Of those of you with concealed carry permits that carry a DAO automatic (which typically has no external/manual safety: Do you carry with one in the chamber and rely upon the mile long trigger pull & (sometimes) default internal safeties, or do you just think that I'm nuts for doing so, and plan to rack the slide in the event of emminent use? Please keep you replies kind (lol)......
DAO: Carry w/ one in the chamber?
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When you're carrying a gun that has no conventional safeties, it is of paramount importance that the gun is carried in a proper holster to avoid an unintentional discharge. This is especially true with guns that have actions which emulate the action of a Glock (i.e. P99 QA).
Also little things, like half-tucked or untucked shirts, can get caught in trigger guards and stuck on triggers, so pay you need to attention to what you're doing and how you're doing it.
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I voted yes but I have a qualifier. If I carry on my person, I carry condition 1. But if I am carrying in my briefcase I carry it condition 3.
Sparx, I don't believe it is possible to draw any meaningful conclusions from this poll in the abstract, without reference to one's occupation, where one lives, one's life style (or daily routine), one's level of training, and probably other factors as well.
I have a permit, and often have a handgun with me. I don't carry ANY kind of handgun with the chamber loaded. But you could say that I have a jaundiced perspective. Over the years I have dealt professionally with many (more than 100) gun accidents, a fair number of them fatal. The vast majority involved guns that were loaded when there was no immediate necessity to have a cartridge chambered. In the absence of a clear and present danger, the hypothetical disadvantage of carrying a pistol that is less than "instantly ready" is eclipsed by the safety risk that is very real and continuously present when a cartridge is chambered. In an undisciplined civilian context, a firearm with ammunition in the magazine is plenty dangerous enough; once the chamber is loaded, the risk is multiplied exponentially.
Go to any big gun show and watch the parade of wannabes with no real safety training and only the haziest mechanical understanding of their firearm who imagine themselves coolly imitating a Galco holster ad. Those are ADs waiting to happen.
There is an endless list of ways --by human or mechanical failure-- that a gun may fire when its owner (who may or may not be holding it or even be present at that instant) did not intend or anticipate it. Even modern pistols with the most advanced safety features are not immune. Their sear surfaces and safety features--automatic firing pin blocks, rebounding hammers, etc.-- are internal and their correct function may not be easily verified. The protection they offer is dependent upon the precise movement of tiny components powered by tiny springs, and if one fractures or malfunctions from wear, abuse, lack of maintenance, or incorrect assembly, the pistol is vulnerable. So many accidents occur when guns are dropped, for example, that I concluded long ago that any time you drop any gun with a round in the chamber and it does NOT fire, consider yourself a cat who has used up one of his lives.
In the end the issue is reduced to a risk/benefit analysis. I'd have a different response if I were a police officer whose daily job was to face potentially deadly trouble, or the owner of a liquor store in the inner city. But I'm not, nor a soldier in a war zone. I lead a fairly uneventful life in a rural area. Yes, there is always a possibility of an unexpected criminal encounter, but that risk is comparatively remote. What is not remote is the constant and present danger of a loaded firearm that in a brief moment of inattention or carelessness can produce a tragedy. I'm not much good at fast draw anyway, so on balance I have opted to compromise combat readiness for an additional margin of practical safety. I am more comfortable that way, and the gun is more forgiving: No pistol ever accidently fired with the chamber empty. I figure that if I stay alert and pay proper attention to my surroundings (which I learned from my cop friends), I may see trouble coming early enough to rack the slide. And if I don't, at least my epitaph will NOT be, "The damned cowboy shot himself."
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MGMike, you make some good points.
Ten years ago when I got my Florida permit, I did not carry with one on the pipe. I actually carried a S&W Chief's Special .38 with an empty chamber under the hammer. It took a couple of years and a lot of trips to the gun range, owning and shooting different guns, talking with other people (gun guys, cops, military, etc.) and eventually worked up to d/a semi-auto with one in the pipe.
I've seen too many situations in Florida where a car jacking, ATM robbery, convenience store robbery, etc., has gone bad and if I am ever in that situation I want to know my gun is ready and doesn't need to be loaded. The speed at which these bad guys (meth, crack, etoh??) go from robbery to murder is a split-second. I'm not willing to die so some POS can get $60.00 for more drugs.
Ten years ago when I got my Florida permit, I did not carry with one on the pipe. I actually carried a S&W Chief's Special .38 with an empty chamber under the hammer. It took a couple of years and a lot of trips to the gun range, owning and shooting different guns, talking with other people (gun guys, cops, military, etc.) and eventually worked up to d/a semi-auto with one in the pipe.
I've seen too many situations in Florida where a car jacking, ATM robbery, convenience store robbery, etc., has gone bad and if I am ever in that situation I want to know my gun is ready and doesn't need to be loaded. The speed at which these bad guys (meth, crack, etoh??) go from robbery to murder is a split-second. I'm not willing to die so some POS can get $60.00 for more drugs.
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Yes. It needs to be ready to fire.
Concealed empty firearms
Mike, every man has to know his own limitations. If it makes you feel safer,
by all means carry your gun empty.
If someone ever comes at you with a knife, or some other weapon, I certainly
hope you have time to load whatever firearm you happen to have with you at
the time.
When I renewed my New Mexico CCW a year ago the instructor gave
the class a demonstration of just how quickly a man can move from 7 yards
(that is 21 feet) away. I started with my .45 in the ready position with the
safety off. I was just barely was able to get two rounds into the moving
target before it bumped into me.
If you start with an empty gun, a subject intent on killing you with a knife is
going to have to be a lot more than 21 feet away from you if you wish to
survive the encounter.
Good luck.
Mike, every man has to know his own limitations. If it makes you feel safer,
by all means carry your gun empty.
If someone ever comes at you with a knife, or some other weapon, I certainly
hope you have time to load whatever firearm you happen to have with you at
the time.
When I renewed my New Mexico CCW a year ago the instructor gave
the class a demonstration of just how quickly a man can move from 7 yards
(that is 21 feet) away. I started with my .45 in the ready position with the
safety off. I was just barely was able to get two rounds into the moving
target before it bumped into me.
If you start with an empty gun, a subject intent on killing you with a knife is
going to have to be a lot more than 21 feet away from you if you wish to
survive the encounter.
Good luck.
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Besides the 21-foot Tueller Drill realities, you also have to take into account the possibility that one of your shoulders/arms/wrists/hands may be damaged in the festivities that may precede the lethal part of the encounter; in which case you are trying to chamber a round using your belt buckle or some other injured-shooter survival drill. Not a position you want to be in.
If you want to carry new equipment unchambered for a short time while you build confidence in it, then use that time as an excuse to learn the Israeli Method; but get loaded as soon as possible.
If you want to carry new equipment unchambered for a short time while you build confidence in it, then use that time as an excuse to learn the Israeli Method; but get loaded as soon as possible.
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Hey!!! Did you take your training at Butch Cassidy's Pro Force training facility? I got my CCW license from him. Nice guy and informative class. I voted yes to the poll. I carried with one in the chamber when I was on duty for 22 years and do so now as a retired LEO. That's not to say that you can't get a pistol out of the holster and jack the slide VERY QUICKLY. That is the method the Israelis taught those who carried a Browning pistol. But it takes an awful lot of daily practice to become proficient at it. And with the design of modern handguns, I don't think it's necessary.
MGMike: "...nor a soldier in a war zone." I suggest you need to change your mindset. We ARE at war, no matter what the peaceniks and liberals may tell you. We HAVE BEEN attacked, and it's likely we will be attacked again in the future. Your pistol won't stop a plane from crashing into a building, and you may feel safe and comfy living out in the boonies, but the possibility of civil unrest, rioting, looting, rape, armed robbery, etc is a REAL possibility. We are living in violent times and if you aren't prepared to meet violence WITH violence, well you just won't survive. Accidents can and will happen and Mr. Murphy lives among us. So the best way to prevent them is train and use common sense. I think any gun in good condition that hasn't had it's internals messed with is probably the safest mechanism you can operate today. CARS are much less safe than guns IMHO. I spent 22 years carrying a whole variety of handguns with a round in the chamber. I NEVER had an accidental discharge. Why would you feel your odds are higher??? I am also not a fast draw artist, but I don't think fast draw is all that necessary. Hell, if you see a situation developing get that gun out BEFORE a fast draw is necessary. You may be able to prevent it just by the gun's appearance along with telling whoever is threatening you "I have a gun and I'm not afraid to use it. Step the FU** back and get down on the ground". You don't want your epitaph to read "the damned cowboy was only half-assed prepared for an emergency".
Dep
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I like this guy.....We HAVE BEEN attacked, and it's likely we will be attacked again in the future. Your pistol won't stop a plane from crashing into a building, and you may feel safe and comfy living out in the boonies, but the possibility of civil unrest, rioting, looting, rape, armed robbery, etc is a REAL possibility. We are living in violent times and if you aren't prepared to meet violence WITH violence, well you just won't survive. Accidents can and will happen and Mr. Murphy lives among us. So the best way to prevent them is train and use common sense. I think any gun in good condition that hasn't had it's internals messed with is probably the safest mechanism you can operate today. CARS are much less safe than guns IMHO. I spent 22 years carrying a whole variety of handguns with a round in the chamber. I NEVER had an accidental discharge. Why would you feel your odds are higher??? I am also not a fast draw artist, but I don't think fast draw is all that necessary. Hell, if you see a situation developing get that gun out BEFORE a fast draw is necessary. You may be able to prevent it just by the gun's appearance along with telling whoever is threatening you "I have a gun and I'm not afraid to use it. Step the FU** back and get down on the ground". You don't want your epitaph to read "the damned cowboy was only half-assed prepared for an emergency".
Dep
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Surprised 17% carry condition 3.
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I used to carry a P99 QA .40, and old it out of stupidity, I got a good deal on an IMI SP21 .45 which I actually like and will keep, however, I carried the P99 condition 1, i currently carry the .45 condition 1 until I can get a P99 9mm(which will be my primary carry weapon.
I see carrying a pistol concealed is a lot like carrying a condom in my wallet. 9 times out of 10 when I leave my house, I know I'm not going to need the condom, but on the off chance I do, it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. With that said, it is my personal opinion that carrying condition 2 or condition 3 would be the equivalent to poking said condom with a needle before putting it in my wallet. IMHO it would be worthless.
As for MG, I live in a town that boasts about low crime rates. Been here most of my life, and in the last 5 years, we've gone from 1 to 2 murders every couple years, to 5 murders in the last 6 months, to me that's a huge increase in violent crime. I never thought I would have a gun pulled on me in this town, and last summer when it did, my instinct kicked in, the very next day I purchased my first handgun(P99 QA .40 previously mentioned), and applied for my concealed carry permit. I've carried every day since.
I see carrying a pistol concealed is a lot like carrying a condom in my wallet. 9 times out of 10 when I leave my house, I know I'm not going to need the condom, but on the off chance I do, it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. With that said, it is my personal opinion that carrying condition 2 or condition 3 would be the equivalent to poking said condom with a needle before putting it in my wallet. IMHO it would be worthless.
As for MG, I live in a town that boasts about low crime rates. Been here most of my life, and in the last 5 years, we've gone from 1 to 2 murders every couple years, to 5 murders in the last 6 months, to me that's a huge increase in violent crime. I never thought I would have a gun pulled on me in this town, and last summer when it did, my instinct kicked in, the very next day I purchased my first handgun(P99 QA .40 previously mentioned), and applied for my concealed carry permit. I've carried every day since.
I wish my odds were that good when I was on the make years ago.
Of course condom use wasn't quite so prevalent then so maybe its a good thing my odds weren't that good.
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I don't think I'd use that excuse on my wife for carrying a concealed weapon.I wish my odds were that good when I was on the make years ago.
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