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How far can you shoot the PPX reliably with careful aim?


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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys so I'm a new shooter and wanted to simply ask. I can headshot at 20ft. with little aiming effort, however when I move the target down to 30' I find it is INCREDIBLY difficult to even hit the chest area around the heart.

Is this normal or should I get my barrel checked out? Will a hot barrel cripple accuracy? I started off really well then after 100 rounds accuracy just plummeted. Can a hot barrel ruin accuracy? A range master said to me I should let my gun cool because it was too hot to touch but I didn't give it much thought to see if my following shots were suddenly more accurate.

Also, I've read people can shoot this gun reliably past 70ft. and the difficulty curve from shooting from 20ft to 30ft was very steep. Is this normal? Thanks!
 

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accuracy at 30 ft.

Umbra, bench rest your PPX at 30 ft. or more. You will be able to answer your own questions. As far as heat affecting accuracy, Yes it does. I have a Creed which is a newer PPX. I can put 5 rounds on a NRA 25 yard pistol target [which is 75 ft]. I am happy to stay on the paper with some in the black. So there may be nothing wrong with your PPX.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hey Inkie,

Many thanks for the reply. I wanted to say that the first few clips (around 50 bullets) when starting was pretty accurate at 30 feet then dropped off swiftly. I let it cool but it was still hot and then shot more and was pretty accurate (in the black area) for the first clip then veered off the to left. I was shooting far upper right to get the lower left. I wanted to say this in my post felt like it was my imagination. Does this still sound like a hot barrel?

Either way, I plan to go to a range again on Monday to test this. If it is a hot barrel, then how can I cool it more quickly other than outdoor air (lol 92⁰F here in AZ) and blowing on it with my mouth? Seems pretty futile to cool it down.

Any advice is very much appreciated! Thanks!
 

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accuracy of your PPX

Umbra, I still think you should bench rest the gun to see where the point of aim is. You than have a reference point.
If the barrel overheats the recommended course of action is to get the gun out of the sun and wait 20 mins. or so. Slow down perhaps your shooting to fast in that heat with +p or +p+ loads. You can accelerate the time by going into a cool place. HAPPY SHOOTING..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm afraid I'm not able to bench shoot at the ranges I go to, but I'll figure out a way.

Yes I can shoot fast sometimes. I train hard in all that I do. I like to headshot at a specified distance until I can do it easily then I like to up the game by learning to draw and shoot very fast to practice defensive scenarios. Sometimes I can drain 32 bullets in a just a few seconds when I am intensively practicing so that is the obvious first culprit.

Both times when my gun was too hot to even touch I was using my favorite outdoor range in 90 degree weather in the full sun for 2 hours. Even the shade was over 80 degrees.

Monday I'm going to my favorite indoor range. It's well ventilated and air conditioned. I shot 250 bullets there in 1 hour without any overheating accuracy issues. Learning is always fun!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Umbra, I still think you should bench rest the gun to see where the point of aim is. You than have a reference point.
If the barrel overheats the recommended course of action is to get the gun out of the sun and wait 20 mins. or so. Slow down perhaps your shooting to fast in that heat with +p or +p+ loads. You can accelerate the time by going into a cool place. HAPPY SHOOTING..
By the way, I'm only shooting Fiocchi 115gr 9mm FMJ's
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So I went to the range today and confirmed that when my Barrel gets a little too hot for me to touch and hold the accuracy drops far to the left where I can barely hit the target. I made it a point to shoot slower and to field strip my gun to let it cool off and I was able to shoot at 20 yards reliably. Is this a failing of the Walther PPX or do all pistols tend to do this?
 

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Next time you go to the range try longer distance first to see what happens. I would also let someone else try it to see what their results are. I can't say I have ever heard of a pistol loosing that much accuracy due to heat. It could also be fatigue setting with you.
 

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Does sound like shooters fatigue.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
It could be fatigue. 300 rounds + 2 hours careful aim gets wearisome. What made me think of this being a boiling hot barrel was that for 1.5 of the 2 hours of shooting I was perfect at 20 yards. It could be a coincidence with the fatigue that even though I kept field stripping my gun to cool it down every 50 bullets that during the last half hour the range master had told me I was not actually allowed to strip the gun there, so I let the barrel stay hot and then lo and behold only a clip or so into firing (slowly) the accuracy pulled about 6" to the left. It was consistent too because I was able to aim far right to hit the center of the target. If I was tired, it could be my stance was off. If it's not really likely that this happens then it's probably just me. I am very new but I learn fast. I've spent 1050 rounds through my PPX and I am firing well now so that makes me happy I can shoot at a LEO's level.

I told the range master why I was stripping the gun but he said that if my Walther were benched it could hit bullseyes forever and ever in 1" clusters at 100ft easily and that it was probably just me. I can accept that, except I don't have a bench. Next time I go and see the accuracy taper left again I'll call a range master to fire the gun and see if it's just me. Either way, right out of the gate I'm very happy with my Walther. This pistol is simply amazing for newbies. The trigger is so nice, so nice.
 

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No way 300 rounds in 2 hours should cause any pistol to overheat. My bet is fatigue and it happens to all of us.

Earlier you asked about distance increase and accuracy. Going from 20 feet to 30 feet is fairy trivial. Groups typically increase in size about proportionate to distance at indoor shooting range distances. So if you shoot a ten round 4 inch group at 20 feet you should expect about 6 inch group at 30 feet. For myself I have a problem seeing clearly past about 15 yards without my corrective glasses.

I don't know if you had any professional instruction or not being new but if not it could help greatly to get some one on one training from a qualified instructor. Many ranges offer such for $40 per hour or so with 1 or 2 hour session. Such an instructor could observe you shooting and then make recommendations, demonstrate, coach you, and follow up. Stance, grip, trigger press, and sight acquisition should be covered and also watching to see if you are flinching or not.

Proper grip will go a LONG way for good accuracy, speed, recoil control which can also help a lot with fatigue. When gripping your pistol try using your support hand for most of the control gripping your strong hand firmly. Use your strong hand grip with less pressure "pinching" your pistol back into your hand using front to back pressure on the pistol grip rather than a "monkey grip". Also practice isolating your trigger finger from the rest of your hand because if you tighten the other fingers as you press the trigger you will pull the pistol off target as they put pressure on the grip. I barely grip with my little finger of my strong hand when shooting. Link below goes into more details.

Five rules for quick, successive shots on target with a handgun

Trigger press can be improved at home with dry firing. I have been shooting for decades and I still dry fire at home at least a little (50 times or so) every week. I recommend that you get some snap caps for dry fire practice. IMO when at the range it is best to work on accuracy first and then increasing shooting speed over time. Of course make TRIPLE sure weapon is unloaded before dry firing. You can dry fire against a blank wall or a target you have or even the knobs on the bathroom sink like I do LOL. Object is that the front sight stays exactly on target after hammer/striker release. It may help to leave trigger pulled back for an extra half second after dry fire until you verify front sight position. Most striker fired pistols need to be racked just a little bit to reset striker. For my hammer fired pistols I just cock the hammer back. If the pistol has a flush hammer I pull the trigger just enough to be able to grab the hammer as it moves outward.

These videos may help if you have the time to check them out and they are not that long.

Glad you are really enjoying your new PPX and shooting! :cool:



 

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Discussion Starter #13
These three videos were very VERY informative. I do almost all of these practices naturally however now that I know them I can commit to them with practice knowing they are tried and true. It's also good to know how well built my PPX trigger has been when firing. So much of the second shot loss of accuracy from gun bobbing is reduced by the PPX's hammer-styled action of the trigger. I would always fire only after depressing the trigger halfway because I could see it helped my aim a lot. Rapid fire I would lose accuracy like nothing. And although I hold the gun naturally as they do in the videos, it was good to see HOW I should hold it anyway in the process of draw, fingertips, and palms while extending out to aim in one fluid motion without mashing palms first.
 
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There are to many articles, studies and research to list here what a hot barrel will do to hinder accuracy. And the explanations into it. 300 rounds doesn't sound extreme in two hours. If my math is correct 2.5 rounds per minute. But you never know.
 

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And it is "MAGAZINE'S" not "clips". Saying clips is like nails on a chalk board. I am trying to break my Dad from calling them that too. Get in the habit now of calling them mags.
 

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There are to many articles, studies and research to list here what a hot barrel will do to hinder accuracy. And the explanations into it. 300 rounds doesn't sound extreme in two hours. If my math is correct 2.5 rounds per minute. But you never know.
The accuracy of pistol barrels is not going to affected by heat in a measurable way because pistol accuracy has very little to do with the actual bore.


There is no reason any modern pistol can't produce a sub-6" group at 25 yards (75 feet) with a reasonably skilled shooter. If your gun can't do that, it is not the ammo, it is the shooter. The PPX gets decent reviews for mechanically accuracy and trigger.
 

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Hey Inkie,

Many thanks for the reply. I wanted to say that the first few clips (around 50 bullets) when starting was pretty accurate at 30 feet then dropped off swiftly.
Realizing that I will be perceived as an A-hole for pointing this out (as though I wasn't thought of as such previously), here you go:
 

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With some practice you should be able to hit 12? plates at 100 yards with that gun.

Overheating? Never had that issue even in IDPA shooting with a pistol. You must be throwing a lot of rounds.

More than likely this is fatigue or a training issue.
 
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