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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm placing an ammo order to shoot my 9mm Para P5 with a 7.65Para barrel "swap in" that I purchased off GB.

I've read several forum posts that say the Fiocchi ammo is loaded significantly underpowered. Also seen a few vids where it won't cycle a Luger action.
https://www.fiocchi.com/en/category...7-65-parabellum/line/old-time-7-65-parabellum



The other ammo available is Prvi Partizan, seen a few posts on this ammo where it's stated this stuff actually cycles the action correctly, and has a much louder report compared to Fiocchi.
https://www.prvipartizan.com/handgun_ammo.php
 

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Maybe there is a third possibility. In Switzerland, the Luger pistols in 7.65mm Parabellum are popular at the ranges even nowadays. Therefore RUAG is still manufacturing the needed ammunition. Is it available in the US?

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Maybe there is a third possibility. In Switzerland, the Luger pistols in 7.65mm Parabellum are popular at the ranges even nowadays. Therefore RUAG is still manufacturing the needed ammunition. Is it available in the US?


I've searched Ammo Seek.com and 30 Luger/7.65mm Para online and have not seen this ammo available at any retailer in the US.


I would have gone ahead and bought this stuff if it was available here, based on your posts in the P5 section on this forum.


Thanks.
 

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Unhappily, the only way to be sure of what will function is to try it. Can you buy a smaller quantity and test hop it?
Moon
 

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I'm also looking for .30 Luger ammo recommendations as I just picked up a conversion barrel and RSA for my Sig P210 this week.
 

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I just looked the ballistic data up in my manual "Die Selbstlade-Pistole "Parabellum"" from before WWI.


9mm bullet 8.0 Gr, V10 is 310m/sec = 124 grains @ 1020 fps (barrel length 102mm)
7,65 mm 6.00 Gr V10 is 350 m/sec = 93 grains @ 1150 fps (barrel length 120 mm)
 

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I'm also looking for .30 Luger ammo recommendations as I just picked up a conversion barrel and RSA for my Sig P210 this week.
With the recoil spring assembly for the 7,65 Para your gun should work with any factory load. The energy of the 7,65 is listed at 37.46 mkg in my old manual, the 9mm at 39.18 mkg.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
In relation to the prior post, a P5 is not a simple gun to "range swap" recoil springs in. I'm looking for the hottest factory 7.65Para ammo in the hopes it will function correctly in a P5 that's primarily shooting 124gr/1200fps 9mm (400ft/lbs M.E.).
 

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With the recoil spring assembly for the 7,65 Para your gun should work with any factory load. ...
Well, I am here to tell you that 7.65 Para Fiocchi is unreliable in a P210, and completely useless in a Swiss M1906 Luger, and that the velocity figures found in print are less truthful than this week's political campaign promises.

When in doubt, go to a chronograph. Here's what I found:

Advertised velocity, printed on the box: 1200 fps. on some, 1220 fps. on others. Actual delivered velocity, for 10-shot string in a P210, measured at 10 feet: HI 1145, LO 1093. Average 1125. Uniformity not great: extreme spread 52 fps, MAD 11.2 fps, CV 0.99%.

Waxing the cartridges with Simoniz significantly improves the functioning in the P210, but that's a time-consumer -- which is why i don't handload.

A small supply of leftover GECO did work, but of course it's no longer available. On average, its OAL was about .047" longer than Fiocchi. And it was obviously more powerful, though I did not chronograph it.

There is no factory-fresh Privi to be had, either. It's gone from the usual retail channels. Best bet is to hunt the gun shows. However, I've never tried it, so can't say if it's any better than Fiocchi.

M
 

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In relation to the prior post, a P5 is not a simple gun to "range swap" recoil springs in. I'm looking for the hottest factory 7.65Para ammo in the hopes it will function correctly in a P5 that's primarily shooting 124gr/1200fps 9mm (400ft/lbs M.E.).
No, it isn't a simple range swap but not too hard. The barrels of the P5 aren't supposed to be range-swaps. POA and POI of the different barrels have to be considered, too. The recoil assembly of the P210 does come apart and the spring can be changed.

I have been on the lookout for a well-priced post-war Mauser Parabellum in 7,65 and have inherited the mould, gas checks, and dies from a friend who had successfully reloaded the 7,65 Para for a Luger. I think that handloading, and especially reloading for this hard-to-find cartridge will yield the best results and be most economical in the long run.

At least for a shooter.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No, it isn't a simple range swap but not too hard. The barrels of the P5 aren't supposed to be range-swaps. POA and POI of the different barrels have to be considered, too. The recoil assembly of the P210 does come apart and the spring can be changed.

I have been on the lookout for a well-priced post-war Mauser Parabellum in 7,65 and have inherited the mould, gas checks, and dies from a friend who had successfully reloaded the 7,65 Para for a Luger. I think that handloading, and especially reloading for this hard-to-find cartridge will yield the best results and be most economical in the long run.

At least for a shooter.

Agree, the more I look online, the more it seems like reloading is the ONLY way to shoot "full" loaded 7.65 Para in the US.


Shooting "pop gun" 30 Luger that won't operate the action would get old FAST!
 

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Agree, the more I look online, the more it seems like reloading is the ONLY way to shoot "full" loaded 7.65 Para in the US.


Shooting "pop gun" 30 Luger that won't operate the action would get old FAST!

Besides casting your own lead and conventionally lube and size them, you could coat them with polymer paint. I had shot together with the gentleman who had developed plastic coating and later sold the recipe to Haendler & Natermann. It is a little more involved but well worth checking into. I had a bullet swaging press at some time and had excellent results with coated bullets.

I think properly sized hard cast bullets will work fine but jacketed will be closer to the original cartridge.

For me reloading is a part of my firearms hobby and I enjoy it as much as actual trigger time.
 

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Now I understand why you wondered if I reloaded .30 Luger, Mike.
Moon
 

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I use Prvi .30 Luger in my 1920 DWM with no problems whatsoever. I use Prvi 7.65 for my PP series pistols with no issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I use Prvi .30 Luger in my 1920 DWM with no problems whatsoever. I use Prvi 7.65 for my PP series pistols with no issues.

I think there's an issue with the 30Luger barrel P5s that some posters don't realize.


Both 30 Luger and 9mm P5s left Ulm with the same recoil springs, two 6# springs to be precise (12# total). These are the weakest springs available (no retailer has ANYTHING below 6#).


These 6# springs are the same ones Walther deemed acceptable for running 10s of Ks of round of +400 ft/lb muzzle energy 9mm Para ammo in the hands of German and Dutch Police Agencies.


How can these ALSO be expected to function properly with the current 30 Luger ammo available in the US? I'm willing to bet this stuff is 225 ft/lb ME TOPS!


Someone please explain this to me. If there is no REAL explanation to be provided, then the inexplicable conclusion to my query is, RSA rates are a SHAM.


If these 6# springs do provide acceptable cycling with weak 30 Luger ammo, they MUST be providing insufficient resistance with 400ft/lb ME 9mm Para ammo.


I've read several threads warning AGAINST installing 8# springs (available from Wolff Springs) in 9mm P5s. Seem that 8# springs would be a MUST if the 6# are correct for 30 Luger!
 

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Deuschlandü.A.,

if you want the easiest solution, custom load the ammo for your P5. If you have spare spring, you can polish them in a very unscientific approach but spring weight can be reuced this way. It will just be hard to reduce the spring by the exact amount to come up with the right spring weight.

As to Prvi Partizan, they are my best example for ammo induced incapacitation of a revolver. I had a case head separation ( the only one ever with a cylindrical case! ) in an original .357 Mag factory load that froze my Python up good.
 

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...

if you want the easiest solution, custom load the ammo for your P5. ...
Simpler yet is to buy a couple of spare springs and cut them 1/2 coil at a time until the gun cycles with 7.65mm Para.

Paint the springs on one end for easy identification.

This is quite feasible on a P5 or P38; not so much on a P210 or Luger.

M
 

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Simpler yet is to buy a couple of spare springs and cut them 1/2 coil at a time until the gun cycles with 7.65mm Para.

Paint the springs on one end for easy identification.

This is quite feasible on a P5 or P38; not so much on a P210 or Luger.

M
What is simpler really depends on one's perspective. As someone who has extensively worked on guns and is an avid reloader, I find the idea of removing and reinstalling the P5 recoil springs at the gun range multiple times, plus shortening them both equally, a little less simple to allow for the 4.4% reduced recoil impulse than producing two to four of batches of differently loaded ammo and test them.

It will also be easier to change back to 9mm and if I understood Deutschland ue.A. right, this is what he wanted: easier interchangeability of the barrels.
 
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