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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I searched for this, and didn't find a thread - I'm sure there is one, but I just didn't find it.

What condition do you carry your AS in? Is there anyone who carries in anti-stress mode? I for one don't see how you could argue against it if you're well trained. The Walthers have an inertial drop safety that prevents the striker from hitting the bullet should the weapon be dropped if I'm remembering correctly. If the user is well trained the weapon shouldn't be that much different than a 1911 model pistol.

I realize the "safety" feature is the double action pull, but if your weapon is secured with the trigger covered is there any reason not to carry it as such?

Could anyone see this technology complimented by a Glock-like trigger safety?

Would anyone buy a pistol with such a combination of safety features? An inertial drop safety coupled with an AS style trigger guarded by a trigger safety?

I'm definitely a fan of the P99, but I'm wondering if the technology could be taken further. The trigger safety would limit any falling of the striker due to being dropped on the ground. Does the firing pin block rest there even when the pistol is in the holster or is it a drop only firing block?

I think the AS is the closest thing I've seen to a single action, striker fired weapon I've seen -- I'd just like to see the next step.
 

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Here's my personal opinion:

Carrying the P99 is AS mode (full forward) is somewhat dangerous. Carrying in SA mode (halfway back) is incredibly dangerous. The pull is just too light, and in SA mode we're talking very light and very very short.

Of -course- if you don't touch the trigger, it wont fire. But in the land of fear/anger/adrenalyne, it won't take much touching to fire SA mode. ;)

I dont find the DA pull to be overly difficult to use as a first shot... not if you train with it, anyway. Though i love the AS/SA pulls, I've forced myself to be accurate with DA.

In addition, I don't really care for the Glock/XD trigger safety with the tab in the middle. I don't like the way it feel on my finger, and honestly i don't actually follow the logic behind it. I either put my finger all the way on the trigger, or index it on the slide... i don't halfway touch the trigger, so the safety tab seems pointless to me.

I know some carry in AS mode, and I hope I'm not coming off as insulting - it's just not for me. :)

thorn
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't see how carrying in AS could be any less safe than carrying a 1911. I know carrying the 1911 in cocked and locked is very safe, so I'm not interested in any arguments to that degree.

I'm speaking more to the trigger pull. I know plenty of folks who carry a 1911 with a four pound - 4.5lb pull. What's the difference? The only thing I could think different would be sweeping your thumb to disengage the external safety. However, when it comes time to pull and the adrenaline is flowing -- is it any different?
 

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Hi, at times I carry the P-99 AS, a PPS or a 1911.

I carry the P-99 de-cocked in the DA mode.

The 1911 is carried in the cocked and locked mode.

The PPS is so new to me, I am not comfortable carrying it with a round in the chamber or cocked.

The reason for the modes of carry are, P-99, long moderately hard trigger pull, don't feel that in the heat of battle I would accidently pull the trigger. When I re-holster, I don't have as much of a chance of a AD with the longer DA trigger pull.

When carrying the 1911, with out a proper grip, the trigger can not be pulled, whether the safety is on or off. I feel safer carrying my 1911 cocked and locked than the P-99. If you always put you thumb safety on when going to re-holster, you can not have a AD even if you leave your finger on the trigger. I don't recommend this technique.

On my PPS, I am just not comfortable with such a short trigger pull when carrying. I am sure as I get more familiar with this type of trigger I will learn to trust the trigger safety that it has.

With all three guns, it is not so much of AD while carrying, but the chance of AD while re-holstering is where my concerns are. When you have a holster that covers the trigger, if the gun is in the holster, it is pretty hard to pull the trigger.

As far as what I like in triggers, here is my list;

  1. 1911 - hard to beat 4# SA short travel, short reset trigger for accuracy and feel.
  2. P99 Single Action mode, like you said the closest Striker fired trigger you'll find to a 1911.
  3. PPS It is moving the striker, it takes travel and pull.
  4. P-99 DA mode same as above, only more.

Steve
 

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I'm speaking more to the trigger pull. I know plenty of folks who carry a 1911 with a four pound - 4.5lb pull. What's the difference? The only thing I could think different would be sweeping your thumb to disengage the external safety. However, when it comes time to pull and the adrenaline is flowing -- is it any different?
Here's the difference, in my head anyway. FWIW, i've never shot a 1911 so my knowledge of the gun is only based on lots of reading.

But - with the 1911, the 4.5 lbs pull is only available after the thumb safety comes off. But on the P99, the SA pull is available at any time. This includes reholstering.

Now, AFAIK, 1911 owners practice their draw with a thumb sweep, so that the trigger is hot the moment you finish raising the weapon... so in essence, once you're on target it's the same result. But in my head, it seems different.

Perhaps a personal paranoia?

thorn
 

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The PWL holster will allow the P99 to be brought to AS condition upon unholstering/drawing the weapon if you choose to do so.

I wasn't much impressed with this holster and PWL sent their lawyers after me with a nastygram to make me remove it from my site. I spoke with Earl about it and to keep the peace it just wasn't worth the headache to keep the review up.

I sent the holster back to PWL for a refund. Nice leather, well made, but did not consistently do what it advertised.

I've practiced enough with the P99 to be able to place a fairly accurate DA shot at 25 yards from a duty holster. The follow up SA is even better. I would not carry the P99 in the AS condition, but each to his own.
 

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I carry with one in the chamber, decocked. The pistol is a P99 .40 AS. I have never felt uncomfortable or thought it unsafe to carry this way. When I carried the same pistol in a triple retention holster for work I carried it the same way.
 

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I don't see how carrying in AS could be any less safe than carrying a 1911. I know carrying the 1911 in cocked and locked is very safe, so I'm not interested in any arguments to that degree.

I'm speaking more to the trigger pull. I know plenty of folks who carry a 1911 with a four pound - 4.5lb pull. What's the difference? The only thing I could think different would be sweeping your thumb to disengage the external safety. However, when it comes time to pull and the adrenaline is flowing -- is it any different?
Easy. I don't know anyone who carries a 1911 cocked and unlocked. Besides the thumb safety most 1911s have a grip safety as well. In my opinion it would much easier than you might think to have your P99 go off as you were drawing from the holster if it was in SA mode. I think you would be much more likely to have a negligent discharge with the P99 carried in SA than with a 1911 carried cocked and locked.
 

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I carry with one in the chamber, decocked. The pistol is a P99 .40 AS. I have never felt uncomfortable or thought it unsafe to carry this way. When I carried the same pistol in a triple retention holster for work I carried it the same way.
Ditto except I'm using a 9mm. I don't use a retention holster either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Easy. I don't know anyone who carries a 1911 cocked and unlocked. Besides the thumb safety most 1911s have a grip safety as well. In my opinion it would much easier than you might think to have your P99 go off as you were drawing from the holster if it was in SA mode. I think you would be much more likely to have a negligent discharge with the P99 carried in SA than with a 1911 carried cocked and locked.
This is an excellent point. What about an XD-like function? That trigger is a true single action trigger with a trigger safety / grip / safety and firing pin block. I feel that the XD is far inferior to what Walther produces, but what about a combination of grip safety / grip safety / firing pin block coupled with the long first pull and the subsequent short pulls?

Ah, here's a for-instance:

Grip safety depressed
Trigger safety depressed
Long single action trigger pull removes pin block
Subsequent shots are short single action as long as the trigger safety stays depressed
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I carry with one in the chamber, decocked. The pistol is a P99 .40 AS. I have never felt uncomfortable or thought it unsafe to carry this way. When I carried the same pistol in a triple retention holster for work I carried it the same way.
I don't guess I'm arguing that the double action could be unsafe in anyway. I'm merely trying to produce a first moderately light SA shot with a subsequent SA shot that is closer to the initial pull than the long hard DA without compromising the safety of the weapon carrier or those around them.
 

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Shish,
You guys going back and forth with different conditions of carry and trigger modes are making me dizzy. This is one reason that I have found one type of pistol/trigger system that I like and I stick with it. I don't want to get into a situation were I get confused with whether or not I am in DA/SA mode, SA mode or SA mode with thumb safety to manipulate....find one that you like and stick with it, IMHO.

PS. I like the AS model the way it is....
 

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Shish,
You guys going back and forth with different conditions of carry and trigger modes are making me dizzy. This is one reason that I have found one type of pistol/trigger system that I like and I stick with it. I don't want to get into a situation were I get confused with whether or not I am in DA/SA mode, SA mode or SA mode with thumb safety to manipulate....find one that you like and stick with it, IMHO.

PS. I like the AS model the way it is....
That's why I wipe the safety off on all of my pistols. Whether they actually have a safety or not.:)

I too like the AS the way it is carried in DA mode for the first shot.
 

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Shish,
You guys going back and forth with different conditions of carry and trigger modes are making me dizzy. This is one reason that I have found one type of pistol/trigger system that I like and I stick with it. I don't want to get into a situation were I get confused with whether or not I am in DA/SA mode, SA mode or SA mode with thumb safety to manipulate....find one that you like and stick with it, IMHO.

PS. I like the AS model the way it is....
Me too. I have tried them, but ultimately gotten rid of them all and kept only P99 AS. It's always carried the same way, no guessing or wondering.
 

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IMHO, the P99 is THE best weapon to carry and use as a personal defense weapon because of its different modes.

I personally carry my P99 (gen1) 10+1 in DA at all times. The pull of DA is not that bad, and if your in a situation where your going to use you gun, the adversary is most likely to be within 10 feet of you.

At that distance, its a point-and-shoot deal... no cocking, levers, other things to remember... release, point, shoot is all there is to it.

For me, the thumbstrap on my holster is my 'mental safety', and my finger is my 'physical safety'. The strap on the holster never is released until I need the weapon, and my finger is never on the trigger until its time to send it.

Any other safeties are completely useless, IMHO.
 
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