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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been instructing now for 4 months. Mostly small groups 2 to 10. Had a few hundred shooters. By no means am I experienced the way someone might be who has been doing this for 30 years. I am still learning and growing.

But if it’s one thingI have leaned, what people think are mechanical problems with guns.....are not mechanical. It’s the shooter and they mostly don’t want to believe that.

People also WAY over estimate their experience level.

Most common:

- Gun jams due to limp wrisiting. Very easy to verify. Customers don’t want to admit they are doing it Until I fire the gun and it doesn’t jam.

- Jams and misfires 100% because shooters hang on to the slide and don’t let the springs do their job. PULL THAT SUCKER BACK AND LET GO FOWARD ON ITS OWN. The springs will do the work.

- They think their sites are “off” until I show them that I can drill bulls with it.


In almost every case shooters have these problems and say things like “I have been shooting for years” and “I don’t have this problem with other guns.”

I even had a women recently who bought a brand new handgun. Bought ammo. Told me it was a 9M. But said that something was wrong with the gun. Turns out it was a .40. Said she has been shooting with her brothers all her life. She had been trying to shoot 9mm ammo through a .40.

SO, why do I say all this? Its because even on sites like this, there are people that will insist “it’s the gun”. And some of us will suggest things about your technique and people get aggrevated. I have seen these issues now in person a few dozen times.....people insisting they are doing something correctly and within 20 secs I can see the problem. Tell them...they deny it......do it for them in person, and then they get it.

We don’t have that advantage on forums.

So, when some of us suggest basic remedies, don’t be insulted. Just because a bad technique didn’t cause an issue with one gun, doesn’t mean it won’t cause an issue with a different one. Don’t assume the problem is the gun. It might be you.
 

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I am a veteran police officer, retired, and have been shooting handguns for over 50 years now. I assisted a local concealed carry course instructor for 2 years, and they would bring the shooter and gun that wouldn't perform over to me, and I would shoot the gun for them to assess the problem. As you state, it was rarely the gun, and almost everyone that had an issue with their gun went quietly back to the line, and proceeded with a new outlook on what he or she needed to do to improve, no longer blaming the gun. I think most of us know when WE are having a bad day, and when it is NOT the gun. :)
 

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It is not the gun except when it is the gun.
Only one nib gun purchased by me was bad due to incomplete barrel rifling finish.
S&W 60-14. Would not group even at 5 yd off sandbag.
Called S&W they apparently new they had a bad batch.
S&W replaced the barrel.
Fixed it. Off hand two handed 5 yd clover leaf groups.
So if you test it out see it is suspect then get a second opinion.
If obviously bad and by visual inspection you see problems call the manufacturer.
Most of the time it is poor marksmanship fundamentals not the gun.
 

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Advice that works for the sender doesn't always work for the receiver.
Someone in the lady's past told her that it is ok to shoot 9mm in a 40.
The instructor label doesn't always mean the person is a expert. We all have opinions about some of the instructors that are well known in the YouTube and internet world. A few people know no better and take their advice as verbatim because they have 100000 subscribers and 100 million views.

I see instructors teaching advanced handgun topics and tactics in a basic handgun course. KEYWORD BASIC. They are not military special forces or swat members.

Knowledge first, training last
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Advice that works for the sender doesn't always work for the receiver.
Someone in the lady's past told her that it is ok to shoot 9mm in a 40.
The instructor label doesn't always mean the person is a expert. We all have opinions about some of the instructors that are well known in the YouTube and internet world. A few people know no better and take their advice as verbatim because they have 100000 subscribers and 100 million views.

I see instructors teaching advanced handgun topics and tactics in a basic handgun course. KEYWORD BASIC. They are not militarye special forces or swat members.

Knowledge first, training last
She didn’t think that.....she thought she had a 9 and not a 40. She says sh was sold a 9. Was sold 9 mm ammo for it....but the gun is a 9. For figure. Had me fooled for a bit too.
 

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Roger that; I think poor weapons handing plus poor knowledge of functioning is often a reason (aka "slide bite" and/or "it's a jamomatic") why so many perfectly fine PPK / PPKS Walthers are traded or sold after low round counts.

When I starting shooting my first PPK Walther I realized I was inducing a jam when I loaded a mag with the slide forward without ensuring the mag was locked in place. (A close slide requires extra force to lock in place on when the slide is forward.) I also noticed I tended to limp wrist when I gripped high and was bit by the slide. I blamed the weapon when it was my manual of arms the whole time.
 

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For teaching the grandkids, I added one obvious rule to the basic safety rules that we always talk about; know how your weapon works. There are various mechanical characteristics that make no two guns alike, especially semi-auto pistols, with some having significant differences. This “rule” includes take down (field strip) procedures.

True story: when I took the shooting portion of my concealed carry class several years ago, there were three people there who had literally NO idea how to operate the gun that they brought to qualify for a concealed handgun permit (in NC, we get a CHP). Some of that is a regulatory failure to require completion of a basic firearms class prior to taking a CHP class, but mostly it is a personal (responsibility) failure. I would bet that every one of us has made some dumb operational error with our guns (e.g., why am I pulling the trigger and nothing is happening?). I know that I have :eek: My $0.02
 
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I've been doing a basic handgun class for 30 years. It has been my experience that women are more apt pupils, because usually they don't have a lot of preconceived, wrong, ideas in their heads.
Moon
^^^Absolutely 100%. I have even had those same exact words come out of my mouth. And, usually, this upsets the husband/boyfriend when they come to classes together; the lady often ends up outshooting the gentleman. We used to split them up upon arrival to keep emotions out of the proceedings.:)
 

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I've been doing a basic handgun class for 30 years. It has been my experience that women are more apt pupils, because usually they don't have a lot of preconceived, wrong, ideas in their heads.
Moon
I ran a competitive junior shooting program, and we almost always found that the girls just followed directions better than the boys - so they ended-up scoring better.

When they were about 10 and 11 I took my son and daughter out to shoot air rifle. My daughter, with no experience, went first. I told her exactly what to do - and she did it - hitting the can first try. My son stepped up, and before I was able to say anything he let me know he had done plenty of shooting games and knew just what to do. Took him 3 or 4 shots to hit the can.

We never let him forget it.

Shortly, he will be learning to shoot all over again. This time I'm sure he will listen better - as I'm not his instructor.

He just joined the Marines and is in the middle of Basic Training right now.
 

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I've been doing a basic handgun class for 30 years. It has been my experience that women are more apt pupils, because usually they don't have a lot of preconceived, wrong, ideas in their heads.
I teach basic pistol and basic rifle and have had the same experience.


the lady often ends up outshooting the gentleman
Yup!


I ran a competitive junior shooting program, and we almost always found that the girls just followed directions better than the boys - so they ended-up scoring better.
I've noted this, as well, but I don't think it's just about following directions. When teaching youths, the girls seem to be focused on how well they score, while the boys seem focused on making the firearm go 'bang' again. i.e. I think goals play into the result every bit as much as following directions, and it's always felt to me like the girls tend to want to do well while the boys tend to want the rush associated with the trigger pull.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
While I don’t like to generalize about groups of people of sexes but there are many consistencies I have observed. While I think women make better students I think the issue is often more about who has used a gun in the past and who is not. I think guys are more likely to have had previous experience with at least some shooting. And they tend to come to the class with bad habits. Students with no experience seem more open to listen and take direction.
 

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While I don’t like to generalize about groups of people of sexes but there are many consistencies I have observed. While I think women make better students I think the issue is often more about who has used a gun in the past and who is not. I think guys are more likely to have had previous experience with at least some shooting. And they tend to come to the class with bad habits. Students with no experience seem more open to listen and take direction.

I certainly can agree with this. When we were instructing recruits at the LE academy, some had very little or no firearm experience. We always had the group who shot before either in the military, or some other prior experience. Observed several bad habits. The other group were for the most part easy to teach and they paid attention. It was interesting to say the least.
 

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While I don’t like to generalize about groups of people of sexes but there are many consistencies I have observed.
Do you feel there is there some kind of problem with making anecdotal and/or factual observations about groups of students you've taught over time … just because gender may be involved as a part of those observations?

I ask because most of the world does this. Heck, whenever you hear the media talk about a pay gap between the genders, that observation cannot be made without gender being part of the observation. I guess what I'm trying to understand is the 'why' of your stance, since, culturally, there simply isn't anything wrong with experience-based and/or fact-based observation … even when gender happens to be involved.
 

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Making judgements involving gender and race being the 3d rail of American politics...it's a great way to get on the nightly news. :eek:


And, since we're being judgemental anyway, guys are loath to admit being lousy lovers, bad mechanics, or poor shots. Hey, it's just who we are. :D

Moon
ETA-"...and we don't need no stinkin' directions, either!"
M
 

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Consider:
  • GPS was invented to compensate for a lack of direction sense and an unwillingness to ask for directions.
  • OBD (on-board diagnostics) was invented to compensate for poor mechanical skills by allowing cars to tell us what's wrong with them.
  • Little blue pills were invented to compensate for … well … the need for help in the lover department.
  • And the TrackingPoint system was invented to compensate for an inability to shoot.

At this rate, soon women won't need us in their lives, at all; there will be some compensating technology to augment or replace every aspect of us. :confused:
 
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