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DA/SA or QA or DAO -

  • DA/SA (Anti-Stress)

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • QA

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • DAO

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Discussion Starter #1
What model is the most appropriate for self/home protection?

Especially interesting will probably be DA/SA vs QA as I don't expect very many people will vote for DAO anyway. I realize, QA is a double-action also but still - P99 QA is different from P99 DAO, so let's keep them separate.
 

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THe AS model is what makes the P99 unique. It sets it apart from all the other striker fired pistols
Glock
Steyr
Springfield XD
Taurus
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And you voted against the uniqueness of the SA - you voted for the QA. Could you please clarify - why QA is better than SA (DA/SA)? I'm going to buy a P99 soon but cannot completely decide - DA/SA and QA... Could you help?
 

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snovi,

It is important to realize that it isn't always a matter of which is better...

It is about what YOU PREFER.  Try to find a range where you can shoot the QA, then try to find an AS, THEN, pick which one you like the best.

I've noticed that you've essentially asked "which is better" in two or three different threads.  The reason you keep getting the runaround is because everyone has their preference.  You'll need to find yours!  Happy shooting.

-stunks
 

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Discussion Starter #5
stunksinatl - I agree with the approach you recommended 100%, it makes perfect sense to me. In reality, unfortunately, there is only one shooting range in the area where I live and they have only one P99 - DA/SA. Which makes practical comparison kind of tough... From what I saw in forums, it seems like QA is more appropriate (better, in other words) as it has consistent, but not as long/heavy as DAO, trigger. And other companies, like Glock and Springfield, use the same as (or very close to) QA trigger in their G19 and XD-9. There is probably a good reason for them to do this.

As a P99 owner, could you explain in what situation(s) DA/SA could be more appropriate/better than QA?
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (snovi @ Sep. 28 2005,09:07)]There is probably a good reason for them to do this.

As a P99 owner, could you explain in what situation(s) DA/SA could be more appropriate/better than QA?
Police departments like DAO pistols because they are simple. There are a lot of cops who really don't practice with their firearms. Also, there is a slight amount of time (for some people) when they reposition their finger between the first and second shot on a DA/SA firearm.

I prefer DA/SA because I like knowing that:

1. The striker is all of the way forward when I am carrying.
2. After the first shot, I will have nice soft pulls for all subsequent shots.
3. If I have my pistol out of my holster for whatever reason, I am not worried that anything will accidentally pull the trigger back, it would have to be deliberate.
 

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snovi,

If you are new to handguns, I'd say get the QA.  It is a bit more simple to operate, and one need only about pulling the trigger when needed (not transitioning between the first DA shot and second and subsequent SA shots of the AS system).  When I first started learning, it took me a while to not accidentally discharge that second shot (single action) after the heavier first DA shot.  It can be learned, but for practical purposes QA is probably the better weapon in high stress home protection scenarios (there's just less to think about).

More experienced shooters usually like the idea of having a traditional double action (DA/SA).  It tends to offer more ways to fire the weapon.  On the P99, you can retract the slide a bit and cock the striker to go right into trigger forward AS single action.  With other pistols, like a PPK or SIG etc, one can pull the hammer back manually to go into single action.  You can't do that on the QA.

Those that carry, like "tabor," don't dislike the partially cocked systems like the QA, but they'd prefer to have a striker at rest just in case.  The heavier first DA pull is also a "safety" feature that many are comfortable with.  Others that carry, and don't shoot a lot (like tabor said) might prefer the QA again because of simplicity.

Seems to me like you're leaning toward the QA.  I'd go for it.  Reading your other posts, it seems the notion of the QA system appeals to you more than the AS.  If you already feel that you'd be more comfortable with the QA, then I think that makes your decision right there.  Also, you'd be hard pressed to actually find a new AS these days.  Good luck on your decision, happy and safe shooting.

-stunks

EDIT: spelling
EDIT2:

Also, concerning the widespread proliferation of DAO-like (glock's safe action, XD's USA, Walther QA, and others) trigger configurations, it is a trend that is fueled mainly by Glock's success in the law enforcement market.  Other manufacturers want a piece of the pie, too, so they come out with their own variations of the system.  I really think that's why most new handguns have this kind of firing mechanism.  Not because it is better than another, because it is what is making money right now.  Again, there is no perfect gun for every situation, you'll need to decide what the perfect gun is for your situation.
 

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Some others have given you some excellent advice on the various triggers set-ups. Let me add just one tiny but important fact:

The last thing you will ever remember………..in a situation where you are fighting for your life…….is the trigger pull of your weapon---whether it felt like a 8 lb. pull or 14lb. pull. So with that fact out of the way………the operation of the gun becomes more important, especially if you don’t shoot or practice often- at least once a month. So buy a gun that fits your "shooting habits"………..a simpler operating trigger system for those that don’t practice that often ( and Yes Police dept.s fall into this category—sadly ).

But the most important aspect of buying a gun has not been touched on in IMHO and that is how well the gun fits in your hand. The trigger stroke becomes part of this fit and will determine how accurate you will be at any given moment. I don’t care how light or long or short a trigger pull is……………..if you can’t hold the gun in a consistent manner from the first shot to the last………….you won’t be that accurate with it or a better way of putting it , you won’t be as accurate as you could be if you had a gun & trigger pull that accommodates your physical stature of your hand perfectly. This is why I like the Walther over so many other semi-auto’s……it has the built in adjustments you can make to the grip with the back-strap replacements.

JF
 

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Excellent advice, sniper350, in regards to the fit of a gun in one's hand. Hadn't thought about that. I don't know why, but I tend to shoot better with guns that have a grip angle and girth similar to the 1911 frame. The P99 falls into this category.

I have shot a few glocks that are kind of stout on the frame (my hands aren't huge), especially front to back, and they were actually not only uncomfortable to shoot, but harder to shoot well and consistently.

I completely agree, the feel of the gun in one's hand is a MUST in considering the right firearm to buy, excellent advice.

-stunks
 

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Trigger weight is not nearly as important as trigger length and how evenly your hand can deliver that pull. My first IDPA match I was very nervous and the only thing I really noticed was that the first pull was long and the rest were short. The 12# to 6# or whatever the weight is for the AS trigger was insignificant to me during that first course of fire. I did poorly that match and it wouldn't matter what gun I had.

Snovi - Remember that its not the gun its how well you can use it. That means range practice, joining a shooting club like IDPA (idpa.com) or IPSC, taking training courses at places like Blackwater (if you can afford trips like that) and dry fire practice. The P99 is a quality gun and regardless of your trigger selection you should be confident in it. If anything, just buy one and start practicing. If you find through your training that you prefer another P99 trigger system, then buy a different one or sell your gun and use the money to buy another... its not like you are getting married to your gun.

Any model is appropriate for self/home protection...I assume you will get your carry permit too.
 

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Sniper350 was right on the mark -- the weight of the pull will be insignificant in a home defense situation. Adrenaline will take care of that. Home defense is also the situation where I would want the AS trigger, because no matter what....WHEN I PULL THE TRIGGER IT WILL GO BANG! That is not a guarantee with a QA model - however remote the possibility. In a stressful situation like home defense (or concealed carry) I'm just not will to take the chance. Lots of people will argue against my reasoning, but it comes down to a personal choice. And I made mine with the AS trigger.

YMMV

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The only time when loaded QA will NOT go bang after pulling the trigger is if you explicitly de-cock it (must use a tool), right? Or am I missing some other possibilities?
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (snovi @ Oct. 17 2005,10:00)]The only time when loaded QA will NOT go bang after pulling the trigger is if you explicitly de-cock it (must use a tool), right? Or am I missing some other possibilities?
The QA is easily de-cocked without a tool, while not easily de-cocked accidentally. And like the AS it is easily re-cocked with a short slide stroke.
 

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Why would you decock a QA if you're not going to disassemble it??? It just isn't a wise move, in my book. The pistol is safe enough, there's no need to put oneself at a situational disadvantage because you're QA is decocked!


-stunks
 

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Discussion Starter #18
To use the decocking as an equivalent of the missing in P99 manual safety. You know, QA does not have DA-type safety of the A/S and DAO models.

From my personal point of view, it would be better if QA had traditional manual safety. This way it would have "the best of both worlds": consistent, relatively light/short trigger and safety that could be quickly and reliably disengaged when the gun is pulled out of the holster. For the argument it would take additional time to disengage the safety, this is purely a training issue. It's the same as training to pull your gun out of the holster, which also adds some delay. But are you walking with your gun in hand or keep in a holster?
 

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Snovi,

I understand what you're saying, BUT, the QA is adequately safe without decocking for carry. A person it setting themselves up for having an already bad situation go south if the gun will not immediately go BANG upon presentation if needed!

The holster is the manual safety you're looking for, because it protects the trigger. If you're gun leaves the holster, you've disengaged this safety and are ready to fire. I'm sorry, it just seems absurd to decock the QA for carrying.

-stunks
 

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Discussion Starter #20
stunksinatl,

Oh ya, let’s start insulting each other. Way to go… If you were so-o-o right and the manual safety would be so-o-o extra, other companies like HK, Sig, Beretta, and many others would not keep making them...
 
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