[OM44]

Anyone know of a gunsmith that specializes in PPK or PPK/S?

My PPK/S-1 has turned into a "jam-a-matic." I've about had it with the little
mouse gun. As bad as it was when I first got it, now after 1300 rounds, it is
worse.

Who do you recommend that might be able to fix it?

Thanks!

 

[gyrene]

Contact Smith & Wesson. My experience with their service has been excellent.

 

[153]

You didn't say exactly the nature of your Walther's problem, but if none of the springs have been replaced after that many rounds your problem may lie there.

The recoil spring - the one round the barrel, can "die" and that can cause all manner of malfunctions.

 

[denfoote]

Here's two.

Cylinder and Slide.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/


Earl's Repair Service.

http://www.waltherusa.net/

 

[OM44]

PPKS-1

I guess I shhould have mentioned the problems.

I am getting two different types of jams, depending on which recoil spring is
in the gun. When using the original factory spring, I get failures to feed,
where the slide stops a bit less than 1/2 inch out of battery. All that is
require to clear this jam is to tap the rear of the slide and force it to close.

The other jam happens when I have the Wolfe 24 pound recoil spring in place.
In this case, the gun jams with the cartridge lying up against the feed ramp.
The nose of the bullet is just into the chamber and the base of the cartridge
appears to be still in the magazine.

It happens with all 4 magazines. I have the two original plus two new Mecgar
mags.

Thanks for the suggestions. I doubt S&W will help because I use reloads,
although it happens with factory Fiocchi ammuniton as well.

The gun must fire my reloads well, because I believe a person must carry
what one practices with, and I can't afford to practice with $1.00 a round
ammunition.

Talk to y'all later!

 

[Deputy]

OM44: I hate to say it, but I think you have pinpointed your problem without sending it to S&W. I don't think there's anything wrong with the pistol. I think it is the ammo you are using. If you aren't aware of it, the Walther pocket pistols are pretty "ammo sensitive". They were originally designed to function with factory FMJ ammo. That's why so many guys use that type of ammo to practice with, as well as to carry. I would suggest you install the original springs, lightly lube the internal mechanism, put a small amount of RIG +P or white lithium grease on the slide rails, and buy some factory loaded Winchester white box generic ammo. That ammo seems to be the most reliable stuff for the PPK and PPK/S. If, after doing all that, it still malfunctions, then send it in to S&W.

While I agree that one should ideally practice with what one carries, most folks practice and break in their guns with factory FMJ. After it has fired at least one box of 50 FMJ factory loads without a malfunction, then you can start experimenting with different hollowpoint or frangible loads.

Dep



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[uncut]

OM44
You may try some extra power springs for the mags when you use your wolf #24 before doing anything else

 

[banddr2]

Ditto what they say, the Wolff spring is too powerful for you magazine springs. When you have the factory spring in I suspect your problem may be the extractor, and I am guessing you have an Interarms PPK/s or a S&W, my Interarms PPK had this problem. The extractor is not allowing the rim of the bullet to slip under it, which means it needs to be removed, cleaned and polished where it engages the rim of the case. Then again, I am only guessing without being able to physically see your ppk/s.

Cylinder and Slide will do a fabulous job, but there will be a long wait, I would think any local smith could remove the extractor and polish it. If it is a new gun and a warrenty issue, call S&W, but try factory ammo first, maybe your reloads are not hot enough?

 

[153]

I would start by buying all new springs.

Standard wieght recoil, hammer, magazine and extractor springs. It's a careful balancing act to get everything working together, if one spring its out -malufunctions will occur. Its not always possible to tell which spring it is either, because after so many rounds it may be one or more.

After replacing springs, lube it up as Dep suggests and let 'em fly with some factory FMC. If you are reloading, load to factory FMC levels and watch things like your cartridges OAL.

That should get it back to "normal".

 

[Deputy]

One more thing I forgot...and I'm pretty sure you already know this...but you should NOT be using "all lead" bullets in the pocket Walthers. The pocket autos need a nice smooth slippery surface to feed ammo properly. Lead bullets have way too much drag and are guaranteed to jam up. I know they're cheaper, but they are a no-no in this type of pistol.

Dep



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[Ogie]

The Wolff spring is too powerful as someone stated.

Also, I wouldn't use grease on the slide. It may retard the cycling of your pistol. I used BreakFree CLP for years. Now I use Weapon Shield. It's good stuff!

Most of the time people continue to use the FMJ bullets due to their extra penetration when shooting a smaller caliber pistol.

 

[Deputy]

I use grease in ALL my pistols (even the plastric frame guns) and have for years. I'm not saying use a grease gun and pump it full of POUNDS of grease. Just a very small dab of it in both slide rails is al that's needed. Oil is for lubrication of moving parts like triggers and hammers. Grease in small amounts is used for FRICTION parts where part against part is present. And oil wears off with use. Grease remains present. A high quality grease like RIG +P is made specifically for gun use. Although white lithium grease was used for years before it's introduction. Unless you live in the Arctic Circle, a small touch of grease will NOT slow up slide movement.

A little history on white lithium grese for guns...AMT used to recommend white lithium grease be used on their slides because of the type of stainless steel used in their guns. Back then they used identical stainless in both the slide and frame. Without the grease you would get "galling" of the stainless steel and malfunctions would result. The white lithium grease prevented this "galling" problem. The new stainless guns either use two differewnt types of stainless, use different material for the frame (alminum), or harden the frame rails to prevent galling.

Galling definition: A condition whereby excessive friction between high spots results in localized welding with subsequent splitting and a further roughening of rubbing surfaces of one or both of two mating parts.

BTW...Glock uses grease in their PLASTIC guns. If you ever take a new one apart you will see a coppery-looking substance in the slide rails and at certain areas of the action.

http://glockmeister.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/59/products_id/13

As a matter of fact even after multiple cleanings of a Glock where the coppery stuff is gone, a Glock STILL gets greased at certain strategic locations.

Dep



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[Ogie]

I use grease in ALL my pistols (even the plastric frame guns) and have for years. I'm not saying use a grease gun and pump it full of POUNDS of grease. Just a very small dab of it in both slide rails is al that's needed. Oil is for lubrication of moving parts like triggers and hammers. Grease in small amounts is used for FRICTION parts where part against part is present. And oil wears off with use. Grease remains present. A high quality grease like RIG +P is made specifically for gun use. Although white lithium grease was used for years before it's introduction. Unless you live in the Arctic Circle, a small touch of grease will NOT slow up slide movement.

A little history on white lithium grese for guns...AMT used to recommend white lithium grease be used on their slides because of the type of stainless steel used in their guns. Back then they used identical stainless in both the slide and frame. Without the grease you would get "galling" of the stainless steel and malfunctions would result. The white lithium grease prevented this "galling" problem. The new stainless guns either use two differewnt types of stainless, use different material for the frame (alminum), or harden the frame rails to prevent galling.

Galling definition: A condition whereby excessive friction between high spots results in localized welding with subsequent splitting and a further roughening of rubbing surfaces of one or both of two mating parts.

BTW...Glock uses grease in their PLASTIC guns. If you ever take a new one apart you will see a coppery-looking substance in the slide rails and at certain areas of the action.

http://glockmeister.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/59/products_id/13

As a matter of fact even after multiple cleanings of a Glock where the coppery stuff is gone, a Glock STILL gets greased at certain strategic locations.

Dep

The general consensus seems to be that you should use grease for heavy range use and oil for carry use. This is according to Bruce Gray who knows something about guns. I have started using Weapon Shield which has an ABF technology. I am assuming that it is similar to RIG grease in it's properties but with a lighter viscosity. For more on it check this website and explanation: http://www.steelshieldtech.com/page2.htm

Unless Walther has changed, I don't see any reference to grease in the Walther owner's manual for my P99. Perhaps it's different for the PPK?

 

[Deputy]

I have no idea who Bruce Gray is. But Clint McKee at Fulton Armory says this: "Oil is bad for semi's. The robust cycling of the action throws the oil all over the place. Grease is better in almost every situation". I agree with him 100%. He goes on..."Tetra oil, or any oil, for that matter, should only be used as a primary lubricant in captivated assemblies, or in assemblies that do not have robust movement. For example, crankcases in engines & motors are sealed, as oil is designed fly around inside them, and thusly lubricate all the moving parts contained within them. Of course, if the crankcase were not sealed, the oil would go everywhere, and drip upon every manner of thing, except that which it was designed to lubricate. The same thing applies to gas guns and recoil operated firearms.

So, use Tetra Oil in any "captivated" assembly (springs, detents, plungers, gears, screws, levers, slides, etc., but only when enclosed in a housing), or in applications where inertial energy will not bleed out its effectiveness. For areas not enclosed, use Tetra Grease, only."

http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Now I am not all that crazy about Tetra Grease any more because I have noticed that it tends to "seperate". They even tell you in the instructions on the side of the tube to squeeze the tube before opening to mix the formula up. That shouldn't need to happen.
So I use either RIG or white lithium grease. Neither one tends to break down.
Everyone has their favorite gunk to put on their gun. I would caution against believeing the internet hype. Often times the stuff in your garage is just as good or better than the expensive stuff labelled as "gun this" or "firearm that".

No, Walther doesn't say to grease the P99. Common sense DOES say that metal-to-metal parts should be greased. And Walther DOES recommend Hoppe's #9 to clean their P99. I have already discovered that is a bad idea on the Walther/S&W PPK with the plastic grips. What's good for one gun isn't necessarily good for all guns.

Dep



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[Ogie]

And I never heard of Clint McKee. I will side with Bruce Gray on this one. I used BreakFree CLP for years and never had a problem. The military has used BreakFree for years with no problem. I think they might know what they are doing too.

http://www.grayguns.com/

If grease was so great I would would think that Walther would endorse it for their products. I would think that the Walther engineers have their fair share of common sense.

I have used the Weapon Shield now for over a month. It cleans better than BreakFree and it also seems to lubricate better. The maker of Weapon Shield is George Fennell, the originator of FP-10. I don't consider his views as "Internet hype."

To each their own I guess.

 

[OM44]

Small Boat Anchor

Thanks for all the replies.

This last session at the range, I had three different types of ammunition. Two
were my reloads with different bullet weights and one was a box of Fiocchi
95 gr. round nose.

The little gun jammed the same way with all of them. I didn't realize when I
purchased it that the thing would be so ammunition sensitive.

So, I'll take your advise and purchase a box of Winchester white box. If it
works OK, I won't have to send it back to S&W.

However, I probably won't own the little thing much longer. If a gun won't
shoot my reloads, it won't be my gun. I guess it is time to visit my favorite
gun store in Las Cruces.

In the mean time, I'm a .45 man again!

TTYL.

 

[Deputy]

Thanks for all the replies.

This last session at the range, I had three different types of ammunition. Two
were my reloads with different bullet weights and one was a box of Fiocchi
95 gr. round nose.

The little gun jammed the same way with all of them. I didn't realize when I
purchased it that the thing would be so ammunition sensitive.

So, I'll take your advise and purchase a box of Winchester white box. If it
works OK, I won't have to send it back to S&W.

However, I probably won't own the little thing much longer. If a gun won't
shoot my reloads, it won't be my gun. I guess it is time to visit my favorite
gun store in Las Cruces.

In the mean time, I'm a .45 man again!

TTYL.

OM: Dang it man we gotta get together for some range time!!! I would hate to see you sell the PPK/S until it is thoroughly wrung out. When I get my grips for my PPK I'll gladly let you try it out. So far it's been 100% with FMJ ammo.



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[Deputy]

And I never heard of Clint McKee. I will side with Bruce Gray on this one. I used BreakFree CLP for years and never had a problem. The military has used BreakFree for years with no problem. I think they might know what they are doing too.

http://www.grayguns.com/

If grease was so great I would would think that Walther would endorse it for their products. I would think that the Walther engineers have their fair share of common sense.

I have used the Weapon Shield now for over a month. It cleans better than BreakFree and it also seems to lubricate better. The maker of Weapon Shield is George Fennell, the originator of FP-10. I don't consider his views as "Internet hype."

To each their own I guess.

Just a side note...but the CLP Break Free that is sold to civilians is NOT the same formula sold to the military. I tried FP-10. Didn't seem any better than any other lube. Stunk like hell though. Glock doesn't endorse grease for their guns but it comes from the factory with it on them. Perhaps gun makers figure gun owners have a modicum of common sense.



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[Ogie]

Just a side note...but the CLP Break Free that is sold to civilians is NOT the same formula sold to the military. I tried FP-10. Didn't seem any better than any other lube. Stunk like hell though. Glock doesn't endorse grease for their guns but it comes from the factory with it on them. Perhaps gun makers figure gun owners have a modicum of common sense.

Really? The Break-Free that the military uses is not the same? Can you prove that claim? Where is the little linky you like to provide with most of your posts to attempt to prove your point?

Are you kidding about gun makers crediting you with common sense? How about all the warnings in your owner's manual like "keep your fingers out of the trigger guard and off the trigger when loading." Just look at all the warnings in red in your owner's manual. And you are going to tell me that they figure you to have common sense? Or was that just your smarmy attempt at humor?

 

[Deputy]

No, I meant YOU didn't have any

Here ya go doubting Thomas. Read it and weep:

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/clpinformation.msnw



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