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Discussion Starter #1
How to you take an otherwise good trigger and make it better? Apex. Added one this week and wow.

Good bye take up!

I still have just a little bit of creep after I hit the way if pulling very slowly.

Anyone know how to get rid of that?
 

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If you had no creep the gun wouldn't work...meaning you'd have a dead trigger.

The single action sear is holding the striker at the green circle.

The single action lever is holding/propping up the single action sear at the red circle. In the picture the overlap of these two surfaces within the red circle is waaaaay more than what you have in actual use....its just for illustration. But THAT's where the creep is.

The trigger bar 'nub' pushes on the single action lever at blue circle.

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Read another post suggesting that it’s the dear plunger spring. That’s already been upgraded.

I could be being overly finicky.

I can honestly say that what I am calling creep is the same before and after the Apex swap.

The Apex of course removed all the take up. But didn’t change the creep.
 

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There ya go.... Apex uses a stock Walther trigger bar and reprofiles the front tab that interfaces with the FPB. So creep isn't affected.

I only notice the creep when I'm shooting from a rest and pulling the trigger very slowly. In normal use, I never notice the creep.
 

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You may have read one or both of my posts re the striker safety spring. The first dealt with the slightly gritty feel when it was new and before installing the Apex. The second post was describing what happens when the trigger bar tab engages the horn on the safety to press inward to allow the striker to move fully forward to fire. The Apex trigger bar tab is machined to a greater angle which allows the interface to occur more gradually than the stock trigger bar tab. What happens is that the interface between trigger bar tab and safety horn create a vector force which displaces the safety front to back. That force can cause the safety spring to buckle just enough to impose a gritty feel and add to trigger creep.

One way to determine whether the striker safety adds to or is solely responsible for the creep is to start by removing the magazine (ensuring the pistol is safe, of course), cock the striker, turn the pistol upside down, use a long narrow tool to depress the striker safety inward and very slowly pull the trigger while holding the striker safety down. If the creep remains as before it's definitely in the sear block other wise it is the striker safety. My trigger has virtually no creep and breaks immediately from the wall.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Put a few hundred rounds through to today. Hum.....

I need to take the gun all down again. Lost quite a bit of accuracy. I think the Apex is better setup for speed drills and action shooting but dang....I shoot the gun with the standard Q5 trigger much more precisely.

I think there are a few things going on. First, I think my finger placement is better with the stock trigger. Second, the amount of creep I am getting is causing issues for me. I think the Apex is prounoucing the issue. The creep is definitely in the firing block. I showed the gun to my gunsmith and he gave me a few tips on resolving the issue, but he thinks he can hone the surfaces and get the gun set up very nicely. He thinks I am nuts because in his words “the trigger is good enough.” But I am not most people 🙂

I am going to take it down again this weekend. Polish a few surfaces carefully and probably put the old trigger back on it until league starts and use the Apex for action shooting when my CZ S2 gets back.

Not sure yet.
 

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Just one thing. Creep has nothing to do with the firing pin block.

Creep is that part of the trigger pull where the the trigger bar nub makes contact with the tab on the single action lever. Any additional rearward movement of the trigger to the rear will cause the single action lever (which is propping up the single action sear) to move rearward, diminishing the overlap between the two at their contact point.

By the time your at the wall, the FPB is fully compressed up into the slide.

Referring back to the picture, the creep is contained within the red circle.
 

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The creep after you hit the wall is from the sear contact (red circle) above. Try a little polishing on the contact surfaces and put some gun lube, not oil. It made a drastic improvement on mine.
The sear cage takes a little patience to disassemble and put everything back gain. Lube can be done without taking cage out or apart.
 

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It's not a good idea to start working on the contact surfaces of the single action lever and the single action sear. The angles are critical and can be flubbed up quite easily. When the amount of creep (the length or distance the trigger moves from the wall until the break) is measured in RCH's, there's very little to be gained by reworking or polishing those surfaces.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I hear ya....gonna tear it down again tomorrow and take a good look.

Btw, my slide is REALLY lose. If I shake the gun, I can actually get the slide to move rearward.

I put the stock recoil system back on it and it didn’t really make a difference.

I have a DPM system in the gun and swapped the red spring out for the white one....still didn’t make a difference.

Wondering if I need a heavier spring.
 

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The recoil spring really needs to be strong enough to provide sufficient 'slide forward' pressure when in battery.....in other words, the spring needs to keep the slide fully forward, regardless of which way the muzzle is pointed. Too light a spring can lead to the dreaded 'click, no bang' issue....or worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If I hold the gun and push it forward, I can actually force the slide to move rearward a bit...regardless of what spring I have that I use.
 

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Well, it shouldn't do that. If you're running a Sprinco rsa you might want to call and talk to Alan. If you're running the DPM rsa, try the longer spring.
 

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It does the same thing with the stock Walther recoil spring.
That sounds a little strange to me. I don't have an SF, but all my Q's have sufficient 'in battery' pressure to keep the slide stationary (in battery), no matter which way I point the muzzle, or push out.

I have encountered what your describing when using some aftermarket rsa's.

I guess the bottom line is, if it works, it works.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, it shouldn't do that. If you're running a Sprinco rsa you might want to call and talk to Alan. If you're running the DPM rsa, try the longer spring.
I honestly don’t recall. I need to remove it and see if there are any numbers on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks!

I took the gun down. Removed the extractor and firing pin block. Wanted to make sure the block area was clean and lubed. Put it all back together. I damaged the firing pin block spring in the process....ugh. So need a new one. I left the Apex in it for now.

Trigger seems a tab bit “better” but hard to say for sure.

Anyway, the slide it right and fine when the trigger is not cocked. But it’s loose when cocked.

It’s so loose that I can shake the gun out of battery.

Any thoughts on that?
 
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