation of the first model right up to today's models and there are a number of members on this forum who have literally assisted those cracker-jack engineers in correcting the errors!
Like the "unintended magazine release" thread perhaps that caused the Walther sales manager to say to me, " Perhaps this pistol is not for you." Yeah right, beautiful piece of engineering that produced a magazine button spring that was too light and had to be replaced.
 

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Sometimes that reason is cost, not performance. Is a plastic guide rod reliable, and does it produce acceptable performance? Yes. Given that, and the fact that the factory has to produce these guns to a price point, plastic is what they choose.

Note, however, that the tungsten rod which you have implied will damage the gun comes from the same factory, and is intended for use in the same gun by those same engineers. (Anyone who claims that a 4" PPQ and a P99 are not effectively the same gun in anything other than the presence/absence of a DA trigger stroke, a decocker, and some cosmetics is not paying attention - as IAOF said, the part numbers for the factory plastic-rod RSAs are the same between them.)

Ultimately, we can't know the long-term effect without testing it, but in my view, it's a very low-risk test. The only reason that I haven't bought the "PPQ" tungsten rod for my P99 is that I'm a cheapskate.
This is good. And (probably ;-) ) correctly.

It’s just that you will answer the widow of the next village fool who will listen to your advice, buy another super-device and will be shot poking around with a delay or stoppage?
Say that your friend bought this and everything works fine for him? :)

Who performed the functional tests?
Was at least 10,000 rounds of ammunition shot, each of at least three pistols?
Let's guess the first time. ;-)

But there were tests of the American army, in which it turned out that the average reliability of the standard M4 carbine is necessarily reduced when any custom parts are installed on it. Even if it's a handle.
I am sure that absolutely the same thing happens with any weapon that is more complicated than a knife.

The recoil mechanism, in automatic weapons, is one of the most responsible. No less than a feeder.
And apparently you should not randomly climb into it with dirty fingers?

Sincerely.
 

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Who performed the functional tests?
Was at least 10,000 rounds of ammunition shot, each of at least three pistols?
I'd be quite surprised if Walther did not fire more than 10K rounds of ammunition testing the tungsten rod in PPQs, which, as MANY people have already explained MANY times on MANY forums, are the same gun as P99s in all mechanical aspects outside of the trigger.

I expect that the only reason it was not also explicitly tested and marketed for the P99 is that it's a nearly purely competition-focused part, and Walther views the PPQ Q5 and Q5 SF as their competition guns and the P99 as a duty gun.

Again, I'm too cheap to buy it for myself, but if you want to see the results and would be willing to purchase it for me, I'd be more than happy to run a "PPQ" tungsten guide rod in my P99 for 10K+ rounds and let you know how it goes. (My guess is that it would be 100% uneventful - that particular pistol has over 10K through it now, and the only stoppages in its log were a pair of rounds that sounded like squibs but thankfully cleared the barrel.)
 

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It’s just that you will answer the widow of the next village fool who will listen to your advice, buy another super-device and will be shot poking around with a delay or stoppage? Say that your friend bought this and everything works fine for him? :)
He did not give advice....it was a statement of fact as issued by the manufacturer. If you want spec info you need to contact Walther....good luck with that.

But there were tests of the American army, in which it turned out that the average reliability of the standard M4 carbine is necessarily reduced when any custom parts are installed on it. Even if it's a handle.
I am sure that absolutely the same thing happens with any weapon that is more complicated than a knife.
Please provide the military documentation supporting your statement. Here's some excellent information provided by what appears to be an expert in the use and maintenance of the M4 and other military individual weapons. You should read all of the article because he is recommending the use of commercial parts for the maintenance of the M4 and has a lot of test and statistical info.

AR-15/M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur, and Why They?re Our Fault! | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms n
 

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He did not give advice....it was a statement of fact as issued by the manufacturer. If you want spec info you need to contact Walther....good luck with that.



Please provide the military documentation supporting your statement. Here's some excellent information provided by what appears to be an expert in the use and maintenance of the M4 and other military individual weapons. You should read all of the article because he is recommending the use of commercial parts for the maintenance of the M4 and has a lot of test and statistical info.

AR-15/M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur, and Why They?re Our Fault! | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms n
Do not You find it strange to ask for evidence (or rebuttal) from the same person? :)
Usually, it was possible to observe similar at the Russian-speaking forums ... ;-)

The articles You indicated were read by me shortly after their publication. And they do not carry any information on the issue under consideration.
Or is it just an attempt to start another empty idle talk about the (no)reliability of the M16? LOL

The information came from a fairly serious source. Otherwise, I simply would not have paid attention to her.
If I can remember where it is, I will let You know. Perhaps those who know English better than me will be able to find faster.
And all sorts of "what appears to be an expert" and other homemade expert of the weapons, like the "world-famous expert Max Popenker", divorced like cows in India.

For those who are really interested in "how it works," it is recommended to study.
https://youtu.be/7Fr5ccyriJI



I hope there is enough material to sum up two and two.
 

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The potential problem with heavy recoil spring guides is that they will, in practice, act like anti-bounce inertial weights commonly used in the recoiling parts of fully automatic weapons, except in the other direction. Because the guide (i.e., the weight) is not securely anchored at either end, it "floats" depending on the degree of compression of the surrounding spring. As the bolt (or slide, in the case of handguns) cycles, the inertia of the heavy guide rod compresses the spring, and when the spring recovers, the guide is propelled to impart a delayed impact when the action returns to battery. The same effect is there also with a lightweight rod, simply much less pronounced.

I say it's a potential problem because one might not see any effect from it in any particular handgun design; that could only be determined by field test.

I can say from experience that I have seen damage to a steel-framed handgun prototype from inertial bouncing of a solid steel guide rod; the rear seating face in the frame, and the flange of the rod were severely peened to the point of interfering with field-stripping. In the course of testing the cause of the problem was recognized and cured in production guns by substituting a hollow steel guide rod to reduce its mass.

Recoil spring guide rods are not subject to particularly high stress when installed in the pistol. Most damage to them occurs during maladroit disassembly or reassembly. If a plastic one breaks, it's usually the result of defective material or manufacture.

I've never thought the difference in "muzzle-weight" (or "recovery", or "flip" or whatever rationale is used to justify them) was worthwhile or even noticeable to me. I think ammunition makes a much greater difference.

M
 

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Do not You find it strange to ask for evidence (or rebuttal) from the same person?
Thus far you are unable to provide the data (evidence) that a heavier guide rod is responsible for damage that renders the pistol unreliable or unusable. One off incidents do not signal a universal issue.

The articles You indicated were read by me shortly after their publication. And they do not carry any information on the issue under consideration. Or is it just an attempt to start another empty idle talk about the (no)reliability of the M16?
You made a general comment that modification or change to a factory firearm was fraught with danger. The article I posted clearly demonstrated that replacing factory parts could both improve operating effectiveness as well as life of the part.
 

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I talked to Earl today on a different matter but I also asked him if there is going to be any ill effects from using either stainless or tungsten guide rod for long term. He said there is no such concerns as long as its Walther made guide rod. (Thus I ordered a stainless one.)

ETA, I then asked if there is any benefits of using stainless or tungsten guide rod than the flexible rod. He said that they would provide more linear recoil movements, and .... others we already know.
 

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It appears that the entire subject of plastic vs heavier metal guide rods boils down to personal preference with no authoritative data supporting one over the other. Perhaps this thread has reached the end of its life?
 
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