Walther Forums banner

1 - 2 of 2 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,916 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
With apologies to a recent thread regarding early changes to Z-M PP pistols in 9mm/k I got interested in a few observations.

From what I gather, and I might be a bit wrong, it is my understanding that very early 9mmk pistols shared the same ejector concept and same style magazine and possibly follower as the 7.65mm pistol. It should be noted that the magazines for such do not have the rib for the expanded follower tab nor the tab as seen in modern 9mmk - .380 pistols. Needless to say the frame did not have the cutout for the rib in the early pistols either. Perhaps they even shared the follower with the 7.65mm pistol at the beginning. In any event a .32 mag will lock in a post war .380 pistol but the follower will not engage the ejector. Perhaps in the very early pistols the follower did just barely engage the ejector but as MGMike said...a bit of wear, and function stopped or was erratic.

To solve this issue Walther redesigned the ejector, mag and left side of the frame to receive a new ejector on which the leg reached further in to engage the follower. Picture of such in an earlier thread. This is an intermediate change that would be changed again at some point to the ribbed mag.

Prior to that, if my understanding is correct Walther sort of half way resolved the issue by adding grooves to each side of the follower so that it would sit higher in an empty magazine. With this change the rear of the follower was allowed to pop up in front of the bottom of the breech face where it would catch the retracted slide. The follower acted as a slide catch/hold open. Why did they do this???? Perhaps a temporary solution to hold the slide open, clearly show to the shooter that the pistol was empty. Allowed a shooter to insert an empty mag, lock the slide back for whatever reason. Safety inspection at the range....something.

But it was also not a satisfactory solution in that the magazine could not be removed and have the slide remained locked back as would be the case in later pistols. Walters ultimate solution...I'll call it model 4 was the ribbed mag and modified follower. #1, .32 type follower/mag that did not properly engage the ejector, #2, modified follower to catch the slide, #3 new style ejector with added notch in the left side of the frame and a longer leg to engage the follower, #4 the ribbed mag, slotted frame that is still in use.

So I though I might look a bit closer at this...obviously lacking real photos of early pistols.



This might be a photo of one of the cut out followers. From an ancient thread at another Forum the owner bought an early Z-M pistol and it came with two mags. The mag on the left would not lock in. I believe the pistol was a bottom mag release version. The mag on the right locked in. Dieter commented that there were different mags for different pistols but did not elaborate. So, I'm assuming that this is one of the mags that allowed the follower to rise higher where the rear of the follower physically blocked forward movement of the slide. #2 solution.

I got out a .32 and a .380. The .32 mag fits nicely into the .380 and locks in but will not properly engage the modern ejector. Obviously if it won't lift the ejector, the slide won't lock open. The .380 mag obviously won't fit into the .32. No rib slot in the frame. But each follower appears to be the same width with exception of the left facing nib in the .380 mags. Looking in my desk drawer I pulled out a couple of followers...a P22 one and one I don't know from what or where it came. Both fit a .380 mag nicely and topped out with the rear of the follower high enough above the rear of the mag and pistol frame so that they both would catch the slide with the rear of the follower. Ha, #2 style. Sure enough, pull them out and the slide slams shut.



Couple of other followers. P22 on the bottom...the other...????



P22 sticking high above the mag/frame and in position to easily catch the forward moving slide.



The other follower showing similar results. These are similar to what the grooved follower above allowed the follower to do....pop up high enough to catch the slide. A half gap solution in my book. So what about a modern steel .32 follower, could it be made to do the same. Yes, but they are too thin for cutting a groove, the rear edge is rounded from forming but, the sides could be tapered in so that the follower would ride higher in the mag before being stopped. And the other problem is that the rounded rear corner of the follower is not conducive to catching the bottom of the breech face.



So, I spent five minutes tapering in the sides of a spare follower to allow it to rise higher. Then I had to take a file and cut a shelf into the rear of the follower, something the sharp, square bottom of the breech face would catch on. Assembled the mag, locked it in and yepper, it caught the slide every time. Same problem though of nothing to hold the slide locked back if the ejector is not engaged and the magazine is released.



In this photo you can see that the breech face has caught on the ledge at the rear of the follower and that the ejector is in the down position...not holding the slide rearward. I take it this is representative of the #2 Walther solution until they came out with #3 and eventually dropped it for #4, the current design.

All of this type of foolishness leads me to a better understanding of how things progressed. When I was modifying other makes of .22 mags to function in PP pistols it didn't take too long to learn the rules of what works, why and how to duplicate it. I also find the pistol so well designed that it is not really picky in feeding from these other adaptations...as long as they follow the rules. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,916 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
92024

What a flat top 7.65 follower fits like in a '60's 9mm/k pistol. Note that the ejector leg does not reach in from the side of the left frame. This follower will not engage the ejector causing it to function as a slide hold open.



92025


What a flat top 7.65 follower fits like in a 7.65mm PP pistol. Note raised rear ejector arm.


92026

Photo of the ribbed magazine and follower tab on a 9mm/k 60's PP pistol. Mag not fully inserted for photo purposes. 1917
 
1 - 2 of 2 Posts
Top