[vyper005]

What are your thoughts...I was thinking about adding some Meps on my new P99...

 

[Soybomb]

Meps on my p99, easy to find on the nightstand and allows the sights to visible in odd lighting conditions. Many times at night for example street light might illuminate the door way but leave me in darkness in a room. I probably will never need it, but like to know I can aim in that situation if I ever need to.

 

[sniper350]

What I am about to say might upset a few people…..so please remember it is just my opinion:

Night sights are - for any practical sense…………..are practically worthless. Hold on….read a little further for the explanation .

First, let’s describe what we mean by “night sights” . Usually they are tiny vials of tritium that are placed at useful locations inside the front and rear sight units. This tritium gives off a glow that can only be seen in very low light conditions. The older the tritium vials are, the fainter this glow will become. Different colors have varying “life spans” – with green being the color with the longest useful life.

Now back to real life situations : All of us [ being well trained & practiced ] would never fire upon an intruder or attacker without first clearly identifying the threat. At nighttime, this means carrying a flashlight of some sort, so we can illuminate the target and identify that threat. The best situation IMHO is to have some sort of weapon mounted light source, so we can keep both hands free while investigating the suspicious noise or incident.

We try to arm ourselves with very bright flashlights, so as to use the device to not only identify the threat quickly………but also to try and destroy the night vision of the intruder or to simply blind them temporarily. To this end ……… we also reduce our own night vision while looking at a “well lit” target in a darkened room.

You can now see where I am going……….. those tiny vials of tritium will no longer have the output to over come the use of your very bright flashlight in “most cases”.
Now it is possible to use the night sights to get a pre-alignment on the target area, before you light it up……….. but proper point shooting techniques will naturally fix this alignment for you.

It’s hard to imagine a scenario where you would be firing into the darkness ……. Needing the night sights to properly align your sights…….. and not first clearly identifying the type of threat confronting you. But I am speaking from a State that doesn't allow killing someone "just because you find them in your home". The threat of great bodily harm or death must be clearly articulated and known before you pull the trigger. Owning night sights [ I think ] is a feel good purchase or falls into the category of “better to have, than to need” even though the chances of ever making use of them is very low.

Prove it to yourself with this simple test : Go into a darkened room where your night sights become visible to your eyes. Point at a wall and line up your sights. Now turn on that bright “Surefire” you grab in Nighttime situations and light up a small section of that wall ………. Viola…….. your tritium night sights [ Glow ] will disappear .

Sorry for the long post ……..other opinions are certainly welcomed !! Yes, I do own two pistols equipped with Tritium …… you just never KNOW - Smile - !!!!!

JF.

 

[vyper005]

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 07 2006,6:36)]What I am about to say might upset a few people…..so please remember it is just my opinion:

Night sights  are - for any practical sense…………..are practically worthless. Hold on….read a little further for the explanation .

Now back to real life situations : All of us [ being well trained & practiced ] would never fire upon an intruder or attacker without first clearly identifying the threat. At nighttime, this means carrying a flashlight of some sort, so we can illuminate the target and identify that threat. The best situation IMHO is to have some sort of weapon mounted light source, so we can keep both hands free while investigating the suspicious noise or incident.

You can  now see where I am going……….. those tiny vials of tritium will no longer have the output to over come the use of your very bright flashlight in “most cases”.
Now it is possible to use the night sights to get a pre-alignment on the target area, before you light it up……….. but proper point shooting techniques will naturally fix this alignment for you.

It’s hard to imagine a scenario where you would be firing into the darkness ……. Needing the night sights to properly align your sights…….. and not first clearly identifying the type of threat confronting you. But I am speaking from a State that doesn't allow killing someone "just because you find them in your home". The threat of great bodily harm or death must be clearly articulated and known before you pull the trigger. Owning night sights [ I think ] is a feel good purchase or falls into the category of “better to have, than to need” even though the chances of ever making use of them is very low.

Prove it to yourself with this simple test : Go into a darkened room where your night sights become visible to your eyes. Point at a wall and line up your sights. Now turn on that bright “Surefire” you grab in Nighttime situations and light up a small section of that wall ………. Viola…….. your tritium night sights [ Glow ] will disappear .

True its always best to have a decent hand flashlight or weapon mounted light but I've always heard that night sights are best used when you are in a very dark room and your threat is illuminated in a hallway or such and you need to know where the front of your pistol is...

 

[ShipWreck]

Well, I do not have any - but I can see in law enforcement, where U should have it - if you are outside, some areas are lit differently than in others - your target may be in a spot that you can see him enough, but you may be in a shadow or something. So, I personally do not think they are worthless.

But, do I have any - no, not at the monet. I am satisfied w/ the stock sights.

 

[BreakerDave]

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 07 2006,6:36)]What I am about to say might upset a few people…..so please remember it is just my opinion:

Night sights are - for any practical sense…………..are practically worthless. Hold on….read a little further for the explanation .

[SNIP]

Now back to real life situations : All of us [ being well trained & practiced ] would never fire upon an intruder or attacker without first clearly identifying the threat. At nighttime, this means carrying a flashlight of some sort, so we can illuminate the target and identify that threat. The best situation IMHO is to have some sort of weapon mounted light source, so we can keep both hands free while investigating the suspicious noise or incident.

It is opinion, but I have to disagree here... While I agree that you would want to identify the threat before firing, the scenario proposed has you violate a rule of gun safety: Never point your gun at something you do not intend to destroy.

With a flashlight mounted to the gun, you are using the gun as a flashlight. While that may be fine if you are storming a place that you know contains only bad guys, it is not fine when you live with other people or may have a late night visitor (i.e. girlfriend swings by because she's upset). I would not want my muzzle aimed at a friend or family member while I'm seeing who they are. Also by using flashlights in the dark, you give away your position to an intruder. If you have a flashlight mounted on your gun and you are holding it in a defensive position, you have lit up your own Center of Mass. While there is some truth to destroying the other person's night vision, the intruder can point and shoot in the direction of the light source. That's you.

If someone has broken into my home, I'm on defense. I have the advantage because I know the layout of my home and unless the intruder has been there before, he (or she) does not. In a lowlight situation, the intruder does not know where I am. Additionally, I have taken measures to make sure that the intruder is backlight if he (or she) wants to push things and walk down that hallway. Also, I now live in an urban area so the home is never completely dark due to external light sources (street lights). This means I have a lowlight situation where I can identify the person (friend or foe) without a flashlight. (I can also call out to the threat and that would encourage a friend to identify himself or herself.) Night sights are designed for lowlight situations not pitch black situations. While the night sights can be seen in either situation, when it is pitch black you cannot find your target let alone identify your target. Being able to line up your sights in a pitch black situation is close to useless. It is the pitch black situation where you need a flashlight. However, in a lowlight situation where you can make out and identify the silhouette, night sights allow you to line up your sights and take a well aimed shot.

This does not mean night sights are an absolute necessity. It just demonstrates that they are not worthless. It also illustrates that if you are interested in home defense or self defense that you should look beyond what you can hang on your firearm. Those little indigo electric socket lights do a great job at creating a lowlight environment. When at home, you should be looking at ways of giving yourself the home field advantage. Lastly, you can work on shooting point shoulder drills to get away from depending on your sights too much.

 

[sniper350]

Some very valid points have been made in this thread………and allows for the reader to decide.

I will comment further though on the advantages of having a semi-auto with a flashlight attached to an accessory rail.

I can think of a hundred different reasons why I would need my weak hand free during a home search or while confronting a possible intruder. Reason number ONE and the most important – having two hands on your weapon during firing, is extremely important in maintaining accuracy, especially in a HIGH stress situation. It is hard enough to hit something in the dark, under high stress without making it more difficult trying to do it “One –handed”. Now add to the mix your wife trying to defend the family in the same manner…….and you will find “limp wristing” the weapon can become a problem causing FTF and a jammed gun. Nothing against the ladies ….many are better shooters than their male counter parts…..but their smaller hands & wrists lead to problems shooting weapons that require a firm grip to allow for smooth functioning. I see it on the range all the time. I am a firm believer that if a gun is present in the house……..the female [ if present ] should take training to know how to operate it the same as the Male.

Try opening doors and alike, holding your P-99 and holding onto a flashlight …… you will wish you had a third hand………….and that’s where the accessory rail comes in handy.

[Pointing your light equipped weapon at someone to establish threat level or identity.] First I have to say the rules of engagement change slightly when picking up a weapon to defend your life, as opposed to using your gun at the range for plinking. Grabbing for your gun should not be the first mental choice you make when investigating a suspicious condition around your home. I would hope that when you have decided to involve a firearm, some other facts have come into play that warrant the possible use of deadly force. So the actual pointing of a weapon at someone should be a justifiable action – in my world. Now comes into play your training – NO finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. Your trigger finger should be lying along side the slide until you have identified the threat. So your neighbor, or whoever that has entered your home uninvited should not be in terrible danger being lit up by your gun light.

You light [ gun mounted ] making you a target : Again training is extremely important in these type situations. Your light should always have a momentary switch where the shooter can control the ON & OFF times of his light. My P-99 has the momentary switch slid under the Hogue rubber slip on grip. So I can flash the light on for one second, just by squeezing the grip in a certain location. Having a bright light flashed into your eyes, on and off, -- in a dark room can be very disorienting . The Homeowner will always be moving, so his location is “never” stationary. Tactical teams have been using this method for years and works very well under hostile situations. Two shooters can seem like 6 to the bad guy, if the method described above is employed properly. Don’t have a grip switch ?? Many if not all rail mounted lights have momentary switches mounted near the trigger guard, so weak hand fingers can operate them. Again it all boils down to training and how much a home owner wants to prepare to protect his or her family.


<However, in a lowlight situation where you can make out and identify the silhouette, night sights allow you to line up your sights and take a well aimed shot. >



Maybe it’s just me ……… but I would require more than a “silhouette” before I pull the trigger and put someone 10-7. Again just me, but I have never been in a situation where I can see and acquire enough information [ because of illumination ] about the intended target and still have the night sights visible. YMMV. Great discussion all !

JF.

 

[Jake Starr]

Quote[/b] ]What are your thoughts...I was thinking about adding some Meps on my new P99...

To answer your original question, Yes I have a set of Meps on one of my 99's and yes I like them.

First, I am going to take this discussion on a bit of a tagent While the factory sights are very good, I like metal sights...this is the one area of the pistol that is more prone to getting banged or snagged simply because they protrude from the weapon. For me I like the idea of having metals sights...maybe I am funny that way but what can I say...

Secondly, I like the night sights because they do help me when I shoot indoors during competition...even though it is well lit there have been times and places where the night sights help and even though I now have fiber optics, I still like the night sights on my compact.

Thirdly, I tend to dry fire my weapon a lot while in the basement watching TV. My wife is upstairs and I have on the tube with just some soft ambient light in the background. I have a target in the other room sitting on my reloading bench and every so often I will engage the target in the dark room...having the night sights does help here...it maybe more of an expensive toy but I do find dry fire to be a valuable exercise so I like the sights for this situation.

And finally, I just like the profile that they add to the pistol.

 

[ZBoater]

I have a set of Meps on my P99C, which today became my bedside companion replacing my H&K USPc.  I also have the X2 flashlight/laser combo mounted on my P99C for reasons stated above.  Here's a pic from the DSC Arms page:

These can be found cheap on eBay.

 

[onebigcubano]

An ex-SWAT member/trainer in my idpa club claims to have tried several night sight systems and found them useless for many of the reasons that JF has stated.  He emphasized point shooting and I'll agree.  During matches I generally don't focus on my sights for any targets within 7 yards.  I still find having the night sights beneficial as I have 'walked' my house at night and not being able to see my gun is a weird feeling even though I know it is there!

The poll taken in our club showed just over 60% of our members had night sights on their carry guns.  I believe that few civilians use weapon-mounted lights by experience and also by looking at how few holsters are available to accomodate them.

I'll be giving the truglo tritium-fiber optic sights a try and have yet to decide on a weapon-light.  Sorry guys, I have been using a G17 for carry lately.  So to answer the thread question...go and buy the Meps if you have the money.  

 

[ShipWreck]

Well, I only have a weapon light on my nightstand gun - I see no other time I would carry a gun and a light on the gun. Too much to deal w/, and I doubt I would have time to attach the light to the gun if I really needed it in a self defense situation. Bedtime, home defense is really the only time I think I would ever need such a light.

 

[BreakerDave]

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,11:10)]The Homeowner will always be moving, so his location is “never” stationary. Tactical teams have been using this method for years and works very well under hostile situations. Two shooters can seem like 6 to the bad guy, if the method described above is employed properly.

It's interesting to hear the other side, but going out and looking for a threat that you think may require deadly force is not something I'd recommend. You lose the advantage when you start bumbling around in the dark looking for an adversary. If you have a squad to back you up or you're a character in an action adventure show, then by all means, but if you're a regular person you have to accept that it's much easier to defend a position against an assault than to go on the offense to meet an armed adversary in the dark at some unspecified place. The fact that a tactical team has had success with X,Y, or Z overlooks the fact that the tactical team has a different mandate.

L.E. has an affirmative duty to go into harm's way to protect people and apprehend suspects. They use tactics that serve that mandate. Where L.E. might have to do a sweep and clear, the regular person usually does not. That's not to say there could never be a situation where you'd have to leave a defensible position and take the initiative, but discussion of those hypothetical situations quickly lead to the realm of the mall ninja and his Red Dawn of the Dead scenarios.

I did not say nor did I mean to imply that flashlights and flashlight mounts are useless. It's that they have their downsides as well. Further some people may prefer the flexibility of having a flashlight in the weak hand. You can hold a flashlight in the weak hand and still support the gun. You can press the two hands against each other (back of the hand to the opposing back of the hand). Using this method, you can keep the barrel of your gun down (in a safe direction) while you are searching or trying to identify a person. With a quick motion, you can bring the muzzle on target if need be. That said, my original point was when you are on your home turf, you can stage the setting to work for you (i.e. make use of night lights and have a cell phone by your bed in addition to the firearm). You don't have to have tunnel vision and only focus on what you can stick on the gun.

The problem I have with lights in a tactical encounter is that I accept it as a given that as soon as a person turns on a light, however briefly, that person has given away his position. As soon as the light is turned on an intruder has an idea of what your general position is. That's bad. If you can disorient him with the light, great; but I think that's taking an unnecessary risk for a bad trade-off. The basic idea is to minimize your exposure to potential harm where possible. If he can't see you, there's a good chance you're going to come out of this on top. -Depending on your intruder's skill level, anxiety, and preparedness you might end up with an intruder flinching when the light is turned on and shooting a shotgun in your general direction. Again, that's a bad thing.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,11:10)]Maybe it’s just me ……… but I would require more than a “silhouette” before I pull the trigger and put someone 10-7. Again just me, but I have never been in a situation where I can see and acquire enough information [ because of illumination ] about the intended target and still have the night sights visible. YMMV

Although you quoted my position in your post, I think you missed the qualification of being able to identify the target prior to shooting. I said, "...in a lowlight situation where you can make out and identify the silhouette, night sights allow you to line up your sights and take a well aimed shot." That means you have to identify the silhouette (who is it?) not merely locate the silhouette (where is it?).

As far as the thing about illumination and night sights, I don't understand what you're saying. I'm sure you know that night sights can be seen day or night. In daylight, they function as regular three dot sights. In low light conditions, they appear as glow in the dark three dot sights. If you can identify the person, you should have no trouble finding the sights. If you can't identify the person, maybe you shouldn't be pointing a gun at him or her.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,11:10)][Pointing your light equipped weapon at someone to establish threat level or identity.] First I have to say the rules of engagement change slightly when picking up a weapon to defend your life, as opposed to using your gun at the range for plinking.

You always have to be conscious of where you are pointing your muzzle. Pointing a gun as a flashlight because you are trying to decide friend or foe is a recipe for disaster for most people, even trained people. Police have a lot of Negligent Discharges. Just imagine having a ND into a loved one. "Sorry, Honey." -You train a certain way to reduce the potential for certain outcomes. The reason you mind your muzzle's direction on the range is so you learn to mind your muzzle when it matters. As they say, friendly fire isn't very friendly.

Of course, there are a lot of qualifiers and situations vary meaning that the appropriate responses may vary. Training is a necessity if you are going to rely on your ability with a firearm to help yourself in an "armed interpersonal conflict" but beyond that, you need to think about your overall objectives and how you can stack the deck in your favor. The gun and how it is equipped is only part of the equation. Also there are trade-offs and you have to choose what downside you are willing to accept. The biases we have normally stems from our life experiences and training. Someone who is using something from Delta Force or the SEALs or SWAT or whatever "elite team" is using doctrine from a force that is conceived to be on the offensive. In their situations, it generally works. It works for a lot of reasons (extensive training, teamwork, surprise, etc.) but generally a homeowner and his or her significant other are nowhere near that level of competence so assuming it will work for them or they will be facing analogus situations is not a good bet. Night sights definitely have their uses. Although they do not replace a flashlight, a flashlight doesn't replace a good set of night sights either. YMMV

 

[sniper350]

Brakerdave -It's been a little hard for me to follow your last post...let me explain

You seem to advocate NOT investigating any suspicious conditions, but to huddle down in a defensive posture somewhere in the house [ since the homeowner might not be a former Navy Seal ]. This is great advice if you are SURE an intrusion has occurred. By all means- Let the professionals handle the intruders. If I have read your post wrong, I apologize. But I guess you would call the Police for "every" or most "bumps" in the night ?? Nothing wrong with that-- police response in my area could take awhile & I would be against having the family hide in a closet until they were clear to handle my complaint " of a loud noise" -- Can't tell you how many times I have heard a loud noise somewhere in the house late at night and grabbed a gun to investigate. You really don't expect to find anything wrong --but you must be prepared for anything. Usually one of the animals knocking something over!

If the above is true [defense most, if not all of the time ]........I am wondering just how much you might need "night sights" on your pistol. As you pointed out, in a defensive posture you can better control the environment.

My final post to this thread will address your following comment, so you will have the last word.<smile>

<Police have a lot of Negligent Discharges. >

This statement sir is just not true......... and I am at a loss to understand where you would get that impression. 20 years on my department of over 2,000 patrol officers I can only report ONE accidential Discharge........and should the discharge would been proven negligent....the officer would have been fired. Incidents of this nature travel like wildfire through a police dept ----- when a shooting occurs --- the F.O.P. attorneys are called to the scene immeadiately, so within a few hours everyone in the dept. has heard who "pulled the trigger" and "why" . I realize some dept.s have worse records than the one I just quoted....... but to say the incident rate rises to the level of "a lot" for negligent discharges is factually not true.

Finally.......... I have practiced barracaded scenarios for over ten years with many area SWAT teams and I can give you this one piece of advice....... If someone has their weapon's muzzle pointed at the ground or "in a safe" direction until they can identify me {friend or foe }........ they LOSE .......... and that means there is NO slot for second place, only a hole !!

Stay safe - whatever your methods or equipment !!

PS. And yes Jake, if you practice in the "dark" Night Sights are very helpful. LOL.

JF.

 

[BreakerDave]

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,9:37)]You seem to advocate NOT investigating any suspicious conditions, but to huddle down in a defensive posture somewhere in the house [ since the homeowner might not be a former Navy Seal ]. This is great advice if you are SURE an intrusion has occurred. By all means- Let the professionals handle the intruders. If I have read your post wrong, I apologize. But I guess you would call the Police for "every" or most "bumps" in the night ??

I'm talking about hunkering down when you are sure you have an intruder... And it's not just because the person is not a former SEAL, it's because regardless of your training or background it's better to use cover and concealment when it's available. Obviously for bumps or loud bangs in the night, you should use sound judgment. I have never advocated calling the police every time there is a noise. Choosing to investigate in order to determine whether you may need assisstance or to use force is fine. Cavalierly walking around using your pistol as a flashlight is just plain stupid. Flashlights are merely another tool in box and while they are good for certain applications, they are not the all around substitute for night sights. In your post, you were discussing room to room searches and if it has gotten to that level you are basically saying you are fairly sure you have someone in the house.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,9:37)] If the above is true [defense most, if not all of the time ]........I am wondering just how much you might need "night sights" on your pistol. As you pointed out, in a defensive posture you can better control the environment.

In a lowlight setting (at home or elsewhere), night sights are a help. What you seem to miss is that many people will use the same home defense gun as a carry gun. If you are carrying, you will go to places where you have no control over the conditions of the environment. Again, they can be useful in lowlight situations when you're not at home. I'm not saying they are an absolute must for everyone, but you're not going to lose a gunfight because they're there. On the other hand, you can lose a gunfight because you turned on a flashlight.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,9:37)] My final post to this thread will address your following comment, so you will have the last word.<smile>

Hey, You knew taking a hardline against night sights would elicit a response from at least one person... Thanks for the last word.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,9:37)]

<Police have a lot of Negligent Discharges. >

This statement sir is just not true......... and I am at a loss to understand where you would get that impression.

I have had many and continuous contacts with law enforcement agencies across the country dating back to the 80's. I have contacts in Federal, State, and local agencies. I have received a lot of the same training and I have talked with instructors for those agencies. You are right that when they occur, if anyone is around to know about it, the story does spread like wildfire. I hear these stories a lot from the people who I know. While I could rattle off story after story, that's not the point. The fact is all people, even trained people, can mishandle guns. A friend of mine who was a shooting instructor once said: "There are two kinds of shooters, those who have had ND's and those who will have them. -May all of your ND's be downrange." He has been there and done that. He was a combat veteran and a police instructor. I now have years of experience (some of it unpleasant) and I have seen nothing that contradicts his statement.

People are prone to make mistakes and when handling a firearm that means Negligent Discharges. They happen and when cops are responsible, they generally are not fired unless an innocent has been hurt. It's too expensive to fire someone with training and experience. You can talk about lawyers and departmental policy but the functional reality is a cop who accidentally shoots himself with his own gun gets worker's comp and a firearms refresher course. A case just like that happened in Baltimore. The guy shot his offhand while holstering the gun because he was holding his holster. The problem was his finger was in the trigger guard and on the trigger. Oops.

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ July 08 2006,9:37)]Finally.......... I have practiced barracaded scenarios for over ten years with many area SWAT teams and I can give you this one piece of advice....... If someone has their weapon's muzzle pointed at the ground or "in a safe" direction until they can identify me {friend or foe }........ they LOSE .......... and that means there is NO slot for second place, only a hole !!

This needed some comic relief... As you are undoubtedly aware, someone may have spotted you before you have located them, in which case your wife or loved one can get a nicely folded flag. Posturing with this macho, bravado stuff may sound great but it ignores reality. You have to be careful where your muzzle is pointing. When you choose not to be, you have a really good chance of having things go wrong. That's whether you are SWAT or not. That's not to say you can't be aggressive in your gun handling, but it's knowing your situation, when it's called for, and what your skill level is. -SWAT gets dropped off to secure and possibly storm a place where they believe a bad guy is. They have a team to back them up. They have a well rehearsed procedure. Your average gunowner does not. Although he can set the scene, he cannot control the scene the way the police can. That difference is huge.

Visit a public range and look at the average skill level. Advising these people (some of whom are members here) to be aggressive in their gunhandling seems irresponsible to me. It creates a mindset that can produce a mess. About a couple of years ago, I saw a story about a guy in Vegas who heard a bump in the night. He went outside with his gun in hand to stop several thieves from stealing the rims from his SUV. They were armed and he traded fire with them. He managed to shoot his own SUV five or six times and send bullets into his neighbors' living rooms. He totally missed the thieves. Although he wasn't hit, he was just lucky that he survived the encounter and didn't hit any innocents.

I appreciate that you want to be the resident tactical guy, but you have to know your audience. Advising things and tactics that take a good deal of practice to get right to people who would be lucky to go Thunder Ranch once or twice in their lives seems irresponsible to me. Given that we're dealing with firearms and situations where life and death could hang in the balance, the smart thing is to focus on the basics.

As always, YMMV...

 

[sniper350]

Well you had the last word until you resorted to personal attacks on my character


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Advising things and tactics that take a good deal of practice to get right to people who would be lucky to go Thunder Ranch once or twice in their lives seems irresponsible to me.
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I have given no such irresponsible advice......you should learn to read more carefully. I have only stated what I would do in my own house confronted with a suspicious noise & gave the reasons, that was made pretty clear . I even said it was fine for you to call the Police at any time [ or every time] you didn't feel up to the challenge of investigating a suspicious condition or noise in your home. That was also very clear.


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Cavalierly walking around using your pistol as a flashlight is just plain stupid.
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Who susgested that

??  If you are going to SEARCH ........you had better be damn well prepared if the SHTF happens !!  That means searching or investigating as if "serious and real danger" could be right around the corner. Nothing Cavalier about that.......... Get a grip !



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"There are two kinds of shooters, those who have had ND's and those who will have them.
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Now that is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read !!
And I don't care who said it or what kind of training he has had. I have handled firearms for over 37 years ........ in gun battles and out just plinking.....and I have never had an ND as you call them. People who think like that are just plain defeatists....... and apperantly believe "all people are imperfect, you just have to wait long enough and you will eventually prove it". I would never train nor shoot with anyone who tells me he will eventually ,through his/her stupidity, fire a weapon through NEGLIGENCE......... that IS  what the N stands for doesn't it ?



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I appreciate that you want to be the resident tactical guy, but you have to know your audience
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I have no such desires.....nor have I made any claims or given any tactical advice in my postings. Even with 75 Barracaded or Hostage situations under my belt, I wouldn't dare to begin to tell you how to even tie your shoes for a gunfight, like you said I don't know my audience - nor could I ......... As an example -- someone "could" be the biggest dirtball around --- how would that look ? me telling them how to win!? I have answered some questions about equipment, cleaning supplies,........and gave some brief suggestions on "point shooting" techniques.
I have tried to help members with simple problems.......

I have done so without calling anyone irresponsible or stupid......... and looking back through my posts that even included you.



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This needed some comic relief...  As you are undoubtedly aware, someone may have spotted you before you have located them, in which case your wife or loved one can get a nicely folded flag.  
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Nope nothing funny about it.......Another case of you not reading carefully! I said "barracaded situation"....where I will always have a slight advantage, because you have to approach me. So let me state it again........you go ahead and practice pointing your muzzle at the ground [safe direction], going room to room, and you will lose 100% of the time if the intruder has any skills. I don't find that funny. In a Police action, the bad guy always loses in the end, because as you correctly said there is back up for the first guy through the door. But now back to a house where an intruder has entered and now waits for the homeowner to investigate a small noise [ like you said " Choosing to investigate in order to determine whether you may need assisstance or to use force is fine. ".]........get the picture ! Like you said no back for the homeowner.........do you still want to investigate noises with your weapon pointed at the ground ??

I am done........and so would you be with your weapon pointed safely at the ground ! And no I don't find that funny either.

JF.