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CCP Internal Components Function, Lubrication, etc.

18K views 42 replies 8 participants last post by  1917-1911M 
#1 · (Edited)
I though perhaps we needed another thread where discussion of lubrication, function of internal components, pictures, "how to", etc. could be discussed without being in the running problems thread.



In the rear frame component parts #7, 11, 12, 16, 19 and 20 don't move.

#9 and #8 are the block and spring that press up on the bottom of the cylinder.

Parts # 13 and 33 are springs that press upward on the rear of the sear and connector respectively. Parts #17 and 18 engage the manual safety as far as I can tell.

So, regarding a smooth trigger pull the trigger bar drags across the plunger, rotates the cylinder which pivots the fronts of the connector and sear up which moves the rear down. As long as all of these parts don't have any rough edges and move freely that would seem to be all that is required....that and a little Hoppes.

Lubrication and cleaning. Let's face it. This pistol is going to get dirty when firing...heck, most firearms do but the gas chamber will add to this. So, learn to break the pistol down and clean it. I don't see anything tricky about cleaning and I expect field stripping, spraying with Gun-scrubber or similar, taking a tooth brush to the parts. Then spray again, blow dry, spray with Remington Remoil, spry again, then apply a light coat of oil, like Hoppes, to the outside of the barrel/recoil spring, striker channel/spring, center cut that runs down the counter plate, bottom of the breech where it might slide against the lower frame insert, sear and connector top surfaces and pivot points. The Remoil with teflon should provide adequate lubrication to all other small, locations not easily reached. Reassemble, fire, repeat cleaning. I would think that would cover all the lubrication your need. Clean the chamber, barrel and gas cylinder of course. Don't lube the gas chamber.

I've purchased new firearms that were basically dry inside and I've purchased firearms full of white grease. I clean and lube to my preferences and then go shooting. I can't believe this pistol has been out this long now and no one has removed the grips and stripped that puppy. I'd have done that the first hour I owned one. :) M1911
 
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#4 ·
If Germans can put it together....I can put it together. I will admit that the firing pin assembly and associated parts in the S&W M&P 22 took a little thought. No special tools....but a little though as to....now prezackly how did they put this together. :) M1911

Oh yeah...stay out of the inside of watches and digital cameras. Just buy a new one.
 
#5 ·
Trigger not resetting. I've read a couple of on-line reviews (magazine types) and a couple of comments here where the shooter was having a problem with the trigger not resetting. Now what could cause that? Would someone with a CCP pull the slide rearward 1/16", 1/8", 3/16" 1/4" etc to determine when the slide disconnects the trigger bar. Perhaps something as simple as a dirty chamber and the lower poundage recoil spring not being able to fully close the slide....in which case a clean pistol or a tap on the rear of the slide might be a quick solution. as far as I can tell no one has addressed this issue. M1911
 
#7 ·
That is a large gap so I doubt that is the problem. Some have reported that if they removed and reinstalled the slide then the trigger begins resetting again. So.....??? what might that be about? Made the rounds again today so I could get a look at one of these CCPs....but, still none in town. M1911
 
#8 · (Edited)
That is a large gap so I doubt that is the problem. Some have reported that if they removed and reinstalled the slide then the trigger begins resetting again. So.....??? what might that be about? Made the rounds again today so I could get a look at one of these CCPs....but, still none in town. M1911
I should have described my procedure to be certain I measured what you intended. The trigger bar is partially visible on the right side because there is a very small gap between the frame and slide....about 1/32nd. I applied rearward pressure to the slide while observing the visible portion of the bar. When the bar lowered as far as it could I assumed that was the point of disconnect. If it disconnects before that the measurement would obviously be less than 1/4".
 
#9 ·
That is much less. When the slide is retracted the trigger bar is pressed down by the oval cutout on the right side. What I'm wondering is how far rearward does the slide have to move so that the top of the trigger bar is engaged to the point it disconnects from the cylinder. In other words, you can pull the trigger but the rear of the trigger bar does not engage the cylinder. I can only imagine this is the area where the problem is occurring. When owners are reporting the trigger not resetting I'm wondering what is going on. This has been reported several times hear and at various on line reviews. M1911
 
#11 ·
Enjoyed a lengthy phone discussion with Chandler5566 yesterday regarding the function of of the sear, connector, striker and drop safety. We took it slow and point by point. I learned a few things that you can only learn with pistol in hand. We had an enjoyable discussion and both came to new insights. This is probably the best information I will get until I ever get a pistol in hand if I ever get a pistol in hand. M1911
 
#16 ·
I also enjoyed the conversation and certainly learned a few things about the CCP design, functions and operation. It's interesting how you pick up nuances to things that you thought you understood....and did but not to the detail level that you can discover by working with someone very knowledgeable and has been in the trenches.
Consider the possibility of using Skype for these kinds of calls. I use it every evening for a group session with old ham radio buddies, but it would work well for tech sessions like you guys had. Video adds a lot to these kinds of contacts.

Apple has "FaceTime" which is very hi res but only good between Apple owners and only one to one, whereas Skype is multi platform.
 
#13 ·
Cleaning Product ID Request(s)

Referring to the CCP takedown video below with Bret Voorhees (Walther): See link below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI_KfFJAqqs

Can anyone out there please tell me if you recognize the particular brand of what appears to be a foaming cleaner in the black and bronze spray bottle on the table beside Bret? The label is facing away from the camera and I'd really like to know which one he's using. The container label has a color combination very similar to Duracell batteries.

Also, does anyone know where one can purchase the larger cleaning patches he's using?

Thanks much for whatever you can share.

BTW: I directed my questions to Bret, but have yet to hear back, hence this posting.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Referring to the CCP takedown video below with Bret Voorhees (Walther) ...
The cleaner Bret is using is M-Pro 7 Foaming Gun Cleaner. I personally use this along with the pump spray version to clean the packing lube/preservative off of new guns. In fact,I just picked-up a CCP today and am using the spray version.
Contrary to what Bret said in the video, it is a cleaner only -not a cleaner & lube.

M-Pro7 Foaming Gun Cleaner 070-1066 - MPro7

As for the patches he was using, they're probably old Jaguars t-shirts I printed for him back in the day when he worked with the team? LOL
 
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#22 ·
OK, here is a question for you PHD gun designers. Why is there a hump in the connector that makes that awful snag when cycling the slide? Why is it more pronounced when the striker is cocked? The sear should be holding the striker and the safety should be free to move easily just like when the striker isn't cocked. What am I missing? Is the safety holding the striker just rearward of the sear so pressure from the striker makes it harder to bump the safety up? I'll just go on record here and say....I don't like it. M1911
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
OK, here is a question for you PHD gun designers. ...
OK, here are my findings. When the striker is fully cocked it is 57/64th's from the back of the slide to the front edge of the striker lug....that's the edge that meets the back edge of the sear....which is exactly 57/64th's from the rear of the counter plate. At that point the striker is approx. 1/8" behind the firing pin safety. As you start to rack the slide I believe the striker clears the sear first followed immediately by the firing pin safety engaging the striker face. That accomplishes two things. It prevents a premature firing of a round in the chamber and allows the breech to open sufficiently so when the firing pin safety is released the breech is open which also prevents an unintended firing of a round. At that point the slide is cocking the striker normally and everything is reset.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
I don't even have a BS, of course I have been accused of being full of it:D, but I will attempt to identify and address that question. I thought that you and I had determine the safety was in fact holding the striker at least in part based on the pressure I had to apply to depress it and allow the striker to move forward. However, just because YOU asked, and you are the head professor, I will revisit that.:D
 
#24 ·
Trying to get a design ready for a 3PM client meeting so am pretty busy at present. I like putting things off to the last minute....Actually this client keeps asking for new items to be added. The last one is a screened in porch and double sided fireplace. That changes about everything in the patio area. M1911
 
#25 ·
Trying to get a design ready for a 3PM client meeting so am pretty busy at present. I like putting things off to the last minute....Actually this client keeps asking for new items to be added. The last one is a screened in porch and double sided fireplace. That changes about everything in the patio area. M1911
Just think of all that "green" coming your way!:D

I have looked at everything and believe I might have an answer for you but need you to think about it and perhaps talk me thru a couple of tests to prove or disprove. I'm now 3 hours behind your time.
 
#33 ·
So a month ago you and JohnC didn't know much about firearm lockworks. JohnC said a while back he now new more than he ever wanted to. Kinda addictive isn't it. You two will be helping folks trouble shoot and be able to explain in accurate detail all about this pistol in the not too distant future. What you won't be able to answer is when is Walther going to fix it. :) M1911
 
#34 · (Edited by Moderator)
Worse! A month ago I didn't know much about any of the operational systems.....trigger mechanism, striker system, safeties, etc. Now, I know more than should ever have been required.....and that is something that Walther should be concerned about. How do other striker manufacturers design these same functional systems? How were original Walther pistols designed and manufactured to prevent an owner like me from having to become so knowledgeable about an individual firearm? I would love to hear the answer to your last question direct from your friend at Walther and I would love to hear Everett's response as well. After all, as Marketing Director he is a stakeholder.
 
#35 ·
I agree with chandler here. While interesting and informative to know how this gun works, I should be confident I can pick it up and it shoots reliably without feeling as a member of the design team. You may ask, "It malfunctioned, it's Walthers responsibility, send it back to them and let them fix it." Well, we have seen several examples of owners doing just that, Walther "fixed" it and upon return, more of the same problems.
I've been one of the biggest defenders of this gun since an early striker spring failure and have been fortunate with mine overall but even it finally hiccuped yesterday with a trigger reset failure. Not a gun disableing problem like some and easily cleared with a re-rack but not confidence inspiring and always leaves that little question mark in the back of your head.
Walther has a problem brewed up here and we have heard crickets from them directly. The cameo appearance of Everett with not a peep then or since about any of the mountains of info and evidence in just this forum speaks volumes about what they will do...:confused:
 
#36 ·
Well, in all fairness, I'm not sure what Everett's job description is. If he is in charge of marketing, engineering is not up his alley. He can pass the information along. I'm doing that anyway....right to the head of engineering. What I'm impressed with is the part I figured would cause problems seems to be working fine...the piston and cylinder. I'm probably going to install one on my new P99c. I have a few Chevy 327 cu in pistons still sitting around. Strap a '67 short block cylinder under there, high lift cam and it will be ready to go. M1911
 
#37 · (Edited by Moderator)
Just think....with that high performance Chevy 327 strapped on you can outdraw and shoot any attacker before they clear the holster!:D

JohnC....I know you were, and probably still are, an ardent supporter of the CCP, but that trigger reset issue was my issue in 5 out of the firt 60 rounds fired. It was not the striker spring even though that's the part Walther swapped out while replacing the locking catch roll pin that failed.

I know that Everett has more than the CCP to focus on but I have scanned a few of the other Walther forums on this site and it appears there are several models with more than 1 or 2 minor issues. I get the feeling there's a larger more pervasive issue at Walther and the CCP is a symptom of whatever that is. Time for serious consideration of 6Sigma implementation.
 
#38 ·
..It was not the striker spring even though that's the part Walther swapped out while replacing the locking catch roll pin that failed...
That was my point, they fix it but they don't fix it. Identify the problem(s). Affect a change that fixes said problems. Support us. Tell us something. Don't just throw replacement parts at it and call it fixed.
They must know. Too much info just here to say nothing. Throw us a bone at least.
And I have one of the better ones. Must be really frustrating for those with endless issues.
Come on Walther, little help here.
 
#39 ·
In looking at the pictures of the 18xxx model with the new drop safety design it appears the sharper rear edge of the safety is trying to dig into the connector and into the right, front edge of the rear assembly component. I'm probably overlooking something simple but I was wondering why when the slide is retracted does't the firing pin block immediately disconnect and stay disconnected. Why is there a gap between the rear of the connector an the right side of the rear assembly. If the safety foot was smoothly pressed upward immediately upon retraction it wouldn't drag the striker rearward with it and it wouldn't release it a moment later....the striker would simply remain in contact with the sear, the safety would remain disconnected until the slide closed again at which time the foot would drop over the lowered front arm of the connector and once again block the striker. It appears from the picture that the bottom of the safety foot certainly doesn't slide smoothly up onto the right side of the rear assembly.

What did I forget? M1911
 
#40 · (Edited)
In looking at the pictures of the 18xxx model with the new drop safety design it appears the sharper rear edge of the safety is trying to dig into the connector and into the right, front edge of the rear assembly component.
Yes they may have done the edge of it less sharp.

This seems to cure two problems with the striker block - its instability (now it cannot dislodge itself and tilt towards the striker channell) and in theory the clicking problem. While moving the slide to the rear, it will be deactivated sooner than the previous version and it should not cause the striker to be driven away from the sear (and then impact it when finally released) anymore.
 
#41 ·
I sent a detailed question regarding this to Germany today. I will be waiting to hear what the reason is for the present design and the reason for the dip between the connector and rail on the right side of the rear assembly. I may be missing something but I don't really see any reason for the safety to block the striker until the slide is fully forward. That would eliminate the disconnect click of the cocked striker but....for some reason I think I am missing something. M1911
 
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