[balance]

Has anyone seen this? I found some parts very interesting, some of which I quoted below, as well as a timeline about three quarters of the way down the page.



Gun manufacturer waited months to warn the public its pistol could fire when dropped - CNN

When the Army put out a bid for its next-generation pistol in 2015, the weapons industry’s top manufacturers fought for a chance at a mega contract. During testing on April 20, 2016, the military says it discovered that the Sig Sauer pistol would fire on its own when dropped. The examination used a test version of ammunition, similar to a blank. A recent Department of Defense report describes what happened.
“During drop testing in which an empty primed cartridge was inserted, the striker struck the primer causing a discharge,” the report says. “Sig Sauer implemented an Engineering Change Proposal (ECP) to correct this deficiency by implementing lightweight components in the trigger group mechanism.”
It’s unclear when Sig Sauer made that improvement, but it was in place in time for Army testing trials in April 2017, the report says. “The [modular handgun system] with this … modification was submitted as the production-representative pistol for [product verification testing] … (T)he Army entered into PVT in April 2017.”
The Army assured CNN that since that fix, “there is no drop test deficiency” with its new Sig Sauer pistol, which includes two models of different sizes that the military has dubbed the XM17 and XM18.
But that timing means Sig Sauer provided a repair for the military at least four months before launching the same fix for the civilian market. CNN was unable to reach Sig Sauer to ask how many of the pre-upgrade P320s were sold to the general public. But the company told industry journalists that it sold more than 500,000 before it announced the upgrade, and before the Army put the pistol into the field.

CNN called large and small gun shops in 20 states in early May. The older version of the P320 pistol was still on store shelves in 11 of the 40 gun shops we reached. And a CNN review of private seller postings in early May on Armslist.com, an online marketplace for guns, found that at least 162 of the 400 models being sold there since March were the problematic older version – easily identified by its thick trigger.
Of the sellers online, only four warned potential buyers about the problem. Three sellers displayed unrepaired guns, yet claimed they had been upgraded. Another seller photographed the gun with the ammunition magazine laid over the trigger area, leaving the prospective buyer guessing whether the gun was upgraded or not.

This would explain why when Sig supposedly found out about the issue, publicly, they then had a fix for it, within the time of about one day.

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

CNN, this meme sums them up.......


[Image removed by moderator]

 

[balance]

CNN, this meme sums them up.......

So those police officers in the article are all liars? As well as the people who are responsible for the DOD report?

I don't care where it comes from. I care if it is true.

You would put your faith in Sig? The same company who made a "voluntary upgrade" rather than an all-out recall, probably so that they wouldn't have to admit fault being that there are multiple people suing them for unsafe firearms that fired simply from a drop from waist high?

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

No.


The fact that CNN has reported SO many lies, and gotten SO much wrong, makes my unable to make it thru an article where they might have gotten something right.


Also, rest assured, if CNN is doing a story on firearms, it will have a NEGATIVE effect on the publics view/opinion in regard to the 2nd A.


I won't get news on gun issues from CNN, just like I won't contact Everytown for Gun Safety about what guns are "safest".

 

[balance]

Also, rest assured, if CNN is doing a story on firearms, it will have a NEGATIVE effect on the publics view/opinion in regard to the 2nd A.

I agree. But I would suggest that people not support manufacturers that give them newsworthy stories like this, and I do believe that out of all the stories about guns on the news, this is one that absolutely should be covered. There is a manufacturer out there that knowingly sold around 500k unsafe pistols to fellow 2nd Amendment activists, then did their best to not admit any fault in doing so. I believe everyone should be aware of this.


The focus should be on Sig here, not the people who helped in bringing light to their practices.

 

[PPS1980]

IF CNN told me that the sky was blue, I'd open a window and check. That said, this is OLD, OLD, OLD news but has been recycled by them to add "ammunition" to their case against GUNS!! Seriously, if there is a way to illegitimately spin a story to be anti-2A they'll create it.


Is the 320 a POS - Yup. Is SIG worse under the venture capitalist controlling it - Yup. Have they rushed their last 2 polymer weapons into production - Yup. Would I own one - Nope.

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

The new CNN motto......


"CNN, because EVEN a broken clock is right twice a day".


And the question for those looking, WHY ARE YOU STILL LOOKING AT A BROKEN CLOCK !?!?!?!?

 

[extremist]

Is the 320 a POS - Yup. Is SIG worse under the venture capitalist controlling it - Yup. Have they rushed their last 2 polymer weapons into production - Yup. Would I own one - Nope.

Nope, my P320 Compact is a great weapon, accurate, light, great trigger.

Just bought my second P365, AWESOME carry gun.

My P320 X5 is also an awesome competition gun, certainly comparable to the Q5/M2 5" and the Canik TP9SFX that I also own.

So, a dissenting view.

 

[PPS1980]

Nope, my P320 Compact is a great weapon, accurate, light, great trigger.

Just bought my second P365, AWESOME carry gun.

My P320 X5 is also an awesome competition gun, certainly comparable to the Q5/M2 5" and the Canik TP9SFX that I also own.

So, a dissenting view.

Glad you are happy. Many are. But too many are not. I try to not borrow trouble on a weapon I might use to defend myself. I'll stick with weapons that have fewer documented issues.

 

[socrates007]

I agree. But I would suggest that people not support manufacturers that give them newsworthy stories like this, and I do believe that out of all the stories about guns on the news, this is one that absolutely should be covered. There is a manufacturer out there that knowingly sold around 500k unsafe pistols to fellow 2nd Amendment activists, then did their best to not admit any fault in doing so. I believe everyone should be aware of this.


The focus should be on Sig here, not the people who helped in bringing light to their practices.

I had purchased a Sig P320 when they first came out. When I heard about the drop safety issue, I sold it as quick as I could. That was really bad on Sig's part to wait as long as they did to make a fix available. And as you pointed out, it was not a mandatory recall but rather a voluntary upgrade. That tarnished Sig in my eyes forever.

Now with all the troubles plaguing their new P365, I just don't trust that company - period. I hope they go out of business for all I care. How dare they take people's money and produce such junk. People depend on their lives with those firearms - especially the P365 which was totally marketed to the CCW public. I refuse to purchase from Sig for such reasons, and why would you when there are Walther pistols that work much better

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

I seriously considered the P320 before the PPQ 45 purchase, was hoping SIG would release the P320 RX 45acp, the military contract required all engineering effort and the hinting of the RX 45 stopped.
The SIG issues combined with the poor finish work I've seen on +1k Legion guns had me actually selling my US produced P227 to help finance my first 9mm. I'm on the lookout for another SIG, ONLY quality European production units. Calling a recall an upgrade was the final straw IMHO. In my book, better sights or a match barrel swap are "upgrades", fixing a drop/discharge issue is a "recall".


This goes WAY beyond SIG. My mission quest to get an acceptable Wilson Combat 92G Brig Tac now has me looking for old Italian QUALITY Berettas. If I could find a NIB 92G SD, I would open my wallet WIDE!!! Wilson Combat should send a rep to the TN Beretta facility, Hudson H1 in hand, and show them what the fit and finish of a Beretta SHOULD look like. Really want to insult them? Let them know the Hudson can be had for around $300 LESS then the WC BT. The Hudson is how production guns are built in Texas, RIGHT!


My Para 1911 14.45 Expert NIB/Estate purchase was driven by looking at several Remington R1s and 16.45s (Remington's parent company bought PARA lock/stock/barrel), gave me a new respect for the PARA built 45acp wide-frame 1911s. If I could find a NIB/NOS double stack 45 Para in stainless (Black Ops, Expert, Limited.....), I would gladly pay DOUBLE what they sold for when in production.


The only two firearm purchases that didn't put me off with poor attention to detail were the Walther and Desert Eagle 50AE stainless/ported. These show attention to detail in spades.


The Desert Eagle makes my like.........

 

[Jimbo80]

We've been having all kinds of problems with the 238 of late. I wouldn't buy a new Sig.

 

[MGMike]

I have a very hard time believing the 500,000 figure.

M

 

[balance]

I have a very hard time believing the 500,000 figure.

There were three different sizes of grips, and three different sizes of slides.

I wonder if they were including all of the parts produced that would have to be returned to Sig for this "voluntary upgrade". There are many people out there that reportedly bought one pistol, and multiple slides and grips for it. I know each slide would have to be machined again, and changes would have to be made to the fire control units. Otherwise, Sig would have had to sell around 14k pistols a month since the pistol was released to accomplish 500k pistols sold.

I hope it is that many, as long as every one gets sent back to Sig to be fixed on their dime. I know this isn't the reality of the situation though. There are guys out there on internet gun forums arguing that they are much too manly to ever drop a pistol, and they prove this by simply saying that they've never dropped one before. I wonder what they would say about the people who have dropped their pistols, and who have been injured by pistols that shouldn't have fired.

My main reasons for starting this thread was to let people know that Sig knew about the issue, that people have been injured and property has been destroyed by these pistols firing from a drop from waist high, that these unfixed pistols are out in the wild and are being used and sold, that people are selling unfixed pistols and are claiming that they are fixed, and that people who have these unfixed pistols should take advantage of this "voluntary upgrade" that Sig saw fit to bless you with.

 

[DeutschlandUberAlles]

The fact that the gun got released was enough for me to not consider another new production SIG EVER going forward. Even sold my US produced P227.


Only old euro production SIGs in my safe from here on.


The timeline of what SIG knew and when may matter to some still on the fence, this Cowboy climbed down off THAT fence months ago.

 

[sunny08]

Voluntary upgrade, that would compare to a voluntary recall on your vehicle where the front tires can fall off at any speed.

 

[socrates007]

My main reasons for starting this thread was to let people know that Sig knew about the issue, that people have been injured and property has been destroyed by these pistols firing from a drop from waist high, that these unfixed pistols are out in the wild and are being used and sold, that people are selling unfixed pistols and are claiming that they are fixed, and that people who have these unfixed pistols should take advantage of this "voluntary upgrade" that Sig saw fit to bless you with.

Exactly Balance! Sig knew about this drop safety issue with their P320 pistols and simply did not care. That, coupled with all the P365 issues that have been coming forth, not to mention all the issues I hear from Sig owners about their P938s, and I am done with Sig. Good riddance to them.