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Discussion Starter #1
I had always been under the impression that the 7.65 and 32 were identical. When I was having trouble feeding on initial load and then every 5th round or so I sent the Manhurin PP in for repair. I was using Remington, Fiochhi, and Winchester 32acp. The gunsmith ( a Walther Expert) tested the gun finding nothing wrong. He said that I had to use true European 7.65 vice US 32 acp. He did send a box of 32 Winchester Silvertip that has trouble loading.

Anyone else run into this problem?
 

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Guess I need some enlightment since 7.65mm= 0.2984 So what is the 7.65 revering to? I know I have a .357 Colt Python and Model 19 Smith and the bore is actual about .002 different. Colt is .355 and the Smith is .357 . Know good and well you are not going to shoot a .298 bullet down a .312 barrel in a 32.

A 32 ACP also know as 7.65×17mm Browning SR or 7.65 mm Browning
Case type Semi-rimmed, straight
Bullet diameter .3125 in (7.94 mm)
Neck diameter .3365 in (8.55 mm)
Base diameter .337 in (8.6 mm)
Rim diameter .358 in (9.1 mm)
Rim thickness .045 in (1.1 mm)
Case length .680 in (17.3 mm)
Overall length .984 in (25.0 mm)


Not sure what you are using this antique blow back pistol for but if it is self defense, I personally would limit it to one type of ammunition. Then I would get a couple recoil springs and trim to make it reliable. If it was me, I would get a small lock drop barrel Sig in 380 or 9mm . There are so much junk ammo around, blow back guns have trouble. I have a Beretta Model 1934 made in 1937. It hangs up pretty much once ever couple dozen rounds with the ammo made today.
 

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I suspect that 7.65 is the diameter measured at the lands, and the "32" is measured in the grooves.

Caliber naming nomenclature is one of the most confusing things in all of the world of mechanization.
 

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Walther pistols marked 7,65mm on the slides will shoot American-made .32 ACP ammo. They also will shoot shoot European-made ammo marked .32 ACP or 7,65mm. Not sure what the Walther expert was going for, exactly, or why. Mine do just fine with a steady diet of Remington and Winchester ammo.
 

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it's all about the case head / rim

Has nothing to do with the diameter of what the round is . 7.65 B vs .32ACP.
Rim lock is the problem due to the difference between domestic and Euro. Groove design at the case head. SAMMI vs CIP
I also own a Beretta M 1935. So far it has been a remarkably accurate and reliable pistol using either S&B or Fiocchi ammo.
Google - Foo is your friend. " Rim lock" are the words to include in your search.
 

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'Drummer, concur that rim lock can be an issue in the .32 ACP, tho' I can't say it has been a problem in my Walthers. I recall a KelTec that had to have the rounds carefully loaded in the magazine, but it's not been an issue in the PP or other .32s that I load for.
BTW, PriviPatisan is Serbian, and clocks at 912 in a Walther, but a quick perusal of the headstamps of my reloads looks like a little UN.
Moon
 

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Just composed a pretty long message on my tablet and it froze up and the post is lost. Hate it when that happens. Moved to the computer.
I have been wanting to try the PriviPartisan. Waiting to find a good price on it and I just purchased another case of Fiocchi so I may need to wait a bit.
On the rim lock. I guess it is rather random and some folks are luckier than others. Fortunately it seems to be fairly rare in occurrence. Seems like the European made pistols that experience rim lock have it happen when using non European made ammo. I wonder if the owners of European made pistols who have experienced rim lock would see it go away if they switched to European made ammo.
I pretty much based my response on a report I read some time ago by someone who I thought at the time was a reputable source. Trouble is, search as I may I am not finding it.
As I remember his conclusion in regards to rim lock was centered around the difference in the groove dimensions between Euro and domestic semi rimmed 7.65 B ammo.Those differences being the width of the groove and the profile of the groove. Perhaps the depth as well, but I do not remember for sure. I know there is also a school of thought that believes the length of the hollow point being different from the length of the FMJ is the culprit. I cannot remember his reasoning but I think he argued against this theory.
Whatever I read it made be a believer. In my experience with a Walther PP series pistol and the Beretta I now own I can honestly say that I have NEVER had any type of malfunctions whatsoever. All I have ever used is S&B and Fiocchi. I will say that my choice of the Euro ammo is also due to my preference for the heavier projectile and an apparent hotter loading than the SAMMI ammo.
Maybe I am just lucky or maybe I have been fortunate enough to have purchased two exceptional examples of 7.65 B caliber pistols.
But if it ain't broke I am not going to go about fixing it.
UN head stamp? Suggesting it is actually made in Germany? ( Utendoerffer, Nuremberg.) Maybe the Germans have an assembly plant in Serbia that they supply raw materials to. Sort of like Walthers made in France.
Interesting
 

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Most of my Walthers shoot well with both brands shown but my SIG Sauer models prefer the Euro ammunition definitely. There the ammunition made by Remington causes many FTE (one or two per magazine). With Geco I can shoot 100 rounds without a single failure.



 

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Rimlock seems to only be a problem on the small 32's and shorter HP ammo . My KelTec 32 rimlocked on me Was shooting that Winchester junk . I went to a rimlock kit and many many rounds of HP later never a problem I did find the Winchester flat nose is same OAL as HP I have shot it in my KelTec mags with the kit installed . My other P-32' s are only shot with ball S&B or Fiocchi. ammo. I carry Corbon JHP in my P-32 .

The shorter HP can move in the mag and this can cause the rim lock . The Kit takes up the slack and all rounds stay in place just like ball .
Once I installed the kit in my P-32 Rimlock gone If I use a different mag and normal ball again no problem My 1st P-32 is going on 10 yrs old Has had a lot of Corbon JHP down range with fixed mag and lot of S&B with stock mag.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks all for great info. There is a difference in 7.65 and 32 acp. However, I don't think I was clear enough in my problem description because the consensus seems to be rim lock. My rounds are not getting "locked" in the magazine but get jammed at an angle on the feed ramp. Sometimes I can close the breach with a medium tap on the slide while most the round is almost at a 45 degree slant locking the slide half open position. All with 32 but not 7.65.
 

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I've got very small experience w. US-made ammo. Tried Winchester Super-X and it worked fine in my practice PPK ('62 Ulm).

No shortage of European ammo in Germany ;), RWS/GECO (new, old), Fiocchi, S&B are working fine as well.

Magtech was a bit 'pricky'. The bullet is more rounded and the shell a bit shorter. But as we know, PP-series pistols are ammo sensitive. It's a 30th design.

@OP: Try what you can get to find 'your ammo to your gun'.
 

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Rimlock seems to only be a problem on the small 32's and shorter HP ammo . My KelTec 32 rimlocked on me Was shooting that Winchester junk . I went to a rimlock kit and many many rounds of HP later never a problem I did find the Winchester flat nose is same OAL as HP I have shot it in my KelTec mags with the kit installed . My other P-32' s are only shot with ball S&B or Fiocchi. ammo. I carry Corbon JHP in my P-32 .

The shorter HP can move in the mag and this can cause the rim lock . The Kit takes up the slack and all rounds stay in place just like ball .
Once I installed the kit in my P-32 Rimlock gone If I use a different mag and normal ball again no problem My 1st P-32 is going on 10 yrs old Has had a lot of Corbon JHP down range with fixed mag and lot of S&B with stock mag.
I will have to give some domestic HP ammo a try in the Beretta and see what happens just as an experiment.
What exactly is the "kit" you refer to? Name or manufacturer? From what you posted about switching Magazine for ball ammo I am guessing once the kit is installed ball ammo cannot be used in the kit modified magazine. Correct?
 

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Interesting about the extractor slot. Just looking at that appears that a heaver recoil spring would help if that is the problem. Exact opposite of what I have always thought the problem was form my old 1934. Know my PPK/S came with a recoil spring cut way short. Misspec provide me with a Wolf spring that was factory spec. Both appear to work fairly well. The Wolf is a real bear for old weak arms. Nether have proven totally reliable but my shooting has been limited to a mix bag of purchased second hand ammo.
 

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Balogh's pictures of the side by side cases may illustrate why the rimlock problem is more common in ammo with a more abrupt angle at the front of the extractor slot. A quick examination of my stash showed only the Federal HydraShocks had a similar angle. Looking thru' the already reloaded rounds, even the domestically headstamped (W-W) had a more gradual angle.
I'd be interested in hearing about the 'rimlock kit' as well, tho' my KelTec is long gone.
'Drummer, my reference to 'UN' was in connection with the eclectic nature of my reloaded brass, not a specific headstamp. On my reloading labels, for brass I generally say 'unamit'. Since reloading for autopistols, I can't be bothered to sort headstamps.
Moon
 

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Balogh's pictures of the side by side cases may illustrate why the rimlock problem is more common in ammo with a more abrupt angle at the front of the extractor slot. A quick examination of my stash showed only the Federal HydraShocks had a similar angle. Looking thru' the already reloaded rounds, even the domestically headstamped (W-W) had a more gradual angle.
I'd be interested in hearing about the 'rimlock kit' as well, tho' my KelTec is long gone.
'Drummer, my reference to 'UN' was in connection with the eclectic nature of my reloaded brass, not a specific headstamp. On my reloading labels, for brass I generally say 'unamit'. Since reloading for autopistols, I can't be bothered to sort headstamps.
Moon
Got it.
Guess I was making it way too complicated.
 
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Still reflecting on this thread, and recalling the rimlock I got with the KelTec .32; itgenerally happened if I let the round above get slightly behind the rim of the round below it.
The locked-breech KelTec had fairly mild recoil springs, which didn't have enough energy to drive the locked round over its fellow below it. The Walther, with its more energetic recoil spring and greater slide mass, seemed to just drive the round forward.
Moon
 

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Still reflecting on this thread, and recalling the rimlock I got with the KelTec .32; itgenerally happened if I let the round above get slightly behind the rim of the round below it.
The locked-breech KelTec had fairly mild recoil springs, which didn't have enough energy to drive the locked round over its fellow below it. The Walther, with its more energetic recoil spring and greater slide mass, seemed to just drive the round forward.
Moon
What was the ammo that was used when you had the problem? Was it Euro?
The point as I recall being made by what I read was that the semi Rim / groove design of the Euro made ammo prevented this from happening.
Side question. You ever load using the 83 grain HBSWC projectiles? I often wondered how they might perform.
 
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