[sniper350]

I was looking for a ported barrel for my P-99, so the muzzle blast would be diverted away from my Laser sight mounted under the slide,forward of the trigger guard. I saw that Barsto precision sold what they called a Semi-drop in barrel for the Walther P-99 and for a fee would port the ( extended) barrel.

I ordered the barrel....but there was a 3 week delay receiving the barrel because apparantly the shop closes down to attend "shows".

Upon finally getting the barrel in hand.... I noticed it was very rough looking in its finish---tool marks were visible all over the barrel ( this was a 100% Stainless Steel barrel). The fit was tight, but went into the slide with no problems. I noticed some obvious design differences between this barrel and the "factory" barrel. The difference that most disturbed me was the very small feed ramp channel cut into the Barsto barrel. The factory barrel's feed ramp has a channel that that takes up the entire feed ramp---from one side to the other.

I took the P-99 to the Range to test fire it. I fired about 400 rds out of this barrel. And as expected the gun jammed continuously using Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP ammo. What was very disturbing about these jams is that they caused the gun to become useless, because the jam could not be cleared easily. What would happen is:

The bullet would be forced tight against the base of the Barsto feed ramp and would jam in the perfectly horizontal position. You could not get the slide to grab the bullet because it was still seated 3/4 of the way in the magazine. And here is the fun part--- you can not remove the magazine with the bullet jammed that far forward in the magazine area.
To get the gun functioning---I had to hold the slide back (taking pressure off the bullet ) while trying to push the bullet down and back into the magazine. In a self defense situation, I would be dead!

I called Barsto and explained my problems and got permission to send the barrel and my slide back to them( they told me they already had a frame). THis is where the nightmare begins. They had the barrel for 6 weeks, so I called them to inquire when they expected to make repairs. I also advised them that the barrel shot a flyer out with each magazine loaded. The factory barrel could easily out perform this barrel on accuracy. I told them I would pay for any "fitting" rquired.

Each time I called I was supplied with the same BS---"they had the barrel out shooting it" If I believed this BS, they must have fired several thousand rds through it. Never would they give me a date when I could expect my Walther slide back home. All I wanted was an approx. date the barrel would be returned. After sending them a FAX one day, they called me to say they were sending the barrel back and that they could not find anything wrong with the barrel. No jams and no accuracy issue ( "Flyers") They blamed my rear sights being loose and were speachless when this "standard" excuse was met with " I use a laser sight".

The barrel was returned in the same condition I sent it. I left the barrel dirty, but I cleaned my slide well. There was no signs of brass markings on the underside of the slide indicating the gun was fired. Maybe they use nickle plated bullets for "all" their test firing??

I took the gun back to the Range.....and again the gun jammed repeatedly with the Speer Gold Dot JHP ammo. I chaulked up the barrel as a total loss in my mind.......and then went to try and fix the problem myself.

I used a Dremel tool and grinded ( slow speed) the feed ramp out to match the factory feed ramp exactly. Polished up my work, and went back to the range. The gun now feeds flawlessly all ammo including the Gold Dot JHP's. Not a single jam to report shooting 400 JHP's through the barrel.

I sent a FAX to the owner of Barsto explaining the problem and the "needed" fix to make the barrel usable for self defense.  NO REPLY at all from Barsto---as expected.

The accuracy issue won't be fixed until I can get a qualified gunsmith to fit the barrel to the slide better.

Anyone considering buying from Barsto--their semi drop-in barrel for the P-99 better take note that the above mentioned ammo would not feed without jamming---- in the barrel they sold me.

I would never deal with this company again.


JF

 

[cigarman]

Sorry to hear of your problems.  If you do a search you will see that I purchased a 9mm Bar-Sto Barrel for my .40 P99 and requested a drop-in.  I recieved an unfinished barrel, probably meant for a gunsmith to fit to a target pistol.  It would not "drop in" at all--it was not roughly machined, but not tapered at all and without finishng to the lock portion of it.

I called them and spoke to one of the ladies and then one of the guys.  I sent that barrel back and they fitted it to a pistol that belonged to one of the guys there.  I received it back in about 2 weeks, N/C for the work.

I paid for the shipping back to them, but considering they indicated that sometimes fittting is required, I thought that fair.

Overall, they were very professional, helpful, acknowledged the problem and fixed it promptly.

The barrel operates perfectly.

maybe you posting here will prompt some other response from them.

EDIT: BTW, I also have a Barsto 357 SIG barrel. I just looked at them in comparison to the .40 barrels on my two .40 P99 pistols. Both have narrow feedramps as compared to the factory barrels, but again, they feed perfectly.

 

[freddyboomboom]

A Semi-Drop-In barrel needs to be fitted by a gunsmith.

That's what is meant by "semi".

 

[sniper350]

Cigarman,
I am glad to hear things worked out better for you.
I would be interested to know if you shoot JHP's from that 40 barrel from Barsto......and how many you have shot?? I would be very careful using that barrel for self defense in the configuration that it comes from Barsto.

I too paid for all shipping back and forth.......money was never the issue here.


Freedyboomboom,
I understand the technical wording here and that's why I sent the barrel back to Barsto to be fitted or the feed ramp "fixed" so it would accept JHP's. It was their lack of concern in the 6 weeks they had my slide & and the barrel that bothered me. Remember they made NO changes to the barrel whatsoever ! I had to alter the barrel so that it would reliably feed the Gold Dot 180 gr. hollow point bullets. I expected the Barsto company to do this modification ( for a fee of course).....they did nothing. There is a reason the Walther company provides for a "wide" feed ramp on their barrels.......reliabilty when you need it most!

Thanks guys for your interest

JF

 

[cigarman]

You are welcome. Believe me I have been on my share of the wrong end on deals.

My pistols are both .40 and I have 9mm and 357 SIG Barsto Barrels. As I said, both of them have narrow ramp slots. No problem with either one with any type of bullets. They are not .40 as yours are though and that could constitute a different type of problem.

I bought the 357 barrel used from another member and personally fired about 50 rounds through it. I fired about 250 rounds out of the 9mm barrel with barious bullet types and at various speeds. No problems with either.

BTW, I used 9mm mags (two 10 round factory and a 15 round factory) to feed the 9mm.

Again, good luck.

 

[sniper350]

Cigarman,
Thanks for the info. Your absolutely right the 40 cal bullet with it slightly wider nose may be the reason it catches on the Barsto narrow channel feed ramp.

If I recall correctly......the 357 Sig has a narrow nose as well.

I just wanted to place this post incase some law enforcement guys ( that are required to carry approved Hollow Points ) aren't caught with their pants down using the Barsto replacement barrel with that narrow feed ramp. Unless you shoot lots of Hollow points, like I do, you may never catch the problem until that one time you are in a fight for your life.

I belive you should train like you fight...........so I go the extra mile and buy the same ammo I use for self defense for practice sessions. Ammoman.com sells Speer Gold Dot ammo practically at the same price as the cheaper "foriegn" junk. About $20 more for a Thousand round case.

Thanks for your input............it has been helpful ! and gives members a view of the other side of the coin.

JF

 

[alex]

my conclusion: this company is a POS. the product is shit and they lie and bullshit customers. thanks for the warning

 

[BreakerDave]

Quote[/b] (alex @ April 24 2005,10:41)]my conclusion: this company is a POS...

Bar-Sto produces high end barrels that are routinely used for competition pistols. They are well regarded and have a strong following. The fact that someone had some trouble with a barrel not running well as a "Drop-In" part is not surprising. I had a Drop-In extended slide stop bring a 1911 to a stop. I took it to my gunsmith and learned Murphy's Law on Drop-In parts: "Drop-In parts aren't."  Such parts usually require minor fitting.

The fact that a customer had to wait three weeks for his custom order to be filled is no big deal. Bar-Sto has other orders to fill ahead of a new order as well as other commitments as a business.  Like it or not, for many companies, part of being in the gun business is attending shows.  "-How dare they market and sell their product!"

While it is disappointing to hear about the customer service issues, every story has three sides- There's your side, their side, and what really happened. I wouldn't write off a highly regarded company like Bar-Sto on the basis of one or two complaints. If you did, you could write off the entire gun industry.

 

[sniper350]

Breakerdave

"The fact that a customer had to wait three weeks for his custom order to be filled is no big deal. Bar-Sto has other orders to fill ahead of a new order as well as other commitments as a business. Like it or not, for many companies, part of being in the gun business is attending shows. "-How dare they market and sell their product!" "

Well I did not want to go off on a tangent and explain the order delay....... but you seem to feel that was no big deal.

The boring details: When I placed my order ( it was considered " a custom order" because of the porting of the barrel) I was required to give them my credit card info. at the time of ordering. I was then given a delivery date---this company demands a signature upon delivery from UPS, so you have to make arrangements to be available to sign for the barrel. I didn't care if they told me the barrel would arrive 6 months later , as long as it shipped when they promised.

Two weeks beyond the original shipping date.......no barrel.
I then get a call from Barsto asking for my credit card info. AGAIN. I told the girl that info. had to be supplied at the time I placed the order--their rules! What made me nervious is apparantly they had misplaced my credit card info.---no big deal to give it to them again, but I have to wonder what happened to that original information I supplied to them! Is this a proper way to treat a customer's method of payment?

And yes, I wonder about a company that shuts down completely to attend a show. I have salesmen to "market and sell my product".......I would never survive shutting down my production line to attend a "sales show". But to each his own I guess.
It just surprised me at how small their operation must be.......and therefore it should be easier for them to keep track of their order information.

Even after calling them 4 times on my dime, to find out when I could expect the barrel to be fixed.....I was never rude or made any demands ( that's probably why they stalled me for 6 weeks). I told them I was not trying to rush them, only that I needed an approximate time I could expect my slide returned. It belonged to my competition gun and I was wondering how many matches I might miss until this mess was resolved. I was promised at one point it would be shipped in time for me to attend a match I had coming up. But you guessed it......that time came and went--no barrel or slide. When I called to find out what happened, the same employee ( name I will withhold) just said "give us your number and we will call you when we know something". Phrase sound familiar. Well two more weeks passed and I heard nothing from Barsto.

Finally I will leave you with this..... I never demanded a refund for the barrel. With some expert work, this barrel should be able to perform up to competition grade standards. I am only upset that Barsto was not willing to do that work after keeping my slide and the barrel for 6 weeks..
I corrected the jamming problem myself and polished the entire barrel to a mirror like finish. It truly is a thing of beauty now. I will get a qualified Gunsmith to fine tune the barrel to my Walther slide and just maybe it will be able to out shoot my factory barrel ( something it can't do presently).

Let's be straight -I never asked anyone to "write off" anyone. I just wanted to post about a "potential" problem with this barrel feeding Hollow points. But now I guess, answering your post I aired out more dirty laundary then I had intended--- sorry.

And "that's what really happened"

JF

 

[BreakerDave]

Quote[/b] (sniper350 @ April 25 2005,1:22)]Let's be straight -I never asked anyone to "write off" anyone. I just wanted to post about a "potential" problem with this barrel feeding Hollow points. But now I guess, answering your post I aired out more dirty laundary then I had intended--- sorry.

Sniper350, I didn't say you asked anyone to write off the company.  My previous post was in response to Alex's caustic post.  If people followed his logic they'd have to write off that company and every other one that disappointed several individuals with access to the Internet.  That is why I quoted his post and not yours...

I appreciate that you are reporting the facts as you perceive them.  I have no doubt that someone at a shop like Bar-Sto could drop the ball.  I'm sure you are familiar with the expression that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  If an individual made a mistake (something that can and does happen) it can be an inconvenience.  Often it will not be caught until a critical deadline is missed.  

Just a quick example:  I worked with a company and its bookkeeper missed a deadline.  She missed a payment deadline which violated terms of an agreement.  The penalty in the contract was a substantial cash penalty.  She was subsequently fired.  Now the company wasn't a bad company that routinely avoided its obligations.  It wasn't that the company didn't have the funds it needed to operate.  It was that one person was getting run ragged and then missed a critical deadline and no one realized it until the damage was done.

You might be surprised to learn that most of the custom pistol shops are not huge operations.  They don't have a lot of personnel to send out for promotions and when they send someone out they need to know he knows what he's talking about (something you don't always find in salespeople).  The people that run the shop and do the work often wear many hats.  These people do certain things better than others.  It's unfortunate that someone spaced your order.  I have no doubt it was frustrating waiting to get your order straightened out.  However, there are generally things going on that you are not privy to.  

I'm not saying that I know what was going on at Bar-Sto in regards to your order, but I'm saying that you don't know their side and that leads me to believe you can't know what really happened.  That is not to imply that Bar-Sto did not fail to meet your expectations.  It is clear they did.  I have no problem with you posting your experience / disappointment.  

I do think that some people (not necessarily you) have unreasonable expectations and make unwarranted conclusions in regards to the nature or character of a company based on singular events.  -I had to deal with customer service at S&W about missing accessories from a brand new P99.  The first time I called, the service person wanted to charge me for the parts and shipping.  I thought that was the wrong answer so I called back later that day and spoke to someone else who realized it was a warranty issue and sent the parts for free.  Is S&W bad at customer service because of the first call?  Is it great because they rectified the problem with the second call?  Or do you put it in perspective and say it has little value in determining how S&W is as a company?  Given that Bar-Sto has worked to make a good product and earn a great reputation, your experience seems to be out of the norm.

 

[Navy87Guy]

Quote[/b] ]The barrel was returned in the same condition I sent it. I left the barrel dirty, but I cleaned my slide well. There was no signs of brass markings on the underside of the slide indicating the gun was fired. Maybe they use nickle plated bullets for "all" their test firing??

I guess this is the telling part to me...it sounds like they got your slide and barrel, left it sitting around for a few weeks, then shipped it back to you with "No Problem" stamped on the package.

I'm appalled at the lack of understanding in the business world about customer relations. Let's face it...all it would have taken in this case is an email or phone call to say, "Look, we're really backed up. It's going to be another 3 weeks until we get to your gun". Failing that, the owner should have responded to your fax with a simple"I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience...that's not our standard. Blah, blah, blah." Instead, the silence is equal to consent that it's a valid practice...which turns off a lot of people.

Yes, there will always be those who are impatient and don't understand why they aren't the Number 1 priority for any business. But when a customer is patient and understanding -- and STILL gets blown off -- that's indicative of a generally poor business practice. Right or wrong, today's market is all about reputation and the Internet has made that even more important. I don't think they stop to consider how many current or potential customers can be affected by one very negative experience.

I appreciate the heads-up. While I may not discount transactions with Barsto all together, your experience will certainly make me think twice. At least I'd be going in with my eyes open!

Jim

 

[p-99quality]

sniper,you and navy 87 are absolutely right.it pisses me off how you were handled (and its not my barrel)by barsto.they took your money, you had a problem and they did nothing to help you after the sale.fortunately there are other companies out here,if you are willing to have fitting done like you said previuosly.
word of mouth stops a sale just like it makes one
-1 for barsto
Bad,Bad,Bad
thanks for keeping others from making a costly mistake

 

[Hal8000]

Got to admit, I have my reservations after reading this thread. However, I’m not one to fancy after market items for my firearms anyway… I like them the way they were made… Who knows a Walther better than Walther?

 

[sniper350]

Navy87Guy,

"guess this is the telling part to me...it sounds like they got your slide and barrel, left it sitting around for a few weeks, then shipped it back to you with "No Problem" stamped on the package."

I strongly suspected the same thing you have written, but can not say with 100% certainty---so I did not post that.
You are absolutely correct when you implied that if they were backed up with work all they had to say to me.............
We can't work on your barrel now, it may be 6 months before we can get to it, we will give you the option of a refund and we will send your slide back to you immeadiately OR you can wait.

I would have asked them to send both the barrel and slide back to me..........and I would get it taken care of at another Gunsmith. I would have walked away a happy person. Nothing bothers me more than a company treating me like a morron by telling me what I felt were obvious "miss truths" and then wasting 6 weeks of my time.

BreakerDave,
I appreciate your post as it adds balance to this discussion along with what Cigarman had to say. I realize there is always two sides to every story.

My main concern here was not one of poor customer service, but the safety factor of the jamming barrel I was sold. I hope my barrel was the only barrel sold that would jam shooting Speer JHP's in the 40 cal version?
But if not, I felt I needed to alert the good people here to be cautious.

I won't deal with Barsto again because of the way I was treated or not treated.......but that doesn't mean that they don't make good after market barrels-generally.

JF

 

[IrvIII]

To All,

I will not get into a long drawn out story. I will give the guy that we did take to long. I shot the TOP END yes the top end only. He did not and would not send in the complete firearm. I shot the top end on my firearm using my magazines and it worked flawlessly. I do not know what else we could have done

You cannot function a firearm with just the top end when our lower worked fine??? I am sorry he did not get satisfaction but we can only work with what we have. I always shoot everything. I fit 200 to 250 firearms a year and have been doing this for almost 18 years. I would be a fool to not shoot them. So I cannot say what his problem is . I still would look at the COMPLETE FIREARM AND HIS MAGS FOR NO COST but after reading the post I am sure this is not an option. To the guy who says we are SH__ I take offence at that and that should tell you what kind of a person he is anyway. We are a small company. 7 employees so we take this personal. I have trained and shot for over 25 years . Have built more and installed more barrels in police pistols that I can remember. Why would you for a carry gun get an extended and ported barrel for your CARRY gun. Not me ever! No department would allow that As far as I know. Lots of issues here that are out of our control. I will be available to anyone who would like to talk about this with the whole truth and not half the facts.

Irving O. Stone III
DBA Bar- Sto Precision
760-367-2747 Mon- Thur 6 to 4

 

[cigarman]

The other day I sent an e-mail to Barsto with the url from this thread; the reason for the response you see here. I am not taking sides, but was surprised at the apparent poor service that you got sniper, after all of the positive comments I had gotten from others when I inquired about Barsto before i bought mine.

This gentleman was the person who fitted and test-fired my barrel with his pistol at their factory.

Let's not start a flamewar, but maybe this is a segue for you to get your problem resolved.

Let me know if I can help.

 

[sniper350]

IrvIII,
Isn't it strange that you chose to address this problem to this forum and not to me personnally. You are now willing to talk to everyone about the problem, but apparently not to the person that has the problem? You had many weeks to contact me to talk about the FAX that I sent you, but you ignored it completely.

Let's be straight....check my posts carefully....I was NOT the one who made that "name calling" comment> I don't operate that way. You can not seem to keep these posts straight..... and are implying to this forum that I made those comments and therefore---no further help will be considered by you.

Your comments about a carry gun and departmental policies and ported barrels are immaterial to this problem. The barrel you sold me was not safe, IMHO to use for home defense--period. Maybe you market your ported barrels for plinking tin cans only.... if so, you should say so. Funny, how after I made the alterations to the feed ramp ( exactly matching a Walther .40 barrel) the gun NOW works flawlessly shooting Speer Gold Dot JHP's---same frame---same magazines---same slide and same Ammo! I can supply your company with photo's of the alteration. Glock and many other companies offer their Semi Auto pistols with a "ported" barrel option--- why is yours dangerous to carry?

I agree, let's keep the facts straight....I have e-mails I can produce to back up everything I have said. I was NEVER asked to send in the frame & magazine with my slide and barrel. Your employee asked that I send him the slide and barrel ONLY! It must be a standard practice with your company to ommit the frame, because even another member said he was asked to send the slide ONLY when he needed a barrel "fitted". So for you to imply I "would not" send you my entire gun is........how do I put this nicely--wrong !

I just wanted a safe, accurate, ported barrel Walther P-99 and would have done anything to get that. I even waited 6 long weeks, placed 4 phone calls and one FAX and paid shipping both ways- without making any complaints......that should tell you something about me, sir!

Finally, it was not and is NOT my intention in getting into a pissing match with you over this problem.....I will get it resolved myself............ but since you are here maybe you can explain to the good folks why your feed ramp on the .40 cal semi-drop in barrel was designed with such a narrow feed channel......departing severely from the Walther design. There are many East Coast Gunsmiths waiting to hear that explanation---if you care to give it?

CIGARMAN,
Even you can see through this " he wouldn't send us the gun routine" because it was you that told us that you were also told to send them your slide that they had a frame they would use to fit the barrel. True or not???

I am done...........

JF

 

[cigarman]

Sniper,

You are correct.  When my barrel was not right they offered to fit it to the pistol to which they had access, and it worked.  What I did not mention is that my two pistols, although both .40 P99, are of different vintage.  The barrel fits the Walther USA slide, but not the Interarms import--the barrel diameter is not correct.  I use the barrel on one but not the other for that reason.

The fitting of the barrel to his pistol did not work for you.  The fact that others have barrels with the narrow ramp that work and yours does not, simply means that more fitting is necessary for your barrel-pistol combination, not that their ramp design is flawed. So while are correct that the porting is not germaine to the situation, neither is your comment about the ramp--that is their design and the expertise you pay for.

As was commented on here semi-drop in usually isn't.

You are also correct that Irv should work this out with you, my intent was not to bring this to an open war, but to help in the resolution.

He acknowledged that it took too long for the fix and on that point you were correct.

But I also believe that he test fired it as he said he did.  I believe mine was test fired, but there was no residue or other indication of the testing.

I would hope that this would be made right, I'm not sure how.  I have always been in service occupations and while the customer may not always be right, they should be treated as such.  A reputation takes years to build and a few words can destroy it.

On the other hand I also understand how pride in one's business can eaily be seen as arrogance and anger.

The unfortunate thing is that e-mail and electronic communication are poor methods to solve a problem.

I hope that you can both get this resolved to your mutual satisfaction, my friend.

 

[BreakerDave]

Gentlemen-

Let's try to keep this civil…  Sniper350, posted his disappointment with his Bar-Sto barrel and experience with their customer service.  I believe Cigarman went out of his way by contacting IrvIII from Bar-Sto to help get a useful dialogue started.  IrvIII was considerate enough to state his case.  It is fine for people to express their positions.  However, I sense this is heading in the direction of a flame war.  It will not be useful to start attacking each other.  If you guys are going to have a dialogue you need to have some respect for one another and a willingness to listen to each other.

Frequently, email and forum posts get in the way of arriving at a solution because the individuals invovled are conscious of their audience and seize on tangent issues, misunderstandings, or errors in sentence construction to attempt to win a dispute.  Instead of getting rigid and trying to win an argument, take advantage of the opportunity to fix the problem. There appears to be an offer on the table by Bar-Sto to look over Sniper350’s entire gun with its mags for no cost.  That sounds like a pretty good offer to me.  I suggest that both IrvIII and Sniper350 discuss this outside the forum via the phone.  When exchanging written notes, you're talking to someone and that's different than talking with someone.  A real, live conversation with some immediate back and forth may help you two get around the apparent resentment and allow you to reach an understanding.

I hope you are both able to resolve the matter.

 

[cigarman]

BreakerDave,

I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing is achieved by further exchanges here. I'm a moderator on another board and I would close this thread at this point and hope that cool heads will prevail.

This does not mean that we are deserting you Sniper. It means we want this to get brought to some kind of solution.

Come on Sniper and Irv, talk. One of you has got to make the effort here.