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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am new to guns, but not the internet or mechanical things. But I bought a brand new PPK/S in 22 in Nickel last weekend. (looks awesome!) I've read about finicky ammo, so I took it home, cleaned it and ran 100 rounds of CCI mini mag through it. It worked great. I had two ejection problems.


I had a box of Federal 22 I bought to shoot at a friend's house in his gun and tried to use that on Saturday night at the local range (where I bought it). Every 3rd or 4th shot was an FTE. The shell stayed in the barrel even. It was extremely frustrating to where I had to drop the mag and cycle the slide to get it out.


Thought the ammo might be the issue.


Took it back to my friends house 70 miles away yesterday. Bought some high velocity Winchester (Super Velocity?) as Cabela's was out of mini mags. Same issues. Tried some of my friend's ammo. Same issues.


He looked at an it said that the extractor might not be hooking the shell to pull it out. We gave up on it for the day.


Called the Armor at the range when I bought it (last week). He said some 22s are very finicky on ammo (I read this) but this seems almost insane. I can't get back over there for him to look at it till Wed, but I thought I would seek opinions here.


Thoughts?
 

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First, welcome to the club. Couple of things. I’ve owned my black PPK/S for about three years now, but was close to throwing it away. Had many many failed to eject, stove pipes. I had two instances where the fired round blew out the casing resulting in the extractor and all the pieces for it being blown out. Walther fixed it for free including shipping.

Tried all kinds of ammo and the most reliable are the MiniMags or Remington Golden bullets. This is a very ammo picky gun. The extractor does not come into play on a fired round, only when manually racking the slide to unload. The force of the fired round pushes the spent case out of the chamber against the back of the slide and redirected out the gun.

If you haven’t already or even if you have, give the gun a gooood cleaning using a brass brush in the chamber. While doing so, put the gun back together leaving out the spring and of course NO AMMO. Cock the hammer. Manually rack the slide back and forth and see if you feel it rubbing or hitting and bumps. It won’t be silky smooth but it should move quite easily.

Take it back apart and drop a round in the chamber. It should drop smoothly and completely. Now turn the pistol upward and it should drop out with no help. If not keep cleaning. Do not over oil the gun. If using oil, all you need is a to get the parts wet. On mine I just put a drop or two on a Q-tip or cleaning swab and rub things down.

Hang in there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Tried all kinds of ammo and the most reliable are the MiniMags or Remington Golden bullets. This is a very ammo picky gun. The extractor does not come into play on a fired round, only when manually racking the slide to unload. The force of the fired round pushes the spent case out of the chamber against the back of the slide and redirected out the gun.

.

Thank you. That greatly helped my understanding this morning. Generally, it had no issue pulling out the shell when I racked it. (Maybe a small handful of times I had to drop the mag to do so). A bunch of snap caps came out just fine.


You have greatly helped my knowledge here, not sure why my friend was fixed on the extractor if that only operates when manually cycled. Makes sense, seems like small item to be worried it hooked the casing in an urgent situation.


Thanks!
 

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I ran 100 rounds of CCI mini mag through it. It worked great. I had two ejection problems.

Thought the ammo might be the issue.

Thoughts?
You got it. Ammo problem. If it ran fine with Mini Mags and not Federals and Winchester....ammo problem. Blowback pistol that relies on the blowback gas energy to cycle the slide including cock the hammer and blow the spent case out with enough force so that it bounces off the ejector and out of the pistol.

Short barrel pistols don't allow much time for a lot of blowback energy to be developed and the velocities on the box are out of a rifle test barrel. Not a short pistol barrel. You can see information on this including velocity and energy at Ballistics By the Inch.

Keep the chamber clean enough for a round to drop into it under gravity with a plunk, firm grip and snappy .22 ammo. 1917

My STI is faster than your old flat six too......:eek::)
 

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.22 pistols

Wildtoad is dead on in his advice. However, some .22 pistols are just downright picky. I have a Ruger SR22 which most will agree will eat any ammo. I picked it up in the depth of the .22 ammo shortage. It loved Mini Mags but nothing else. Mini Mags were scarce as hens teeth at that time.

I tried everything checking the chamber, several cleanings and slide to frame fit. All with zero improvement. Finally, I broke down and picked up an after market barrel that solved that problem. After about a year I installed the original barrel and all problems were gone. Now with the PPK/S you can't do this, but don't give up. Some pistols just need a longer break in period to function. Pick up as much Mini Mag as you can and stock up on it. Keep it clean and don't mess with alterations. After a while things should look up. Remember Walthers have a lifetime warranty so if they don't a trip back to the factory might be necessary. Also, watch your grip when shooting and make sure you are not limp wristing.

Good luck.

P.S. Check your local gun shops for ammo. It may be a dollar or so more a box, but many have it in my area. Also, making friends with them for future purchases it a good idea. The big box and internet sites may have it, but they won't call you if they get a shipment in.

Duncan
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks...I never thought of the barrel length being an issue either. I figured super velocity would have been similar. Will get some minimags and try again. Maybe a Ruger too to burn up this other ammo. 😉

Hey, 1917....do you know me? How you know my Flat6 is old? They still make them. But, yeah mine is old. Meet me at the track, I'm actually pretty good at that. 😉.
 

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So we are talking about a Umarex .22 here? Only personal experience; one of our handgun students had one; double action was beyond awful, but it worked okay.
Somewhat skeptical of the extractor being only useful in manual chamber clearing; it was my impression that the spent casing imparted enough energy to the slide to finish the stroke, and complete extraction/ejection.
Realize some pistols have no extractors at all (tip-barrel Berettas).
Are we racing 911s and Subies here? :)
Moon
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So we are talking about a Umarex .22 here? Only personal experience; one of our handgun students had one; double action was beyond awful, but it worked okay.
Somewhat skeptical of the extractor being only useful in manual chamber clearing; it was my impression that the spent casing imparted enough energy to the slide to finish the stroke, and complete extraction/ejection.
Realize some pistols have no extractors at all (tip-barrel Berettas).
Are we racing 911s and Subies here? :)
Moon

This is a brand new one stamped Ft Smith on the side.


Yup, we're talking 911s and Subies. Though on the track, I really drive a 944 (it's cheaper that way).
 

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This is a brand new one stamped Ft Smith on the side. )
what does it say on the other side? On mine, it says Fort Smith on the right side, “made in Germany” on the left.

No clue as to who stamped it. Maybe someone “didn’t get the memo” 😎
 

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Discussion Starter #10
what does it say on the other side? On mine, it says Fort Smith on the right side, “made in Germany” on the left.

No clue as to who stamped it. Maybe someone “didn’t get the memo” 😎

Mine says the same. I assumed it was made in Germany and Ft Smith is the US HQ.


I'm not clear where Umarex fits in. (New to all this).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Take it back apart and drop a round in the chamber. It should drop smoothly and completely. Now turn the pistol upward and it should drop out with no help. If not keep cleaning.

Hang in there.
You got it. Ammo problem. If it ran fine with Mini Mags and not Federals and Winchester....ammo problem.



Keep the chamber clean enough for a round to drop into it under gravity with a plunk, firm grip and snappy .22 ammo. 1917

I don't live in a place that I can fire the gun but I tested this tonight on the workbench. The Federals (which were Saturday's issue) drop right in and flop out, no worries. The Winchster almost had to be pressed in. Even then, it wouldn't seat all the way. Tipped up, it wouldn't dump out...I had to pick it out with my nail.



Interesting. Off to Walmart to see if they have Minimags. If not I can get them at the range.



I, errantly, assumed all .22LR was the same!



So much to learn.
 

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There is a separate section for this pistol up top and under the FAQ section. Old PP pistols (steel) were made by Walther and are the pistols discussed in this section. Years ago, back in the '90s I believe Umarex purchased Walther and is now the parent company. Their claim to fame was airsoft pistols. They are headquartered in Arnsberg, Germany. Umarex designs and makes the PPK/S with cast zinc components. They also make the zinc slide/frame P22 and the PK380 and CCP. The Ulm factory makes the P99, PPS and PPQ pistols. They are steel and polymer and cost more.

Many short barrel semi auto .22 pistols have ammo issues, not just the Umarex/Walther versions. These are blowback pistols which means the burning gas has to produce enough energy to shove the spent case rearward, blowing it out of the chamber, moving the mass of the slide rearward, cock the hammer, overcome friction and still have the case hit the ejector hard enough to bounce it out the ejection port. Quite a bit of work for a small round. Having a spent case be shoved back into the chamber is a classic example of short stroking of the slide. Two things usually cause this....limp wristing the pistol and ammo that simply isn't powerful enough.

You can pick up a box of CCI Mini Mags and Remington Golden Bullets and they have noticeably more recoil than Federals or Winchester. Why? Beats me and I've asked. Powder, primer....??? Those velocities you see on the box are when fired from a rifle barrel. Short barrels do not allow the same rounds to achieve full velocity/energy. The site Ballistics By The Inch documents this for a variety of ammo including .22 and in 2" to rifle barrels. A P22 is one of the test pistols and a number of popular ammo brands are tested. The sorter the barrel....the slower the projectile. So it seems ammo like CCI Mini Mags light up and rocket the ammo down the grooves very quickly. Other ammo not so much although is is probably very reliable in rifles.

Proper ammo resolves many an issue with .22 pistols. All of em. Keep the chamber clean, a round should drop in with a plunk and fall out when tilted up. A dirty chamber can stop a cartridge from fully seating resulting in a light strike. The cure is simple....clean the chamber. I also find that plated ammo doesn't foul the chamber as fast as waxed lead.

We have a beautiful track here. Barber Motor Speedway. There is also an excellent and huge motorcycle museum there. GT2 and GT3's own the stock lap times. They had me by four seconds. I needed stickier tires. I was running stock suspension and tires.....which couldn't hold the line in the turns. My engine wasn't stock though. I'd gone to Atlanta for some expensive work kicking 240 at the wheel hp up to nearly 500. What a fun car...nothing ever broke. BTW, Porsche and Subaru developed the STI engine together. Yeah, I love solo events and tracks too. Too old now with diabetes and cancer. They won't let me on the track. If you are ever through this way and have any interest in motorcycles.....the museum is a beauty with hundreds if not thousands of all makes and models of all years. 1917
 

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...I, errantly, assumed all .22LR was the same!
So much to learn.
Even the best .22 ammo tends to be less reliable in auto pistols than centerfire.

There's a couple three problems; the long, rimmed case was never meant to run in an auto when it was born in the 19th Century. Modern mag builders have become really clever at splaying the rounds to avoid excess stacking angle, (see a Smith 15-22), but it is still a challenge.
Then there is the less-than-consistent priming compound and powder charge, and finally the wax goop that lubes some rounds.
CCI Mini-mags are the very best of a bad lot. Federal bulk-pack is a less expensive alternative.
Moon
ETA- Had my only ride in a Porsche in 1966 in a little town in Westsylvania; the kid who owned it was pleased and amazed that a buddy and I knew what it was. What it was was a 911. But I'm a codger, and a 3 series Beemer wagon lets me haul stuff, and be an occasional hooligan. There are neat roads in our mountains.
M
 

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When I first bought my PPK/s I found that sticking with heavier bullet weights solved my problem.


I suspect that light weight bullets don't provide enough blow back.
 

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I own three of the PPK/s 22's. I have 10 other 22 pistols (I live in Alaska) some are for small game hunting, three for competition, one for finishing halibut, and some to keep on the ATV just for fun. Most all of my pistol are suppressed...… which means using min-mag, high velocity, and Stingers are out of the question. 22 standard ammo comes in two flavors - cheap with wax lubricant and expensive with a black finish coated lube. Your PPK/s are an all metal highly refined and 'tight' tolerance piece of machinery. It will be years before they develop any slop (if ever). Federal - nearly all is bottom of the barrel until you get into the match stuff. Winchester and Remington are not much better. They mass produce 22 fast. My PPK/s 22's love CCI pistol match and Aquila subsonics. if you have trouble with those - your next step is to decrease slide friction - here we take Flitz and by hand only polish the barrel area where the recoil spring makes contact and the rails -you don't have to do all the rails. Take a black marker and cover the rails top, bottom and inside and outside. Fire about 20 or so rounds and polish the places where the black is missing.

I am thinking the issue is not a failure to eject. It is probably a failure of the slide to come back far enough for the ejector to kick the spent case out. With a bad extractor you always have a 'train wreck' of a partially removed spent case and a fresh round stripped out of the magazine. If the slide is not coming back enough you don't get that stripped off fresh round. It's when you constantly get a fresh round stripped off and the spent case is sitting pretty in the chamber - here we worry about that ejector.

Most semi-auto pistols need 300-400 rounds to break in. My experience with PPK/s in 380 auto are they are ready fresh out of the box. The new ones coming out of Ft Smith - I have 3 or 4 or those - the ones I have fired all want a break in period. I'll get two or three mags of ball going fine and then a jam.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I took it by the range where I bought it and the armorer took it into his secret lab and looked it over.

He then came out and took it to one of the lanes with a box of Aguilar and a box of CCI. In 10 minutes he then blasted the whole box through the neck of a B27 target and left a tiny black spot the size of the narrow side of one of those minimags boxes where paper had been. 🙂

Said it likes minimags so buy that. Also suggested tapping the magazine to make the cartridges line up nice and feed well. And keep the magazine loaded to break in the spring a little.

Now I'm comforted.
 

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Flat', be apprised that .22 autoloaders just can't wait to break your heart...;)
Moon
 
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Just one other comment that was covered but not in BOLD -

This comes from a New Beretta 21a Bobcat and learning.

Watch your grip - Hang on with a tight hold - Limp Wristing sounds like a wimpy thing to happen but it does - You can get lazy real quick -

All the 22LR comments are spot on -

I get tow mags and my Bobcat Fails to cycle - I have Hoppes close by and a Pipe cleaner. -

My Beretta mdl 71 is also sensitive to Limp Wristing - Daughter has issues I don't. - It is well broken in 50 years plus
 

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So much to learn.
That's it! ;-)

There are no miracles.
If the gun is fully operational, has normal springs and polished friction surfaces, then the problem is in the barrel. More precisely in the cross sectional area of ​​the threaded part.
Try to compare the groove profile with the original Walther .22.

For reliable automation, some Walther .22 pistols used barrels with a “tight” bore. Its diameter was (I do not remember exactly) about 0.1 mm smaller than normal .22.
This slightly increases the pressure and gives an increased recoil impulce.
The current, "advanced-efficient" managers could well decide that this is an unnecessary complication of production and put a barrel with a usual rifle profile there.
Or the barrel was replaced later ...
 
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