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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

First, one word of introduction. I have been active on this forum for a while under the name "Laurent". As I couldn't login after a year + of absence - and never got an answer to my SOSs - I finally log on under another name. It is the name I'm known for at the www.hipowersandhandguns.com forum.

A year ago, I mentionned here my interest for a PP Super but I finally ended with a 1967 Ulm PP in 9 short. A very nice gun indeed.

Recently, I cracked for a PP Super in 9 police. A slight worn Bavarian Police surplus (with the "ByP" cartouch crossed on the frame) that came with 250 rounds of Hirtenberger.

At the range, I arranged a comparison shooting between the PP and the Super. The first is more snappy in .380 than the second in 9 police, due to the latter's large and confortable grip. In combat drills, the Super is much more effective: faster and more accurate. The grip, good DA/SA and large sights do contribute. The PP does good with more concentration - and pain on the web of the hand.

At 25 meters, shooting for accuracy, the old PP is even better, the smaller sights being of advantage.

From my recallings, the Super is much better in ergonomy and handling than a .380 SIG P230 (alu frame) that I had for a time.

Next, I tried some .380 rounds in the Super. It fired without any problems, except a slight loss of accuracy at 25 m.

In my enthusiasm, I finally put about 80 .380 through the Super with just one failure to fire. When I ejected the round by hand, the primer was not marked, it had probably slipped out of reach for the firing pin... but still came out - so what? Generally the .380 shells are bulged at the base.

From my experience, the .380 looks like a viable alternative to the rare and expensive 9 police, at least for training.

I've been warned not to fire a shorter round in a gun because it puts strain on the extractor. I'm not to concerned as extractors are strong on Walthers. In straight blowback designs, the extractor is made to take a lot of stress as the slide recoils violently and immediatly after the ignition.

I'm not concerned more by a pitting of the chamber due to the shorter shell. .380 is a low pressure round and it can't do more harm than .38 in a .357 cylinder.

I'll keep you informed.

L.
 

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Hello Laurent,
Good to hear about you again. Fwiw, you don't mind me still calling you Laurent, do you?

A PP Super 9x18 with 250 rounds of Hirtenberger? I'd say that was pretty nice. However, if you want to hoard a couple cartouches more try these folks, http://www.lagardere.ch/index.php?o...ile=liste.php&nbrecordparpage=10&critere=9x18

Last time I heard from them, about three months ago, perhaps more, they had 175 cartridges left. Meaning, seven boxes of 25. Of the 100 gr variety, I believe. I tried to get them over here on my own but the process is quite complicated. A dealer here, which I assisted in contacting lagardere, wanted to import greater quantities but never got a reply back to the question if they were able to obtain more.

If you go there, could you please check out the Tanfoglio 9x18 barrel? I am interested in acquiring it. But due to the difficulties in keeping contact with the lagardere folks I have not been able to ask them about it. An additional problem is how to get it here. Don't really know if they can merely ship it to me. I do know that I can receive a barrel without any problems here. Question is if they can mail it to me without any further complications.

Just another heads-up. If you want wood grips for your Super, there's a gentleman in Hungary that could make them. Uncut is, afaik, waiting to get them. Wonderful work, quality product. Believe me, palm swells and a target thumbrest makes the Super extremely manageable, especially if 'molded' to your hand. A definite advantage of wood grips. They can be sanded to fit your hand better.

As to the Sig P230, which I hope you still have, the Hogue rubber grips with finger grooves make one heck of a difference. It did with mine and it's a 9x18 U (Police).

Did you notice any etching of the chamber after firing .380 in the Super? Or is it still smooth inside?

Welcome back.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hello Jehzsa,

Yes, you can go on with "Laurent".

No I didn't notice any etching in the chamber. I don't think that 80 rounds are enough for any damage.

And I don't have the P230 anymore - my wife almost pulled my eyes out for that - I didn't really like it. It didn't fit my large hands very well.

I know about Lagardere. Made some very good deals with him but the guy has very bad manners. Either you come with the permit and money or he doesn't pay attention.

I'll try to grab the last Hirtenberger - he don't print them anymore in his last catalogue - and check for your barrel.

Bye.

L.
 

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FWIW
I have not heard from Dennis in over a month now :confused:
I did send him a mail just last night to see if there is any updates at all
 

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Hello Laurent,
Thanks for your replies. I can agree about the bad manners. I wrote to him in French, when the folks at SSME couldn't get him to reply to them. His reply to me was sober but business-like, appropriate. But when I wrote back inquiring if he could obtain a more significant supply of Hirtenberg 9x18U...complete silence. Not even a Christmas card.

Permit? For a canons? That's the problem right there. If one is needed, I don't think I'd be able to procure one. Too much of a hassle to do it long-distance. If it were like here in the US, namely, see it, pay it, send it by mail....then it's easy. Nevertheless, if you go there please inquire for me. If it's a pay-and-send deal, it should be OK. For permits , that's another matter. Thanks.

Hello Uncut,
They take time. Mine took about a couple of months. Perhaps a bit more. And he's probably very busy taking care of previous orders, if what I read from the makarov forum is an indication. He's even making a custom one for a Sig P230. Not mine. I'm very happy with the Hogue rubbers.

Btw, what wood did you choose? Hope it was a hard one. Let me take a guess...steamed wattle? Gorgeous wood.
 

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I didn't pick any wood....
he was clear about this.... he said send me the grips and I look at them.. then I decide what wood is good....
I had bought 2 sets of screw retainers... so I could at a later time get another set of grips....
 

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Hmmm. OK. You could always dye them black with Dick Blick's India ink. Makes for a mean presentation. And they can be restored back to original. Did it with mine.

Fwiw, I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't selected a hardwood like African Blackwood for mine, they would have been in the trash pile a long time ago. I think that's what Dennis had in mind when he required those specs. No kidding, my friend. I've had to reinforce a couple of areas in mine, including glueing a metal washer in the left grip. Where the screw hole gave way.

Did you request palm swells and/or thumbrest?
 

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Nope... the only thing I requested was that the grips not be so big from front to backstrap.... which is my biggest issue with the original grips.....
I had asked him to make them like the ones shown on one of Earl's PP SUper's
 

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FWIW....
I would sell my used 9x18 right now (if I had the original grips) so I could get some money for a .380
kinda pissy about the ammo situation to tell you the truth...
the ones I still have will last some time... but for sure would last longer if I would only have the NIB PP Super 9x18 to use :D
 

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Pics, please! That'll be the day when you fire the NIB. Which I'm pretty sure you will not.

But think about it another way. When it's time to sell that ammo, which I hope you won't, you'll make a tidy profit.

Reloading is the key now. Not that expensive with a start-up kit and could be quite entertaining and therapeutical. Got to save the brass. Already purchased a brass catcher. Or, as Laurent suggested, shoot .380.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hello Jehzsa,

One more word about the 9 x 18 barrel: in Switzerland, barrels are classified as essential parts, so as slides and frames, and you need a permit to buy. To send it to the US, I would have to require an aquisition license (easy) and an export license too (it is given if the importer is allowed to acquire the gun/part in his land and can prove it with officials papers). So, on the other side, you would have to clear the situation (does it require an import permit for the US?) and do all the papers.

I'm not sure it is worth the pain...

I'll sure be interested to see these wood grips. I find the plastic grips confortable but larger than they could be. They also cover the magazine base which might be a problem.

My "dream grips" for the Super (and the P5) would be wood, checkered (large pattern), shorter than the original (to let about 0.125" of the frame uncovered), with a tapper at the base like the P5c's. If the inner molding and backstrap wouln'd not be so complicated, I would have already tried my hand on a pair.

L.
 

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Hello Laurent,
From my point of view, it is not worth the pain. Too many bureaucratic hurdles to clear. Over here, there's no particular requirement for the importation of a barrel. It is not classified as an essential part. At least I don't think so.

It just might be a simpler task for me to get there at some point and just buy it. Granted, while complying with all Swiss regulations. Somehow it sounds an easier thing to do. Thanks anyway. I appreciate your input.

Don't expect wood grips to be slimmer than the plastic counterparts. They will not be slimmer. They need that added strength to be able to survive the recoil forces. And the familiar over-tightening of the screw. Admitedly, they could be made shorter. But I guess it all depends on the particular base upon which they will rest. There's only one way to do this and it is to have the frame available. Or perhaps, get them original size and then sand them to your pleasure. I wouldn't exactly recommend that, because of the fact that grips do take a beating when the weapon is fired. IIRC, my grips were made from four parts. If only because the glue does provide added strength to them. The tapper at the base shouldn't be a problem. Very little vertical recoil forces at work there.

Probably your best bet is to find a custom grip maker near you. So you can discuss your requirements and get his input with the pistol at hand.
 

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That'll be the day when you fire the NIB. Which I'm pretty sure you will not.

But think about it another way. When it's time to sell that ammo, which I hope you won't, you'll make a tidy profit.
Nope I will not sell the ammo that is for sure...
FWIW... I bought 1000 from SOG and turned around to buy another 1000 from the guy that sold me my PP Super.... wasn't as cheap but at $10 per pox still better than what's out there today.....+ shipping
 

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...turned around to buy another 1000 from the guy that sold me my PP Super....
That was as smart as it gets. And the way things are now, truly brilliant. The cheapest Geco that I have found since the SOG rapture is $24.00/50. The one I told you about earlier.

Congrats. :cool:
 

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I am not afraid of shooting 380's in my Super. I don't notice much if any degrading accuracy, the cases do bulge a little and the slower slide velocity doesn't eject the emptys as far. But since it is a weaker round, I agree that it really can't hurt anything. One thing is for sure, it is alot more pleasant shooting than with the snappy 9/18 ultra rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hello,

Went to the range again, and shot about 80 .380, beside 2 mags of the precious 9 Police. Not problems except 3 failures to fire the first shot - hand chambered. So I make an habit of checking if the first round is correctly chambered when I fire .380.

Bye.

L.
 
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