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Discussion Starter #1
Saw the new Jason Stathem/Jet Lei movie tonight called "War". Pretty much an okay movie up to the end - then it got weak real quick. Won't post any spoilers but the bad guy "Rogue" uses P99 QPQs throughout the movie. Interestingly enough, the cartridge shells (Titanium case and DPD bullets :confused: ) are 5.7x28mm. It even shows a scene where he's loading up an FN 5.7 pistol mag for supposed insertion in his P99 :rolleyes: (his gun room has at least a half dozen P99s on the wall along with some other nice looking hardware).

Lots of cool gunplay - they have a HK G36 and HK93 sniper system in it along with Beretta Cougar and the P99s. Even a COP 4 barrel pistol that the Japanese mafia chick has. :p And some naked chicks thrown in to make it the perfect guy movie (guns/girls/fast expensive cars and chase scenes).;)

Anyway, somewhat entertaining but certainly no "Transporter" - another disappointment from Jason Stathem (after his last flop "Crank" which was TERRIBLE).

James
 

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I thought Crank was a good movie.

Transporter 1 - wasn't impressed.

Transporter 2 - liked the driving scenes although the bomb removal was too far fetched.
 

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The bad guy on the airplane in Transporter II had a P99 also.......

I really thought Crank was a interesting movie..... I would watch it again though it is not on my top list.....I do like him as a actor a lot.....I think he would have made the perfect "new" James Bond also

I wanted to see War on the weekend but the time I wanted to go they only had a private screening..... so it's on the list
 

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I thought War was a great movie.

I was a little confused at first because Jet Li was using a P99 with the 9mm slide, and he wasn't using any other gun. The other guy kept finding the special 5.7mm shells at the crime scenes. Then they finally showed Jet loading the special rounds into his P99. Ahh, a Hollywood gun.
 

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It would take a special frame to fit the five-seven round in a P99. I have a PS90 and a Five Seven. The Five Seven handgun is thick - front to back wise. The round is longer than a 9mm.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
so how DID they do that for the movie
do they specifically SAY its a 5.7?:"
No they never mentioned the caliber. Only the titanium case and DPD bullets. :p

James
 

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5.7x28 coolest 22 magnum ever! Its a useless bullet, it has been shown to be a poor man stopper, and it hasn't lived up to its touted abilities. Thankfully we haven't seen walther fall for it. Although I kind of wish they would make a 45 and 357 SIG
 

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5.7x28 coolest 22 magnum ever! Its a useless bullet, it has been shown to be a poor man stopper, and it hasn't lived up to its touted abilities. Thankfully we haven't seen walther fall for it. Although I kind of wish they would make a 45 and 357 SIG
Ah, another naysayer - you should go read some of the actual data instead of just repeating what you hear from everyone else.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It could have been any caliber then, if they didn't mention it.
They showed the cartridge clearly a couple of times and I know what a 5.7x28 round looks like ;)

Jaems
 

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Ah, another naysayer - you should go read some of the actual data instead of just repeating what you hear from everyone else.
Actually I do, and I do it on a regular basis. Not to mention I have two police officers reports from two different areas of the US, having similar multi shot almost no effect incidents.

Not to mention all this information below. Shipwreck you are a very smart guy and I like your info, but I think you are way off from everything I have read.

Other than being able to perforate soft body armor, the 5.7 x 28 mm used in the FN P90, as well as the 4.6 x 30 mm fired from the HK MP7 cause wounds less incapacitating than those made by 9 mm FMJ fired from a pistol.
I have personally fired the 5.7 x 28 mm FN P-90; velocity, penetration, and tissue destruction is like a .17 Hornet--far less than we see with 75 gr TAP or 77 MK out of our M4?s. Winchester RA45T 230 gr JHP?s fired from our duty 1911?s crush more tissue and penetrate further than the 5.7 x 28 mm. Use of the 5.7 x 28 mm is a good way to ensure mission failure.
Several papers have described the incredibly poor terminal performance of projectiles fired by the FN P90.
--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: ?Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.
--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.
--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.
--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.
--Hayes C: ?Personal Defense Weapons?Answer in Search of a Question?, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.
--Roberts G: ?Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant?, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.
--Roberts G: ?Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.?, AFTE Journal. In Press.
The early 5.7 x 28 mm 23 gr FMJ bullet fired by the FN P-90 had insufficient penetration for law enforcement and military use. The current 31 gr SS-190 FMJ bullet has nearly adequate penetration, but the wound resulting from this projectile has a relatively small permanent crush cavity, as well as an insignificant temporary stretch cavity. Although the 5.7 x 28 mm penetrates soft body armor, wounding potential is at best like a .22 LR or .22 Magnum. Even 9mm NATO FMJ makes a larger wound--and we are all aware of the awe inspiring incapacitation potential of M882 ball from the M9......

It is all basic physics and physiology. Look at the surface areas in contact with tissue for 9 mm FMJ and JHP compared to 5.7 mm. When both are point forward, the 9 mm FMJ crushes more tissue than the 5.7 mm; for the short time that the 5.7 mm is at FULL yaw, it crushes a bit more tissue than the 9 mm FMJ. At no time does the 5.7 mm crush more tissue than the expanded 9 mm JHP--even when the 5.7 mm FMJ is at full yaw, an expanded 9 mm JHP crushes more tissue. The relatively small temporary cavities produced by both the 9 mm and 5.7 mm projectiles are not likely to cause significant injury to the majority of elastic structures of the body. As with any penetrating projectile, if either a 9 mm or 5.7 mm bullet is ideally placed to cause significant damage to the CNS or major cardiovascular organs, a fatal result is likely.
 

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I've seen several tests - one in a magazine article earlier this year. And, tests shown by members of various gun sights - multiple tests done different ways. I don't have the links for them, as I would have to search seperate sites. But, I am satisfied with the 2 civilian rounds - my Five Seven is my night stand gun in fact. Obviously - ya get more velocity out of the carbine.

As for 2 police shootings - I went to a police academy in the 1990s and have seen a lot of stuff too. I know that there are many police shootings with various types of ammo that give mixed results depending on various conditions involved in the shoot. Going by TWO police shootings does not substantiate anything - as I could probably find similar data with police officers who used 9mm or 45ACP or some other round, if I looked hard enough and had access to that type of stuff.

Anyway - I am satisfied with the data. I do find it curious that on all the sites where the 5.7 gets discussed, EVERY thread always breaks down to this. And, while you are not included in this - It's always the same guys who do it. And, none of them have a 5.7 themselves or have personally tried to prove their point using the ammo.

Don't mean to get on you about this - but I just see it ALL the time on so many sites.
 

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No I understand I generally follow the stuff on 10-8 forums which have most of the leading guys test rounds. Also tacticalfirearms(maybe thats the right forum) had some independent tests that weren't to promising either.

As for the 5.7 I have shot it in pretty much every varmit I could, for my buddies farm. The civilian rounds didn't achieve very good performance, and it took a higher number of rounds to take out a raccoon, or armadillo then it did the 25 and 380 ACP to say the least.

I usually don't bring it up as its not human, and I find that kind of experiment very random at best. However after way to many rounds and dozens of animals my friend sold his P90 and hasn't looked back.

I really question its effectiveness, from personal experince to the several independent tests.
 

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Well, The guys at CMMG have posted pics of them hunting with it - they even took down a deer.

Anyway, we're all welcome to our opinion.
 
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