[WEGrewe]

I too have recently acquired a PP and would like to know when it was born. I've been searching all over this forum and haven't found the answer. Couldn't Waltherforums put this kind of info on a separate tab called it Dating your Walther so people can easily get an answer? It seems so many people have the same questions about dating their pistols.

Mine is a 7.65mm Manhurhin PP with St Etienne stamped below the ejection port. The serial number is not included in the PP serial number list in the 15 Aug 1974 erhalter chart. My pistols serial number located on the right side on the front of the grip is 187889P. Would appreciate if anyone can date it for me.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Milspec]

Welcome to WaltherForums!

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/...ebsites-help-pp-ppk-owners-id-their-guns.html

Based on Serial#187889P your PP was made in 1940.

 

[UniversalExports]

From the title of the thread I thought we were in for a tale on hoplophilia.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[TJDN]

...Based on Serial#187889P your PP was made in 1940.

If it was made in 1940 how could it be a Manurhin? I thought that association began after the war.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Milspec]

If it was made in 1940 how could it be a Manurhin? I thought that association began after the war.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

If your serial number is 187889P it should not be a Manurhin. The "P" suffix was used from 1940 - 1945 (except for some post war reworks).

Please double check the serial number to be sure it has a "P" suffix. In any case could you please post photos of both sides of your PP and any other markings? That would help to clarify exactly what type of PP you have.

 

[Englishandy]

It could also be a parts gun with a 1940 German frame and a Manurhin slide ...

 

[olsoul]

This one does sound like a possible "Frankenstein".
This happens more often then folks would think. In fact there is a PPQ on GunBroker right now that has a PPQ FE threaded barrel, so it even happens to very newly produced weapons.

While it makes dating your weapon next to impossible it likely will not effect the accuracy or reliability of your PP. My suggestion would be to clean her, lube her(only a wee bit), feed her some FMJ and see how see behaves.

Oh...BTW....if we don't see images, she doesn't exist..., so why don't you take a few shots and give us a range report as well?

 

[WEGrewe]

Serial No 187889P

Thanks folks for the help so far. Some of you have asked for pictures. I've attached 5 (hopefully, as I am new to this) showing both sides. They are going to make you scratch your heads based on the confusion in this thread already. I thought first that someone had taken a slide from a Manurhin PP and put it on a newer frame because of the light frame color (might be aluminum), but the serical number is stamped on the frame and that's what you guys are basing your dating on. So take a look at the pics and tell me what you think the born on date is for this baby.

 

[WEGrewe]

Serial No 187889P with photos this time

 

[olsoul]

We will look forward to seeing your images when you get the attachments straightened out.

 

[Englishandy]

OK, from what I've been able to research, (and I'm no expert), the frame is from the Danish police contract. The 'Rplt' and stock number confirm that. However, most of these pistols were pre-war and WWII and would not have had a Manhurin marked slide. The post war pistols bought under this contract were from Walther (Ulm) and most did not have the 'Rplt' stamp.
All this from the Dieter Marschall book. It gives a serial number range of 182000P - 201000P, which would include your pistol, but there are no dates to go with the numbers. Also the Marschall book doesn't say if any of this contract had the Dural (alloy) frame. Have you tried putting a magnet on the frame to see if it's steel ?
So possibly a parts gun with a Danish contract frame and a later Manhurin slide.

 

[Milspec]

Yep...1940 Danish PP police frame upgraded with a postwar Manurhin replacement slide. It's not a parts gun...it's a police rework. I mentioned these in post #5. The Danish high pressure ammo and years of use wore out or cracked a lot of slides. Some have post war slides made without indicator pins to be stronger. This is noted on Pg. 34 of Dieter Marschall's book. Danish PP's continued in service well into the 1980's when they were sold as surplus. Nice two tone finish. I like it...

 

[olsoul]

Yep...1940 Danish PP police frame upgraded with a postwar Manurhin replacement slide. It's not a parts gun...it's a police rework. I mentioned these in post #5. The Danish high pressure ammo and years of use wore out or cracked a lot of slides. Some have post war slides made without indicator pins to be stronger. This is noted on Pg. 34 of Dieter Marschall's book. Danish PP's continued in service well into the 1980's when they were sold as surplus. Nice two tone finish. I like it...

So it is a Frankenstein by design? How interesting is that!
I must say I love the forum there are almost no puzzles or mysteries posted here which haven't been solved (with the exception of where to find in stock ammo).

 

[WEGrewe]

Hey thanks for all your help guys. It's been very helpful. Englishandy, I confirmed that the frame is magnetic. I read yesterday on the internet when I searched for Rplt Nr 4065 that these pistols were from the Danish national police force and that the frames were often matte chrome plated before placed into service although I've seen a number of Rplt Nr'ed pistols that aren't matte chromed. So I think they might have done that for the big wigs on the force. That certainly helps eliminate the question of how the frame could have a serial number indicating manufacture in the german plant. Milspec you make a good point that the slide from France plant at Manurhin was probably a replacement to the original due to failures of the original. Seems plausible. The frame I have does have the chambered round indicator. As I was inspecting this gun more closely I did find the eagle/N on the end of the barrel so it probably is original. Also I noticed a number hand engraved inside the slide on the side opposite the ejection port. The number whas hand engraved as with one of those electric vibrating engravers. The number is 67693. I found a page on the internet that says pistols in my serial number range were made with the P were definitely made in Germany in 1940. Everything I've found about the Manurhin slide says that it was made around 1950 or shortly thereafter. Interestingly I found a picture of a PP with Serial Number 187841P yesterday at http://gunboards.com/uploaded/k98man/200723102845 P2030004.jpg. It has the extension on the clip, has the lanyard ring, and is not matte chromed. Interestingly, it was only 48 pieces before mine was made. I also recall that I read that it was definitely made in 1940 and has a German slide. So summing up, it appears that my frame is 1940, the slide changed sometime 1950 or there abouts probably while it was in service with the Danish national police force. Anything to add? If not, I'm happy and thanks again guys. I've had a great time on this forum.

 

[Milspec]

I think you have it pretty much covered. It's a beautiful and collectable PP with an interesting history. Thanks for sharing it with us...