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And another thought...I fully agree that a great many ADs (actually ND in this case) are due to pilot error pure and simple; fingers in places they don't belong. I really like the ability to take a gun when traveling, but there are complications.
Moon
 

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Just lie the 1903 Colt I mentioned, it belonged to my Grandfather, so when I got it, it got torn down cleaned inspected, and put back together. I've been shooting her for over 20yrs, and a part finally failed. She's fixed now and back as a range regular. I also have another 1903 I had purchased, and she also got torn down at the same time and fully inspected, she's still good. Seems whoever had her before me fired it very little if any. But I'll be keeping a close eye on both when on the range.
 

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Saw one slamfire; a Colt Woodsman on our firing line. Back in the days of my military service, our MPs had a sand barrel outside their barracks for charging their 1911s.
The charging issue presents a problem when traveling with a handgun and encountering 'no-carry' states like the People's Republic of Maryland. It leaves you with the dilemma of not clearing a stored weapon while passing thru', or chancing recharging at some inconvenient spot.
What brings on a slamfire? Out of spec part has been mentioned; presume firing pin inertia is another, high primer as another possibility. It would seem that it is hard to diagnose a problem that only happens infrequently.
What do law enforcement do nowadays when entering prisons, etc? Back in revolver times, a buddy's Smith had a deep groove halfway thru' the recoil shield from endless weapons clearing entering the lockup. Is any special provision made for this, like the MP's sand barrel?
Moon
As a retired Deputy Sheriff, I can tell you that lockboxes are provided for the purpose of securing your weapon. At one institution, they actually had a corrections officer meet you with his perimeter vehicle, and your weapon was secured there before being allowed inside the fenced enclosure.
Unkei
 

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I always examine the top round when I clear the gun; most factory ammo is well crimped and sized, so that the bullet isn't driven in. It remains a possibility, tho', so it is worth examining. I also check the bullet nose for damage, as that can cause feeding trouble now or later.
I'll put this up for consideration, with the caveat that it won't work with all pistols. Some guns (1911s come to mind) are controlled feed, with the rounds slipping up under the extractor as they are chambered. On the other hand, some S&Ws (a long departed 3913 comes to mind) had a spring loaded extractor that would jump over the rim of a chambered cartridge. I always charged it by dropping a round in the chamber, easing the slide closed and allowing the extractor to snap into place.
Will this technique work safely with any other guns? Opinions?
It was never my counsel not to keep a round in the chamber when traveling, BTW. I will be a lot more careful when recharging in the future, tho' muzzle discipline has always been at the top of my list.
Moon
NOT a good procedure on a 1911A1 for the very reason you stated. They were not made to have the extractor ride over the rim of the cartridge. Dropping a cartridge into the chamber and easing the slide forward over the rim promotes premature extractor wear and possible deforming the extractor or even breaking it.
However, I see no reason for not easing the slide forward on other pistols that don't operate this way. There is no fear of jamming because you are carefully WATCHING what is going on.

I find myself in the rare position of agreeing with Ogie on this one. Perhaps hades actually has frozen over?????? :eek::eek:

In my many years of watching a huge variety of semi-auto rifles and pistols chamber rounds, I have never seen a slamfire. They are about as rare nowadays as a politician that doesn't lie. I also think there is way too much jacking of rounds into and out of the chamber for no good reason. I dunno...maybe there's some kind of sexual excitement to hearing a round being chambered? It's about as silly as "rotating magazines" so that a spring doesn't get weak. Or shooting up all your ammo every year because it "is getting old". If you are going to a location where they don't allow concealed carry, like the post office, just leave the dang gun in the car. If you are driving somewhere where you have to pass through a state that doesn't allow concealed carry and you expect to get stopped because you normally drive at 100 MPH, either DON'T BRING THE GUN, or leave it disassembled in the trunk and do your slide-jacking after you LEAVE the state. Good grief...makes me wonder what people did before they had the CCW license. Did they just stay home with all the doors locked?? :eek::rolleyes:



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I just prefer traveling with a gun if possible. I don't expect trouble, but then I pay my car insurance without any expectation of having an accident.
Scary part is that non-carry states are often real ball breakers when it comes to catching somebody with a piece. My luck is that I'd combine that accident I wasn't planning on having with a gun that I planned to have...and get busted for my trouble. I resolutely travel 5 over the speed limit, at which speed a retired state cop buddy says you'll never get a second look.

Bad crap happens to good people, what can I say. I like having a gun along, but not the notion of getting jammed up over it. What does King T say about having a PPK and not needing it, rather than the other way around?
Years ago, I had one of those VW Camper-buses; because it was a domicile as well as a vehicle, it was reputedly OK to leave a gun in it, and I did. Stashed it to such degree that it wasn't apt to be found by accident, but nice to have along. I took it thru' all the bastions of nogunland; New York, Maryland, Massistan. Guess it was legal, but now a moot point. I'm a lot older and the bus is long gone.
Moon
 

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I just prefer traveling with a gun if possible. I don't expect trouble, but then I pay my car insurance without any expectation of having an accident.
Scary part is that non-carry states are often real ball breakers when it comes to catching somebody with a piece. My luck is that I'd combine that accident I wasn't planning on having with a gun that I planned to have...and get busted for my trouble. I resolutely travel 5 over the speed limit, at which speed a retired state cop buddy says you'll never get a second look.

Bad crap happens to good people, what can I say. I like having a gun along, but not the notion of getting jammed up over it. What does King T say about having a PPK and not needing it, rather than the other way around?
Years ago, I had one of those VW Camper-buses; because it was a domicile as well as a vehicle, it was reputedly OK to leave a gun in it, and I did. Stashed it to such degree that it wasn't apt to be found by accident, but nice to have along. I took it thru' all the bastions of nogunland; New York, Maryland, Massistan. Guess it was legal, but now a moot point. I'm a lot older and the bus is long gone.
Moon
Don't drive in Silver City, NM. One mile over the speed limit and you get a ticket, guaranteed. I don't think the retired state cop will pay your fine. But a gun in the car is no worry. The car is treated as an extension of your house.



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Several years back there was an artical in one of the major gun rags where the writer took a ppk/s locked it into a vise and beat on the hameer with a wooden mallet to see if he could make the hammer block fail. The gun was loaded and pointed in a safe dirrection. After several hits where he couldn't make the gun fire. he took it out of the vise, put the grips back on and fired the gun. He then went on to tear the gun down, and found no damage to the internal workings of the gun. This was all performed with the safety off. From the drawings I've seen and work I've done on takeing them apart, I see that it would be very hard to make a Walther fail, other than pulling the trigger.
 

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That "test" was moronic. I've never heard of a gun accident that happened when the gun was locked in a vise.

M
 

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Accidental discharge Deja Vu

A very learned bit of advice from expert gunmen.... I just had the eye opening experience of having a Walther PPK/S W. Germany Interarms Pistol have an unintended discharge with the safety on and finger off the trigger. I have racked a round in the chamber on my walther a least 800 times a year as I carry the weapon from work to home and back again. Loading and unloading on each trip without any misadventure. I clean it regularly and check it for good operation and wear.
I also am SO glad I took the advice I give every new California HSC card test applicant, to point the pistol in a safe direction at all times, whether loaded or unloaded. I checked and reloaded the magazine after making sure it was clean and dirt free. I checked the action for operation. I checked the firing pin to see it was not protruding before loading the pistol. I loaded the magazine into the pistol and pulled the slide back to place a round in the chamber and had an instantaneous firing of the weapon. After finally getting the slide off after it also jammed half way back form the recoil, I found the firing pin had seared off at the back of the hammer block on the safety. I looked around for the hole and sure enough there it was 5 feet away 5 inches up from the floor and snuggly penetrating a 2x4 in my closet door frame. I don't plan on not carrying with a round in the chamber and the safety on; but I do plan on having a gunsmith do the repair and check the other parts to be sure all is right with the pistol. Should I replace the Sear often even if I don't fire the pistol alot?
 

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A very learned bit of advice from expert gunmen.... I just had the eye opening experience of having a Walther PPK/S W. Germany Interarms Pistol have an unintended discharge with the safety on and finger off the trigger. I have racked a round in the chamber on my walther a least 800 times a year as I carry the weapon from work to home and back again. Loading and unloading on each trip without any misadventure. I clean it regularly and check it for good operation and wear.
I also am SO glad I took the advice I give every new California HSC card test applicant, to point the pistol in a safe direction at all times, whether loaded or unloaded. I checked and reloaded the magazine after making sure it was clean and dirt free. I checked the action for operation. I checked the firing pin to see it was not protruding before loading the pistol. I loaded the magazine into the pistol and pulled the slide back to place a round in the chamber and had an instantaneous firing of the weapon. After finally getting the slide off after it also jammed half way back form the recoil, I found the firing pin had seared off at the back of the hammer block on the safety. I looked around for the hole and sure enough there it was 5 feet away 5 inches up from the floor and snuggly penetrating a 2x4 in my closet door frame. I don't plan on not carrying with a round in the chamber and the safety on; but I do plan on having a gunsmith do the repair and check the other parts to be sure all is right with the pistol. Should I replace the Sear often even if I don't fire the pistol alot?
Just curious, but why do you keep loading and unloading the gun?



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Yaterbob: Do you mean "seared off" or "sheared off". I'm asking because you are asking if the sear should be replaced; but the sear had nothing to do with it.

The problem is that when you rack the slide with the safety on (which is the way the instruction manual recommends, incidentally), it automatically drops the hammer when the slide closes. However, if the firing pin is broken, it is no longer captive and there may be enough croquet-ball effect from the hammer's impact on the safety to drive the front fragment of the pin forward to fire.

If the safety is off, the hammer stays cocked. The pin does not have enough inertia to fire a cartridge by itself. The advantage of having the safety on (namely, that the firing pin is locked) was negated by the breakage.

Though the gun is designed to automatically decock when the safety lever is turned down, it is a good idea to ease the hammer down by hand. This avoids having the hammer snap down uncontrolled, and reduces the associated battering of parts and the risk of breakage. Unfortunately the same "snap-down" occurs if the first round is chambered with the safety on, and there is no way to manually restrain the hammer when racking the slide. My guess is that you did it one time too many, and something gave way.

This is a good example of a dilemma between putting the safety on or leaving it off when loading. It does, of course, emphasize the wisdom of your training to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. You were lucky: the gun might well have kept firing until the magazine was empty. That's always fun indoors....

M
 

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I don't see anything here useful enough to be a stickey.

M

...except maybe the moral: You never know what's going to break, so keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
 

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...except maybe the moral: You never know what's going to break, so keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
That and the constant reminder, perhaps, that an accidental discharge is a possibility virtually anytime you handle a firearm with anything less than 100% concentration and full attention.
 

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Glad you were not hurt~

I would make Yaterbob's statement a sticky in hopes that more folks read it
and, as mentioned, plays as a reminder for gun safety.
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I actually did have an AD happen with my S&W PPK/S. It was sent to them after that for the recall work. Eventually they (S&W) simply gave me a new weapon in the place of the PPK/S.
 

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I actually did have an AD happen with my S&W PPK/S. It was sent to them after that for the recall work. Eventually they (S&W) simply gave me a new weapon in the place of the PPK/S.
I hope they gave you something interesting and useful, like a Registered Magnum or a Triple Lock...

M
 

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Saw one slamfire; a Colt Woodsman on our firing line. Back in the days of my military service, our MPs had a sand barrel outside their barracks for charging their 1911s.
The charging issue presents a problem when traveling with a handgun and encountering 'no-carry' states like the People's Republic of Maryland. It leaves you with the dilemma of not clearing a stored weapon while passing thru', or chancing recharging at some inconvenient spot.
What brings on a slamfire? Out of spec part has been mentioned; presume firing pin inertia is another, high primer as another possibility. It would seem that it is hard to diagnose a problem that only happens infrequently.
What do law enforcement do nowadays when entering prisons, etc? Back in revolver times, a buddy's Smith had a deep groove halfway thru' the recoil shield from endless weapons clearing entering the lockup. Is any special provision made for this, like the MP's sand barrel?
Moon
they take their duty weapon (loaded) out of their holster and place in a designated lock box before entering the secure area of the jail...then when their business is done they un-lock the lock box and retrieve they're loaded duty weapon and place it back into their holster...this is what we do... :)
 

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Somebody help me here, but I seem to recall that the Mauser HsC would automatically drop the slide when a loaded magazine was inserted. With a finger on the trigger, and a startle response, an AD was not uncommon.

I have not seen an HsC in years, but in the 50's and 60's they were common carry guns.
 

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Yaterbob: Do you mean "seared off" or "sheared off". I'm asking because you are asking if the sear should be replaced; but the sear had nothing to do with it.

The problem is that when you rack the slide with the safety on (which is the way the instruction manual recommends, incidentally), it automatically drops the hammer when the slide closes. However, if the firing pin is broken, it is no longer captive and there may be enough croquet-ball effect from the hammer's impact on the safety to drive the front fragment of the pin forward to fire.

If the safety is off, the hammer stays cocked. The pin does not have enough inertia to fire a cartridge by itself. The advantage of having the safety on (namely, that the firing pin is locked) was negated by the breakage.

Though the gun is designed to automatically decock when the safety lever is turned down, it is a good idea to ease the hammer down by hand. This avoids having the hammer snap down uncontrolled, and reduces the associated battering of parts and the risk of breakage. Unfortunately the same "snap-down" occurs if the first round is chambered with the safety on, and there is no way to manually restrain the hammer when racking the slide. My guess is that you did it one time too many, and something gave way.

This is a good example of a dilemma between putting the safety on or leaving it off when loading. It does, of course, emphasize the wisdom of your training to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. You were lucky: the gun might well have kept firing until the magazine was empty. That's always fun indoors....

M
MGMike: you are absolutely right. I actually learned this the hard way. I have an old Manurhin PP that was neglected and abused for a long time by its previous owner, the first thing I noticed is that it tended to mis fire with American ammo because of a poor strike. So i cycled the slide with a loaded magazine and the safety on, to test feeding from the magazine and extraction..... Thank God I was pointing it in a safe direction because I had an AD while cycling the slide (and a lot of misfires when I was pulling the trigger) and that's how I knew that I had a broken firin pin :(
Since that time I had the firin pin replaced and I always load the gun with the safety off to avoid the uncontrolled snapping of the hammer on a live round and then I put the safety on with my left hand while my right thumb is controlling the hammer.:cool:
 
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