[Soybomb]

So I have to ask what the purpose of the anti-stress trigger most of us love is. Why not just a traditional double action like you'd find on a sig or s&w where the trigger moves back when the gun is cocked? Is AS intended to allow you to carry cocked and have a light trigger with alot of take up like a glock? Is it an extra safety mechanism to help prevent an ND before decocking? To my understanding when a sig is cocked at least one safety mechanism is bypassed and they are no longer completely safe even with the light trigger pull aside. Is the p99 safe to carry cocked with the trigger forward? So I'm curious, what was walther's intention of the long single action first pull?

 

[Jake Starr]

Could it be to keep in step with all other preceding models? The PP, PPK, P-38, P-5 and P-88 all had this configuration. Yet German Police testing for all pistols are rather stringent and I cannot see how that even a P99 in the cocked, SA mode could pass muster if it could not withstand the drop test. Some holsters were even designed to be able to pre-cock the pistol while still holstered. While most would not carry the P99 in the cocked & locked or Condition One position, from my understanding it is perfectly safe to do so.

The DOA or QA models came out to mimic Glocks and were also geared to LEOs.  It is fairly idiot proof with one trigger pull. Just point and shoot. Under stress it can be hazardous to have two different weight pulls. And most police and civilians, unfortunately, do not practice enough with their weapons to be truly familiar with the differences. I personally like the AS model and it is all I shoot. If I were to change one pistol I would have to change them all. I for one don't see it happening. I like my P99s, P22s and P-5 too much to change now.

 

[Soybomb]

On the other walthers the trigger didn't move back to the SA position when the gun was cocked?

 

[Hal8000]

There is no need to carry the P99 cocked (or in the SA mode). The P99 DA trigger pull is the easiest on the market to my way of thinking. I often practice with the DA out of the holster, and a SA follow up shot (a double tap)... The P99 is perfect for this kind of shooting!
The P99 is a remarkably wonderfully design piece of equipment and with the SA subsequent trigger pulls, it virtually eliminates trigger finger fatigue, allowing the shooter to fire a large number of rounds without tireing...
I think the longer take up on the first SA shot is there to help the shooter transition into the much easier SA trigger pull. Hopefully eliminating, or at least reducing an unwanted discharge. In a high stress situation, a person may not realize the pressure they are exerting on the trigger... This is the reason Glock put the "New York" trigger on their pistols for the NYPD (per the NYPD's request), so the bad guys would not get "accidentally" shot. The NY trigger being a few more pounds heavier than the normal Glock... I've never heard if this actually works...

 

[uncut]

Hi Jake... are you sure about the PP and P5
both my .22lr PP and my P5 when in SA mode have the trigger in the regular SA position.... I don't have a P38 or P88...
though you are right.... it is safe to carry the P99 in cocked position... to my understanding it was designd as a "extra" safty to have the trigger all the way forward when the P99 first gets cocked....

I too have heard of the holsters that allow you to precock the P99 while still holstered.... but does anybody know who makes those

?

 

[Soybomb]

hal: How does it deal with stress shots though unless you carry cocked?

 

[Hal8000]

Quote[/b] (Soybomb @ May 28 2006,9:50)]hal: How does it deal with stress shots though unless you carry cocked?

Being the DA is the harder trigger to pull, it automatically becomes the defacto AS trigger.
The DA being the uncocked mode...
Then the loooong SA trigger pull, after the first DA shot, is also AS...
I guess if your not in control over yourself after these first two AS shots, then "Katie bar the door"!

I too have heard of the aforementioned holster. Never seen one, but I've heard of it... Seems like it was in a Walther advertisement. Probably only available overseas...

 

[Soybomb]

Quote[/b] (Hal8000 @ May 28 2006,12:07)]

Quote[/b] (Soybomb @ May 28 2006,9:50)]hal: How does it deal with stress shots though unless you carry cocked?

Being the DA is the harder trigger to pull, it automatically becomes the defacto AS trigger.
The DA being the uncocked mode...
Then the loooong SA trigger pull, after the first DA shot, is also AS...
I guess if your not in control over yourself after these first two AS shots, then "Katie bar the door"!

I too have heard of the aforementioned holster. Never seen one, but I've heard of it... Seems like it was in a Walther advertisement. Probably only available overseas...  

Wait you mean if you decock,  and then take double action shot and then take your finger off the trigger you wind up with your 2nd shot being a long single action?

 

[Hal8000]

Yes...

From the Walther P99 FAQ:
"That is the so-called anti-stress trigger, which is designed to reduce stress-related accidental discharges. single- and double-action modes both begin with the trigger in the forward position. Squeezing the trigger slightly, when in single-action mode, will set it into the rear position. If you remove your finger, the trigger will remain in the rear position. Squeezing it further will cause the striker to fire the round in the chamber."

 

[Soybomb]

The faq is just saying you get a long trigger pull after racking even if you don't decock, at least to me.  How odd...the only time my p99 and p99c are in the forward single action position is if the gun is if the slide is cycled without the trigger depressed (ie: racked) or cycled just the 1/4" it takes to cock it.  All following shots are short single action.  The only way I can it going to a long single action after a double action shot would be if you get your finger all the way off the trigger before the slide is done cycling.  And I don't mean this condescendingly at all, but you're sure you're not mistaking the reset point for the back SA trigger position right?  Mine only get 1 long pull unless I decock. Anyone else have one that gives you both a long DA and a long SA consecutively?

These discussions get so confusing

 

[Hal8000]

Danged if your aren't right Soybomb! I was (am) confused!

I stepped out side and fired a couple of rounds to check. This frigging gun is so natural to me, that I just don't pay any attention to how it works or shoots, I just shoot it!

After the DA shot, the SA is short and ready to go fast.
After you cock it (put it SA), the first trigger pull is long. (Anti-Stress), subsequent shots are the short trigger pull...

Sorry for the confusion. You'd been better off if I'd of kept my big mouth shut!

 

[Jake Starr]

I will take my P5 and P99 out tomorrow to check and see. All I know is that the trigger reset is shorter for both when in SA mode after the pistol has been fired. Honestly I have not checked to see if the P99 once fired, if the trigger, although in SA mode, moves back to where it started in DA mode. I am making sense here? With the P5 after firing, the hammer and trigger are in SA mode.

Confusing, a bit, but interesting none the less.

 

[Soybomb]

I thought I had freak show P99's for a minute

I'm very envious of being able to go out in the backyard to shoot.  

In summary the only difference between AS and a traditional double action gun like a sig or s&w to me is that when you rack the slide or cock the gun via the hammer the trigger would normally move reward to the single action position.  On the P99 it does not.  Did walther intend that as an option for safer carry in SA mode, less change of a ND after loading before decocking, or just to be weird?

 

[Jake Starr]

You are correct on the P99. Why it does this and for what reason...I have no idea. But this feature serves me well when I shoot USPSA.

 

[Hal8000]

It's by design. It's part of the Anti-Stress system... I never notice it any more. (obviously!)

I have an older pdf file advertising the original P99 and it talks about it... I'd link you to it but I don't remember where I got it and I don't know how to up load it. Photobucket does not "do" pdf files... The only name on it is P99E... Once again, sorry!

 

[Hal8000]

It's by design. It's part of the Anti-Stress system... I never notice it any more. (obviously!)

I have an older pdf file advertising the original P99 and it talks about it... I'd link you to it but I don't remember where I got it and I don't know how to up load it. Photobucket does not "do" pdf files... The only name on it is P99E... Once again, sorry!
Ah ha... found it! Look Here...

(sorry about the double post. I guess I'm not having a good evening... I think I'll go to bed now... Good night!)

 

[Soybomb]

Quote[/b] (Hal8000 @ May 28 2006,4:29)]It's by design. It's part of the Anti-Stress system... I never notice it any more. (obviously!)

I have an older pdf file advertising the original P99 and it talks about it... I'd link you to it but I don't remember where I got it and I don't know how to up load it. Photobucket does not "do" pdf files... The only name on it is P99E... Once again, sorry!
Ah ha... found it! Look Here...

(sorry about the double post. I guess I'm not having a good evening... I think I'll go to bed now... Good night!)

Neat read, thanks! Its still not clear if they intended for it to be an option for those who wanted to carry the gun cocked, but still quite neat. I love the idea of calling the decocker a "stripping aid" on a QA...it eliminates alot of the misconceptions people have about what its for. I didn't know they made a FX training gun either!

Interesting to look how they compare to a glock. A G19 has a 5.5lb trigger with .5 inches travel. An AS in single action forward is 4.5lb trigger with .55 inches travel with what looks to be a sharper increase and break. A QA has 8.5lb over .27" travel. Almost makes me think that the AS is best for the person wanting to get a glock like trigger and the QA better for those that more concerned about a consistent trigger pull than it being glock like.