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Discussion Starter #1
I have a sale pending on the following Danish police PP:

From what I've read, Walther replaced 2000 PP slides for the Danish police due to potential cracking. This slide doesn't have the updated sights, so I assume the slide is original. Does this make it more or less valuable? Is the price reasonable? (FWIW, I offered a bit less and it was accepted.)

Also, I read that pre-war models had the Rigspolitiet (National Police) marking RPLT. Post-war models didn't have this. So, how do I know this was a Danish Police issue?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I hate to be the one who bumps this up, but I would like some information before I pull the trigger on this gun. Thanks!
 

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Well, at first: buy Dieter Marschall's book! Available from legacy collectibles. Denmarks police bought PP/PPK since 1966, before 1966 danish police was unarmed after WWII. So this gun is questionable, it was proofed in 1962...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I contacted the seller and he said that he made a deal of 56 PP's sold at a police auction in Copenhagen from the gun dealer who bought them. He had a lot of these pistols on his site and GunBroker account. I don't have a reason to doubt him.

Even if it wasn't a Danish police pistol, it looks in really great shape for a 320XXX (1962) serial number.
 

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Due to the absence of police markings, Danish police PPs are usually positively identified as such only by peripherals like stickers on the box. As Martin said, regular Danish uniformed officers were indeed unarmed before 1965/66. You‘d have to do some research to find out whether specialty officers, maybe motorcycle escort officers in Copenhagen‘s government quarter, were armed before that time.

The importer whose stamp is on the magazine well has a good reputation, so I‘d take his word that that‘s what it is. Given the condition, it is not a bad price at any rate.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
There were a number of PP's in the batch, and some had lanyards and some didn't. The dealer has a contact who used to be in the Danish police who confirmed that the ones with the lanyards still attached were used by motorcycle police only.
 

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Also, among his already sold items were pistols which still had the box:
Now THAT is interesting, because even though the box has a Danish sticker and matching serial sticker, the pistol is actually a former German police PP from Baden-Württemberg, The defaced stamp is below the serial on the grip frame.

Maybe that explains your 1962 proof date. The Danes shopped for some second-hand pistols and got these in the 1970s when B-W adopted the PP Super. Yours wouldn't be from B-W, but maybe another German state that didn't mark.

92899
 

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Now THAT is interesting, because even though the box has a Danish sticker and matching serial sticker, the pistol is actually a former German police PP from Baden-Württemberg.
First, we can't be sure that it's the original box to the gun. Second, how do we explain the wrong grip plates?
 

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First, we can't be sure that it's the original box to the gun. Second, how do we explain the wrong grip plates?
With the (clearly old) sticker having a matching serial hand-written on it, I think we can reasonably assume that the gun was paired with that box not at the factory, but sometime during its service; in my experience in Europe these are not valuable enough that I would entertain the idea anyone would “fake” a matching box for “collector” purposes ;)

And grips were replaced all the time, so that likely won’t provide anything evidentiary.
 

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I've never heard about German police surplus guns used by Danish police. Bought in Denmark by a Danish dealer is possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I've been trading emails from the owner at www.deerhollowonline.com and he has a pretty neat story about how he acquired all of these and what kind of pistols were in the lot. He did mention that some had defaced German police markings, some had boxes, some had lanyards, etc. There were even a few .22s, one carried by a narcotics officer. I'll try to convince him to register and post to this forum. He seems like a pretty interesting guy.
 

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Btw. to the gun you've posted at first: These lanyard loops were available as an accessoires from the factory and interchangeable. In my personal opinion these guns were sold in Denmark, that doesn't mean, they were used by Danish police.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The dealer has a friend who used to be in the Danish police. The ex-Policeman let him know about the auction and put him in contact with the dealer in Copenhagen who bought the lot of pistols. I found out that he (the dealer) is a member here (Olle). I'm going to send him the link to this thread so he can clarify anything that I've missed.
 

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I'm the dealer who found these guns in Denmark, so here's the story: I have a friend who's a retired Danish police officer and fellow gun enthusiast, and he got wind of a lot of 56 PPs that came out of a police surplus sale in the Copenhagen area. A local dealer had bought them, but for some reason he couldn't get them registered to sell on the commercial market. I suspect that their government surplus status was the problem, kinda like untitled cars that couldn't be titled due to the legislation. I asked my friend why some had lanyards, and he explained that only motorcycle police used these. Basically, the lanyards and loops were just in the way to other officers, so they didn't have a use for them and didn't even want them. There were also a few .22s in the lot, I thought they were for training but my friend told me that they were very popular among undercover officers due to the lighter weight and slightly higher mag capacity. Another interesting find was a Copenhagen Police marked shoulder holster, once carried by an undercover narcotics officer (sorry, didn't get the right gun to go with it). This holster is now in my own collection, and it will more than likely stay there.

Anyway, after some negotiation I ended up buying the lot and imported it through my friend Scott with Pilkguns. We inspected them all when they came in, and just as one would expect it was a wide assortment of variations and conditions. Some were entirely original, some were reworked, some had signs of previous use by German police etc. Basically, it was just like any other lot surplus guns, you have to pick through it to separate the good from the bad and the ugly. The Danish police didn't see them as collectibles, so if the grips were broken or worn out they simply replaced them. If the boxes got mixed up, no problem. Put a new inventory sticker on it and it's good to go. That's just the nature of surplus guns, there's no guarantee that they are 100% like they came from the factory. Really, it's no different than buying a surplus P1 or any other surplus gun. It sure is nice if they're all factory original, but don't expect them to be.

All these guns were graded, and priced accordingly. There were some really nice ones (some of them I wish I hadn't sold), and a few pretty ugly ones. Some needed minor repairs, and one even had to be scrapped out since it was in such poor condition. Granted, there's no way to prove that they're Danish police guns since they never marked them as such, the only way would be to find the original contracts. If they were bought used from Germany or from Danish Walther dealers, you're probably SOL. So as far as the police heritage goes, you just have to take my word for it or call BS.

The bottom line is that they are surplus guns that have seen service, and that's the way you have to look at them. After all: An American made PPK/S is in the same price range, so all it really amounts to is if you want a German made PP with an interesting history instead.
 

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Hi Olle, understood the explanation. I wouldn't sell these guns as a Danish police surplus in general as you don't know what they really are...
 

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I doubt we have the ability to access the sources you’d need to determine how B-W stamped pistols made it to Denmark. But trading service pistols between German states wasn’t unheard of, so including Denmark wouldn’t be that exotic. Now that I think about it, trading pistols to another agency would explain why B-W obsessively obliterated its property mark, rather than just crossing it out or leaving it like most other states when surplusing the guns. But that, of course, is pure speculation ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi Olle, understood the explanation. I wouldn't sell these guns as a Danish police surplus in general as you don't know what they really are...
I think the story behind these guns is compelling enough that they are as Olle has said - from police surplus. There's no real reason to make this up. It's not like these guns are demanding a high premium just because they are Danish Police issue. They are just as he said - normal surplus guns. Even if you don't buy the story, they are worth what he's asking.
 

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It's what you say. But you've linked two offers telling, these guns are Danish police surplus, witch is questionable in both cases.
 

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Just for fun, one might add that in certain collector circles (including me), the Baden-Württemberg provenance of the second linked gun, which is ironclad, rates significantly higher than any Danish connection ... :D
 
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