[Que]

Does anyone have any experience with this one? B&T bought the Steyr TMP design and have come out with an updated version. I once had an HK SP89 that I found to be pretty much worthless, but this one seems to be very shootable, especially without all of the bling. I've been eye-balling one and any experiences with this gun will help me to either take the plunge or forget about it.

 

[153]

Tread carefully, if an HK was unsatisfactory, at least they are a quality maker.

Never heard of this one (not surprising here in the Golden Brown State) but other Steyr knock offs have been pretty crummy!

Someone here must have shot one!!!

Good Luck!

 

[Que]

The HK was unsatisfactory only in the design being too large and clumsy to be shot as a pistol and too small to be shot as a carbine. This TP-9 gets around that to a great degree offerning a much lighter more compact package. It's around half the weight of a Desert Eagle. Being Swiss made and having a Steyr design I'm not worried about quality. I'd just like to hear from someone who has actually shot it. The only thing that I've heard is that the recoil is negligible.

Q

 

[MGMike]

I have one of the original versions made by Steyr, the SPP, which is semi-automatic only. There is another, selective-fire...I forget the acronym.

They are an interesting design, borrowed heavily from the Steyr-Hahn of 1911, having a rotating barrel. But it makes sense only as a close-quarters burst-fire weapon. As a semi-auto pistol, my opinion is that it's too big and awkward to be useful; I could do more damage, and a lot faster, with my Polish Radom.

M

 

[Que]

Hey MGMike, thanks for the comments. I think the Steyr was the TPM. I'd be looking more at the TP-9 as a fun toy to shoot and not a whole lot more. I have buddies who will only own guns that they would bet their life on, but I also own guns that may fall short of that which I only own for fun shooting. My Desert Eagle is a prime example. With these guns I'm interested in the shooting experience that they provide as well as unique features that they may have.

Q

 

[MGMike]

Without a shoulder stock the SPP is not even fun to shoot. It's just an ill-balanced counterintuitive pig with a typical Steyr machine gun trigger pull.

Many of my guns are study guns, NOT guns I would bet my life on or even find pleasurable or exciting to shoot. The SPP falls in that category.

It's an extremely interesting plastic gun, but that's about it.

M

 

[Que]

Without a shoulder stock the SPP is not even fun to shoot. It's just an ill-balanced counterintuitive pig with a typical Steyr machine gun trigger pull.

Did you try the single point sling?

My undersanding is that the new version cleaned up the trigger a good bit and has a better balance than the Steyr.

I also just ran across a review in the new Guns & Ammo.

Q

 

[Que]

Just in case anyone has any interest in the TP-9 I'll tell you what I've found out. The SPP trigger is long as MGMike has described because the full auto version has a two stage trigger rather than a selector switch which, I'm assuming, is a full squeeze for full auto. When Steyr created the SPP semi-auto, the predecessor to the TP-9, they just removed one of the stages leaving the gun with a long pull for semi-auto. I had heard that B&T had refined the trigger some but a recent Guns & Ammo review mentions a long pull breaking at 9.5 pounds, which is the original description for the SPP. On the other hand I have seen other opinions that the trigger has been improved from the SPP. The G&A review found the gun to shoot best using a single point sling resulting in groups at 25 yards averaging between 1.2 and 1.8 inches. Long trigger pull or not, that is just fine. All references I've seen indcate that reliability is excellent with the gun not at all ammo picky. There seems to have been some improvements made over the original SPP.

A buddy of mine who who has shot the gun describes it as "quite fun" and has said that it would be more than a plinker and very effective with the optional shoulder stock. If I buy the gun I may go the SBR route (Form 1). While I didn't really enjoy the HK SP89 I regret buying it. Today they are going for well over ten grand, but that's for very different reasons. The way things are going with gun laws I doubt the TP-9 will be around for long.

Q

 

[MGMike]

Getting into that sling reminds of a woman trying to get into her brassiere without unhooking it first.

And as for this alleged pinpoint accuracy, I don't think so... What I think is that somebody at G&A slipped a decimal point over one digit to the left in group size, or one digit to the right in distance.

Between the abysmal balance and the even more abysmal trigger, I don't think such accuracy is possible, even with a sling. The trigger has to move in two separate directions in order to fire. It first has to pivot up to clear the drop safety abutment designed to prevent inertial release if the monster is dropped, then has to slide backward quite a ways against a strong spring to release the sear. It's makes sense as an SMG, but as a pistol, it's almost hopeless.

M

 

[Que]

Getting into that sling reminds of a woman trying to get into her brassiere without unhooking it first.

That's a good one! A guy at the shop demonstrated how the sling goes on. It didn't seem at all difficult to me. One heck of a lot better than some tactical slings that I've seen.

And as for this alleged pinpoint accuracy, I don't think so... What I think is that somebody at G&A slipped a decimal point over one digit to the left in group size, or one digit to the right in distance.

Interesting theory. Nonetheless, of the two people who I have now spoken to who have actually shot the TP-9 their results are more consistent with G&A's.

While I'm not all that enthused about the TP-9, it appears that some improvements have been made over the SPP. Whether they will be enough depends on the shooter. I will soon have a chance to shoot one so I'll see for myself.

Q

 

[Que]

Another negative with the TP-9 is that if you want a suppressor you are most likely going to be stuck buying the B&T one that I've heard is priced at $1100. Further, a friend of mine who is in the suppressor business indicates that it's going to be necessary to custom fit the gun with a suppressor. Also, if I understood him right, he wasn't exactly thrilled with the way that the proprietary one fits with a flared barrel and resulting expansion chamber. As I'm not really a suppressor guy this isn't an issue for me.

This was the same guy who has shot the TP-9 extensively and finds the gun to be a great platform to do a lot of different things. I think MGMike is right, as a handgun shot in a traditional manner it isn't going to be what someone would want, but as part of a weapons system where it can go from a handgun to a submachine gun style carbine with some quick modifications (folding stock, foregrip) and Form 1 AOW registration, it has great potential.

Q

 

[Que]

On a final note, I went back to the shop and took another look at the TP-9. What MGMike was saying about the predecessor gun's trigger (the SPP) wasn't jibbing with my impression of the trigger at all. In range reports of the TP-9 folks were describing the trigger as "Glock-like" and not at all as was being described. Today I spent a good amount of time at the shop dry firing the gun and it is indeed more "Glock-like" than not. There is the initial take-up, not a lot of it, and then a decent clean break at what I would guess to be at around six pounds, if not a little less. It certainly isn't the 9.6 of the SPP and as Guns & Ammo reported. I also noticed that the thread protector is different on the current guns than DSA and B&T's initial ad copy and in the G&A review, so I called DSA to get down to the bottom of the discrepancies.

After an intial conversation with the pleasant young lady who answered the phone I was put through to the man with the answers. It seems that the guns at the SHOT Show were very early production guns that had yet to see many of the improvements that B&T brought to the gun. The tipoff is the early two-ribbed thread protector as opposed to the current one with a single diamond cut textured band. These same early SHOT Show guns were the same ones that were sent to the gun writers including G&A. Their guns are not representative of the current production guns being sold. They are consistent with the SPP that MGMike has described. At the same time they were getting complaints/comments about the TP-9's lousy SPP trigger so B&T re-worked the trigger to where it is now. The DSA Arms guy told me that the changes to the trigger were extensive. They also changed the thread protector during this period as well.

So, the gun shown at SHOT and reviewed by gun reviewers is not at all representive in terms of trigger pull, and, the varying accounts of the trigger quality are due to the early production SPP-like guns having been improved greatly for production. While it seems not at all bright for the SHOT show guns to have been sent to reviewers, this might have happened before DSA knew that the improvements were going to be made. That's unfortunate as the misunderstanding will cause confusion and harm to sales. Of course the gun is still a very large one, but I find the balance and weight to be quite acceptable especially for a gun that holds such potential versatility.

Q

 

[Que]

Sorry, forgot the obligatory photos. Note that the gun now has a Glock style trigger.

 

[Que]

By the way, for the record, I was laughing like a madman as I was putting all of that bling on the gun. Sorta silly.

Q

 

[MGMike]

By the way, for the record, I was laughing like a madman as I was putting all of that bling on the gun. Sorta silly.

Q

It looks like it now is set up for an attached side-folding stock, rather than the SPP's detachable auxillary stock-- definitely an improvement. Also it does indeed appear that that goofy bi-directional trigger has been eliminated.

But what is "bling"?

M

 

[Que]

It looks like it now is set up for an attached side-folding stock, rather than the SPP's detachable auxillary stock-- definitely an improvement. Also it does indeed appear that that goofy bi-directional trigger has been eliminated.

But what is "bling"?

M

Yup, the fittings for the stock are there, but I suspect that it will be more than a quick attachment. No matter, once the stock is on I think that it will probably be staying on.

Bling? As in all of the flashy jewlery that some rap stars wear. I'm referring to all of the add-on stuff that I would never shoot the gun with as a pistol. I own an HK light and a Glock light (gifts) and I have never used one to shoot with. The knockoff Aimpoint is occasionally used on my AR and a few other rifles and carbines and would not be what I'd use for the TP. The new Aimpoint Micro T-1 would be my choice, or an Eotech. I'm not really a tactical kind of guy so this gun is something new for me. I shoot my battle rifles mostly stock, and pistols iron sight, so all of the add-ons are kind of fun with this one.

As to the trigger, the DS Arms rep said that the SPP trigger got a lot of complaints so it was one of the major improvements. It was a big issue. I'm still a little confused as the SHOT guns and the G&A guns appear to have the new trigger, but all that matters is that I find it (at this point without having shot the gun) to be acceptable.

By the way, thanks for raising your concerns regarding about the SPP. It got me to look into this gun more closely than I might have, and I think I made a better informed choice for it. That's the most that I've ever paid for a gun (edged out my PTR91K by a nose) and probably will be until I someday find the right HK P9S in .45, so all of the info was useful and appreciated.

Q

 

[MGMike]

If you find a P9S .45ACP at a reasonable price, don't buy it unless you also have a good supply of magazines; they don't last long before the lips spread.

M

 

[Que]

If you find a P9S .45ACP at a reasonable price, don't buy it unless you also have a good supply of magazines; they don't last long before the lips spread.

M

Is that the case with the 9mm? If the 9mm doesn't have that issue I may well go with the 9mm again. I shot a 9mm for years without a problem.

This is the one gun that I've sold that I haven't replaced yet. As time goes on it seems less important to do so despite the fact that for years it was by far my favorite gun. I think that recently adding a P7 PSP took the edge off of not having one, and that the reality of having one again may not live up to the memory of having had one.

Q

 

[MGMike]

AFAIK, only the .45 ACP mags have a congenitally short life.

M