Disappointing Debut

429 Views 21 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Jimmo952, 12 h ago

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · 4 d ago

I got the first range time with my new, PPK/S .380, this afternoon, firing 100 rounds of factory CCI Blazer Brass, a 95gr FMJ. Easily 25% of the rounds suffered light hammer strikes, particularly in double action mode. Some rounds only discharged on the fourth, or fifth consecutive DA hammer strike. Bad news. When the rounds did fire, they ejected and fed from the magazines flawlessly. That was the good news. I'd purchased two new Walther mags to go along with the two that came with the pistol. All functioned 100%.
I called Walther customer service, when I got home. To my surprise, the rep advised me that the PPK/S pistols struggle with "heavier" ammo, such as the 95gr FMJ. He recommended that I try bullet loads lighter than 88 grain, being particularly fond of Hornady hollow points. I reminded him that this was an expensive Walther model that should easily handle 90--95 grain ball ammo. I cannot afford to practice with a pistol that only functions with $1.25 per round specialty loads.
The rep provided me with a return label and my newbie is on its way back to Arkansas. I got the distinct impression that the rep wanted me to try different ammunition, as with many rimfires, since "heavy" bullets were known to be problematic in the PPK/S.
This doesn't make much sense to me for light primer strikes. Is the new PPK/S really this ammo sensitive?

Reactions: 3

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OmegaJB

· #2 · 4 d ago

I think the new guns have such tight tolerances that they need to wear in.
Unlike a polymer frame guns that have loose tolerances an all metal firearm needs extra time to wear in where it's reliable.

I have an a PPKS from 2012 and I could barely get a mag out without something going wrong.

After a good amount of Remington white box 380, I can't tell you the last time it had a single malfunction.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

Reactions: 2

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #3 · 4 d ago

That's encouraging news.
I owned two PPK/S pistols, years ago. Both were Interarms imports. They fed ball ammo like crazy but hollow points needed to be evaluated, brand by brand. Even a cheapie, $200 semiauto should be able to handle FMJ ammo, in my opinion. I've got my fingers crossed. If the hammer is somehow dragging internally, it could account for the light primer strikes.
I have no previous experience with Walther customer service. I hope to get back on the range soon.

Reactions: 1

Wildtoad

· #4 · 4 d ago

Walther service is usually quite good and quick. I’m surprised by the comment on the ammo. I can say my S&W PPK can be picky as it comes to lower end ammo, but does quite well with top shelf ammo which include Blazer Brass.

Reactions: 2

rustyaa55

· #5 · 4 d ago

CS response is highly suspect, to say the least.
As previous posters said MAYBE it just needs break-in to loosen up.

Have talked to some CS Reps that seemed totally non-technical. Just a nice, curteous voice to field the calls. Sounds like CS Rep was scanning memory or prompt notes for ANYTHING to finish the call without a return.
But don't understand why not say, shoot a couple more boxes and call us in the morning.

Don't see what bullet weight possibly has to do with light strikes.

Sorry for the trouble. PLEASE keep us informed.

Reactions: 3

Depenau

· #6 · 4 d ago

There have been some posts here that suggest the Fort Smith firing pin spring might be the reason for light strikes. The Fort Smith recoil spring uniquely (for the PP series) is conical with a small end and larger end. This shape causes the firing pin to look "bunched up" in the firing pin channel. While I never had light strikes (or any other problem) with the Fort Smith PPK I used to own, I wondered why the Fort Smith pistols had this type of firing pin spring.

Reactions: 3

Angry Hippo

· #7 · 4 d ago

Trying a different brand of ammo seems like a reasonable solution.

I'd rather shoot another $25 bucks worth of ammo than give up and send my gun in - and if I still had to send it in at least I could say I'd tried multiple types of ammo.

Reactions: 2

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #8 · 4 d ago

The pistol was literally, new-out-of-the-box. After initial cleaning and lubing, I would expect my $800+ PPK/S to perform with factory CCI FMJ ammo. The rep's suggestion that I try lightweight hollow points was silly. I did have some Magtech and Remington .380 hardball available, but after dozens of failures in the first 100 CCI rounds, I was satisfied that the pistol needs service. I'm not a gunsmith. I would expect Walther to make things right.

Reactions: 2

Angry Hippo

· #9 · 4 d ago

Sammy23 said:
The pistol was literally, new-out-of-the-box. After initial cleaning and lubing, I would expect my $800+ PPK/S to perform with factory CCI FMJ ammo. The rep's suggestion that I try lightweight hollow points was silly. I did have some Magtech and Remington .380 hardball available, but after dozens of failures in the first 100 CCI rounds, I was satisfied that the pistol needs service. I'm not a gunsmith. I would expect Walther to make things right.

The gun is based on a nearly 100 year old design. The $800 price tag isn't because they made it extra reliable - it's because they didn't use plastic materials in it's manufacture.

The rep's suggestion you try another brand of ammo was eminently reasonable. Sending a gun in without even trying a different box of ammo seems like the unreasonable part of this story.

Did you look at the brass and confirm the strikes were actually light and not just hard primers? How do you know you didn't get a batch of ammo that was out of spec? Blazer Brass is decent but it ain't always perfect!

Of course your gun might just need some adjustments and TLC by a gunsmith. I don't know because you didn't post any pictures and I wasn't there.

Still... "try different ammo" is like step number one in troubleshooting any gun - and you skipped right over it. 🤷‍♂️

Reactions: 4

SgtV

· #10 · 4 d ago

5

The gun should run with properly loaded ammo up to 120gr bullets.

A young clerk at Smith said the warranty would be void if I shot the ammo that the 460 was designed for again, as shown in pic.
A senior Gal later corrected his mistake as did a fun conversation with Hornady.
Two rounds in the new 3.5" and the trigger and cylinder stop had to be replaced.

Penn PC leads at 100gr, 120gr and
a 115gr XTP.

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Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #11 · 4 d ago

Angry Hippo said:
The gun is based on a nearly 100 year old design. The $800 price tag isn't because they made it extra reliable - it's because they didn't use plastic materials in it's manufacture.

The rep's suggestion you try another brand of ammo was eminently reasonable. Sending a gun in without even trying a different box of ammo seems like the unreasonable part of this story.

Did you look at the brass and confirm the strikes were actually light and not just hard primers? How do you know you didn't get a batch of ammo that was out of spec? Blazer Brass is decent but it ain't always perfect!

Of course your gun might just need some adjustments and TLC by a gunsmith. I don't know because you didn't post any pictures and I wasn't there.

Still... "try different ammo" is like step number one in troubleshooting any gun - and you skipped right over it. 🤷‍♂️

I

Angry Hippo said:
The gun is based on a nearly 100 year old design. The $800 price tag isn't because they made it extra reliable - it's because they didn't use plastic materials in it's manufacture.

The rep's suggestion you try another brand of ammo was eminently reasonable. Sending a gun in without even trying a different box of ammo seems like the unreasonable part of this story.

Did you look at the brass and confirm the strikes were actually light and not just hard primers? How do you know you didn't get a batch of ammo that was out of spec? Blazer Brass is decent but it ain't always perfect!

Of course your gun might just need some adjustments and TLC by a gunsmith. I don't know because you didn't post any pictures and I wasn't there.

Still... "try different ammo" is like step number one in troubleshooting any gun - and you skipped right over it. 🤷‍♂️

I want a PPK/S that fires CCI Blazer Brass.If it can't handle this quality ammo, I wouldn't trust it for self defense.
I did scrutinize the many failed rounds. The primers were barely dimpled. Walther needs to make this pistol work with my choice of factory ammo. Simple enough?

Angry Hippo

· #12 · 3 d ago

Sammy23 said:
Walther needs to make this pistol work with my choice of factory ammo. Simple enough?

That actually sounds like a pretty big ask. No manufacturer I know of guarantees that their guns will function with every brand of ammo under the sun. I also do not know of any ammo manufacturer that has never put out a bad batch of ammo.

Good news is I have no doubt that Walther will do what it takes to make your pistol right if there is a problem with it. They're so confident their guns rock they'll give you your money back if you don't like it.

I also have no doubt that refusing to try the most likely solution to your problem is uh... "inexplicable" is maybe the nicest way I can put it.

I feel like this question deserves answering but you're free to keep stomping your feet and insisting that your gun should work perfectly when it's not even really broken in yet and you refused the most basic troubleshooting steps. I wish you the best of luck.

How do you know you didn't get a batch of ammo that was out of spec?

Jimmo952

· #13 · 3 d ago

Sammy23 said:
I

I want a PPK/S that fires CCI Blazer Brass.If it can't handle this quality ammo, I wouldn't trust it for self defense.
I did scrutinize the many failed rounds. The primers were barely dimpled. Walther needs to make this pistol work with my choice of factory ammo. Simple enough?

Have you given some thought to what round you want to use for carry/self-defense?

I sincerely hope Walther gets the pistol to where you are happy with it. I think they probably will.

It doesn't necessarily follow though that if a pistol works well with Round A, it will also work with Round B.

This is true of all guns but doubly-so with an older design like the PPK/S.

Many longtime users of the PP-series of guns are not unaccustomed to trying different loads in their guns to see what works best.

Reactions: 2

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #14 · 3 d ago

Jimmo952 said:
Have you given some thought to what round you want to use for carry/self-defense?

I sincerely hope Walther gets the pistol to where you are happy with it. I think they probably will.

It doesn't necessarily follow though that if a pistol works well with Round A, it will also work with Round B.

This is true of all guns but doubly-so with an older design like the PPK/S.

Many longtime users of the PP-series of guns are not unaccustomed to trying different loads in their guns to see what works best.
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I've never been much impressed with the .380 for stopping power. I like the new Federal Hydrashok Deep ammo and carry it in my EDC Sig 9mms. It works! Still, if I can get the newcomer to fire on demand, there is much to be said for common brand hardball in the PPK/S. It penetrates and is usually reliable.
I'm a stubborn customer. When I spend my money on an item and it fails to perform as advertised, I'll let the provider know. I shouldn't need to tinker with and troubleshoot the product, particularly when it's under warranty.

halfmoonclip

· #15 · 2 d ago

Light primer strikes have less than nothing to do with bullet weight.
Yes, it might be worth trying another brand, and it might be worthwhile 'plonking' the ammo, to make sure it's seating without drama...a round that isn't quite chambered might cushion the firing pin strike.
But in this day and age, if the Walther platform has been successfully updated, then it should rarely be ammo sensitive.
Moon

Reactions: 1

rustyaa55

· #16 · 2 d ago

Break in IS reasonable with most any mechanical thing. High end cars included.
Many firearms costing much more are expected to have the break in period.

It is reasonable to run a few boxes of some other brand of hardball. It allows the parts to wear in, smoothing things out. Not uncommon at all for your initial problem to disappear entirely.

That is normal, so quite reasonable.

halfmoonclip

· #17 · 2 d ago

No harm in a little break in, emphasis on a little. If a manufacturer has done their job, the gun should run, right out the door.
Yeah, I drove the Bimmer gently the first 1k miles, but it still ran. I didn't have to push it.
Same is true of guns; they should work, with few glitches. It's been true in Glocks and SIGs of my acquaintance, and, frankly, PP series Walthers. Yes, the older PPs were ammo sensitive, especially hollow points. But if current production is being marketed as a viable defense gun in 2023, then it should be far less so.
Too many techs dodge warranty returns by saying the gun needs to be "broken in", often in numbers well up in the triple digits. Which is just hay that's been through the cow.
Plonk the ammo, check that the firing pin is moving freely, make sure the pistol is returning fully to battery after each shot....then, it's time to talk to Walther.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Moon

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #18 · 1 d ago

Walther has the pistol and advises 5--7 business days to examine/repair, as needed.
As stated, ejection and feeding were 100% when the rounds discharged. Some required four, or five DA or SA strikes to detonate. Primers examined on unfired rounds had very tiny pin impressions. This was consistent through two boxes of factory ammo. Unacceptable.
I understand that the PPK/S is an older design. So is the 1911 and Single Action Army. All proven and reliable.
I'll bet Walther fixes mine. I'll advise.

Think1st

· #19 · 1 d ago

Sammy23 said:
Walther has the pistol and advises 5--7 business days to examine/repair, as needed.
As stated, ejection and feeding were 100% when the rounds discharged. Some required four, or five DA or SA strikes to detonate. Primers examined on unfired rounds had very tiny pin impressions. This was consistent through two boxes of factory ammo. Unacceptable.
I understand that the PPK/S is an older design. So is the 1911 and Single Action Army. All proven and reliable.
I'll bet Walther fixes mine. I'll advise.

Light primer strikes definitely have nothing to do with bullet weight as @halfmoonclip said. There is either a problem with how far back the sear is being released in DA, or there is an issue with your firing pin/spring.

Our Ft. Smith PPK/S loves hot defensive rounds and functions best with them. They were actually the first things we ran through it when it was new, and it ran without fault. Only weak hardball ammo exhibited any cycling issues, which seemed to have had to do with the cycling being less than completely vigorous.

Reactions: 1

Sammy23

Discussion Starter · #20 · 13 h ago

Fortunately, my PPK/S cycled fine after discharging rounds. I didn't try any carry-quality ammo since I was frustrated that the pistol could not ignite the quality hardball I was using. Since 75% of my shooting will likely involve FMJ practice rounds, that was cause for concern.

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