Walther Forums banner

61 - 80 of 86 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,350 Posts
If they'd do the weather forecast first, I'd be turning the TV off after that, either going to bed or if the sun is still up, I'd change channels and watch Jack Benny re-runs.
I prefer Berle with Jimmy Nelson and his buddies.....Danny and Farfel.

I worked with Jimmy's son, Jerry, as flight instructors here in Phx in '72/'73.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Here are 3 photos taken this am using my standard version "C" magazine. Note the contact and angles.
I see what you do, mine does the same, the first 2 pics, you only have 2 rounds in the mag, and the 3rd, you only have 1 round. The majority of failure to feed come from the 1st and 2nd round in a full mag, when mag spring pressure is at its greatest. You've stated that you have problem, me either, and as I stated, i dont know if this modification to the relief portion of the mag is why I don't have failure to feed issues or not, I was originally just sharing a mod that might be helpful to others having this issue. I am just passing on what I have found to work, and without having everyones different issue in hand, to visually see why this issue is happening, all I can do is pass on what has worked for me. I know walther has done some running changes since its release, and without having any said other ccp to compare to mine, it is and will be just speculation, trying to fix, other members weapons on a forum. It's like trying to fix a car over the phone, pure speculation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,350 Posts
I am just passing on what I have found to work, and without having everyones different issue in hand, to visually see why this issue is happening, all I can do is pass on what has worked for me.

I understood that you were showing a mod you made in an attempt to correct a load/eject issue. I also have the same separation between the top and 2nd round but only when I insert the 7th round. The gap remains when the 8th round is inserted. My assumption is that the spring is sufficiently compressed with the 7th and 8th round that the rounds lay flat.....parallel to the butt plate. Even with the separation my CCP (with the "C" mag) has no load or eject issue......I just ran all 8 rounds through manually racking as quickly as possible.

I am a bit concerned with the mod you made just as 1917 expressed. It works for you and that's great but if the nose of the second round is able to project forward of the magazine failures could crop up.

My suggestion to those with the load/eject issue is to try a different magazine version or just contact Ft Smith.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,565 Posts
Just get it threaded!:eek:
Now THAT's an idea I hadn't thought of.

Maybe I need to contact the facility in Florida that Kraft used. If ANYBODY could thread my barrel, I bet they could. Next question is, can I afford it....AND will it be recorded by surveillance cameras. Could probably send a copy of the recording to 'Americas Funniest Videos'. Winnings on Americas Funniest Videos could pay for my thread job. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,444 Posts
While I got you all here, does anybody know the specs of a ppk recoil spring? Length, ID and OD.
We do have a Member here who posts all manner of useful information.
MG Mike. Look in the PP section and be sure to look where no one ever goes....the FAQ section up top. 1917

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/faq-pp-tp/17726-comparing-pp-recoil-springs-32-380-a.html

Here, save you the trouble....nearly all of these sections have a FAQ section that seem invisible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
While I got you all here, does anybody know the specs of a ppk recoil spring? Length, ID and OD.
We do have a Member here who posts all manner of useful information.
MG Mike. Look in the PP section and be sure to look where no one ever goes....the FAQ section up top. 1917

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/faq-pp-tp/17726-comparing-pp-recoil-springs-32-380-a.html

Here, save you the trouble....nearly all of these sections have a FAQ section that seem invisible.
Wow! Thank you very much. That was almost too easy, but I'll take it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,444 Posts
I know walther has done some running changes since its release, and without having any said other ccp to compare to mine, it is and will be just speculation, trying to fix, other members weapons on a forum. It's like trying to fix a car over the phone, pure speculation.
Which is why good photos are of such benefit. There is nothing like a pistol in hand... I could sort out many a P22 issue, pistol in hand. On the net...whole nother story, beginning with the fact that some people don't understand their firearm to begin with nor are able to describe the problem clearly.

On the P22 a cartridge can really rear up its nose...but it rarely matters because the breech rail which is square with the rear of the chamber will hit the top edge of the rim first....add the drag of the underside of the mag lips to the top of the rim and the first thing the breech rail does is shove the nose down and into the feed ramp where it slides up and into the chamber. I've tried to pull up on a round so it will misfeed and cause a stoppage....won't work. The nose of the round is immediately shoved down. Now, could you have a worn or damaged mag that didn't hold the round properly, provide enough drag on the rim....absolutely...which is why you need more than one or two mags to solve these kinds of things.

Now on some pistols it is pretty essential that the rear of the round slide up the face of the breech at a slant so that it can work its way under the extractor...it all squares up as the round slides into the chamber.

Shoot, I'll drag out files and emery paper and my old brick anytime I think something needs fixing on a shootin' iron. But, if it is one I plan on using for self defense....it better run right straight out of the box or its going back to the mother ship.

I don't think the amount of work done to the front of the mag is of any significance regarding creating a problem....it might in fact benefit function. To test this someone, even MEHO, would have to have issues that he can clearly identify and then determine that the mag modification solved them. That is what a lot of discussion at this forum is about. Nothing personal to any of it. Hobby to me. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
201 Posts
I see what meho was talking about with the angle of the top round and the space between the top round and the second. The mags on my PPS m2 does the same thing

1BB4189F-2D41-4364-80A6-D93715E7C84A_1556405245645.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
So after another satisfying range day, 150 more rounds through my CCP and 150 through my vp9sk, putting the CCP to about 2050 rounds down range and about 1500 through the hk, both performed flawlessly, by the way, anyway, while cleaning i decided to give one more picture as to why I relieved more material out of the front of the magazine. As you can see, the front of the magizine used to protrude above the bottom of the feed ramp, now its below the feed ramp. No way for the casing to hit the front of the magazine.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
I apologize for the long post up front but I wanted to detail the following information as unambiguously as possible in trying to get to the bottom of this problem with the CCP.

My girlfriend of 21 years bought a CCP for three main reasons. As her CCW, the slide is easy to rack and she absolutely loves the way it fits her hand perfectly. She also likes the idea that it has a safety on it.

But, she has had FTF and FTE problems since day one. I have a Q5 which has never had either of these issues, plus I have personally fired close to 100 rounds with the CCP and have the same problems so it is definitely not a limp wristing situation causing these issues.

We are going to the range tomorrow and will try running some Winchester 147 T&D rounds as suggested by another user on this forum that claimed the 147’s totally solved his problem with the same issues.

I worry that if she ever ends up in a situation where she has to use it to defend herself she could run into the same problem which could end up being deadly even thought she knows how to clear it if you have the time.

The only thing I have done to the gun is to polish the feed ramp to a high gloss finish in the hopes that it might help. We will know tomorrow at the range.

All this said, I spent several hours going over every aspect of the CCP and its design. Although I have no problem with the basic design concept of the fixed barrel aspect I have discovered what I think ‘could’ be a design problem with the magazines.

Here is what I found and I am only speculating here but after much hand testing and carefully viewing every aspect I could see these are my results with eight rounds in the magazine and the slide locked in the reward position and the magazine inserted.

1. The top round in the magazine, with the other rounds pushing it up against the curved top of the magazine sides is aimed upward at approximately ten degrees in relation to the rest of the rounds beneath it and appears to be ready to go into the breach. All is well at this point.

2. Now, holding onto the slide and pulling it back to release the slide lock and slowly letting it come forward just enough to begin to touch the top round the first thing you notice is that as it catches the very top of the back of the round it immediately tips the round downward against the next round which now puts the top round aiming approximately ten degrees downward effectively aiming the round at the very base of the feed ramp.

[I have tested the same above action with my Q5 magazines. The PPQ mags have all rounds flush against each other so the above action can not happen and all rounds come off the magazine absolutely straight and slide beautifully right into the breach.]

3. Still holding onto the slide as the front of the round touches the very base of the feed ramp I can now actually let go of the slide and the round will be stuck there jammed against the very bottom of the feed ramp. At that point the action is locked in that position.

I can tap the back of the slide and the round will jump into the breach and will do the same thing if I release the slide fully after pulling it back to release the slide lock as expected but it still feels like the round hits way to low on the feed ramp

I have photos of all of the above conditions.

I would ask that any CCP owner reading this do the above test and see if you don’t get the same results and report back with your results.

Also take a look at a loaded CCP magazine and notice how the rounds beneath the top round are aimed in a downward direction in relation to the top round. You will also notice that there is a gap of about 2~3 millimeters between the front end of the casing of the top round and the second round. Holding the magazine in one hand press down on the front of the top round and you will see that it rotates downward against the second round.

This is what happens the moment that the slide contacts the top of the top round to move it forward to chamber it. It rotates the front of it downward instead of forward causing situation I described above when it will actually lock the slide open with the round holding it so if released gently.

Also, if you look at the front of the magazine you will notice the cutout semi-round notch at the top. When the top round is pushed forward by the slide the tip of the bullet actually comes in contact with that curved notch before it touches the feed ramp and the front edge of the cashing can actually catch behind the notch in the magazine causing a hangup of the round against the magazine.

Possibly conclusion:

I surmise that this could be a problem with the magazine follower holding all rounds below the top round at the wrong downward angle causing/allowing the top round to tip downward into the gap between the top round and the round below it when the slide begins to move it forward.

Looking forward to hearing from any other CCP owner who has tried the above and found the same situation occurring.

If everyone finds the same situation occurring then Walther needs to know and possibly come up with a solution to it.. Could this be the source of the problems of FTF and FTE that the CCP seems to have experienced since day one.

Max Taylor

P.S. I have double checked all of the above actions against my Q5 which is probably the same as all other PPQ’s and their magazines and none of the above situations exist. All rounds on the Q5 slide straight out of the magazine and directly into the chamber. Could be the reasons that FTF situations rarely if ever occur with a PPQ.
1917-1911M Stated: Is this what a CCP mag looks like? Is this the way the rounds sit? Wildbill45 noted way back how stiff the mag springs were. Are they still stiff? I don't see how the nose of this round could be shoved down unless there is a lot of drag on the rim of the cartridge…

Yes, that is correct.

This evening I did some more testing on the magazine.

First I disassembled it and made sure that all parts and the spring are inserted correctly.

With no rounds in the magazine the follower face is perfectly parallel with the top of the magazine.

I can insert up to four rounds into the magazine without any gap between the top and second round. They are still parallel to each other. The fact that rounds are slightly larger diameter at the back exacerbates the problem. Interesting that this unparalleled issue does not rear its head with the PPQ double stack.

As soon as the fifth round is inserted there begins to be a slight gap between the nose of the top two rounds. As each successive round in inserted that gap gets bigger until the eight rounds is inserted when the gap is the greatest at almost 3mm.

The larger the gap the greater the top round takes a nose dive as it is shoved forward because there is nothing under it to prevent the nose dive.

My first guess is that if the magazine only ever had four rounds in it everything would be fine. That I will test at the range next time out.

Also noticed that both magazines have a “D”. Maybe the “E” versions have some modification or sorts but that is unknow.

chandler5566: Thanks for the CCP problems link.

Right now I am almost thinking that I might even try bending the follower such that the nose end of the rounds sits about a 1~2mm higher in the magazine. I think this could eliminate the gap between the top two rounds thereby aligning the top round directly forward into the feed ramp for all rounds.

I would only try this with one magazine so I always have the original to go back to if that doesn’t work.

Thanks again to all of you who have chimed in on this thread. There has to be something that can be done to solve this mystery.

Everything about the CCP is great overall even thought it does get hot after a while but in a self defense situation it starts off cold and eight rounds would not matter.

Walther's reputation is on the line with this gun. Either their R&D section will take the necessary steps to run it through the ringer until they find the problem or one of us will. I think it will be one of us first though.

Max
~~~
I sent my CCP back to Walther for the exact reasons you describe and it was supposedly checked and was sent back to me. The first time I took it out it happened again, I’ve still never shot more than 2 rounds without it jamming. When I called Walther about it whoever I had on the phone just told me that they shot 300 rounds through it without a problem so I’m pretty disappointed. I have tried different brands of ammo also. I bought this gun brand new because my son loves is Walther and I thought I was buying a quality product.😞
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,350 Posts
I sent my CCP back to Walther for the exact reasons you describe and it was supposedly checked and was sent back to me. The first time I took it out it happened again, I’ve still never shot more than 2 rounds without it jamming. When I called Walther about it whoever I had on the phone just told me that they shot 300 rounds through it without a problem so I’m pretty disappointed. I have tried different brands of ammo also. I bought this gun brand new because my son loves is Walther and I thought I was buying a quality product.😞
It's difficult to determine the details of your situation. Don't know who, you or your son, is firing the pistol and if it's your son how old he is and whether this is his first time shooting or first time shooting the CCP? Next, it would be helpful to know which ammo, brand and bullet weight, you used in both failure situations.

Have you asked another shooter or a range officer to test fire it? Assuming Walther in fact fired 300 rounds without failure the issue sounds more like "limp wristing". (loose grip). I suggest you take the CCP plus the original ammo and perhaps a box of American Eagle 124gr ammo to your range and ask a range officer to fire it.
 
61 - 80 of 86 Posts
Top