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I've got a dilemma; a local shop has an Interarms PPK for $450 in .380. I've sworn off the larger caliber in the PP series due to past problems, but the gun looks to be in good shape...
May have to try it again; maybe see if Tom's reloads run in this one.
Moon
 

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Be careful chambering and unchambering your .380 cartridges without firing them. They will smash into the loaded (whether commercial or reloaded) case to less than the original inserted bullet depth to compress the over all length of the loaded case.

You must fire them immediately and not cycle them. The bullets will be pushed further down into the cases (whether factory or yours loaded) and be smaller in over all length with attendant problems in ignition/pressure.

Choose the .32 ACP in a Walther to avoid this mishap or never chamber a live cartridge from a .380 and eject it to re-insert it. It will be smashed further into the brass to create a short OAL or perhaps create pressure problems.

PS

The recoil spring on the .380 after thought "Walther" of original .32 ACP is tough and strong to deal with the .380 over the .32 ACP. It will damage (the .380 tough spring) chambered ammunition in .380 so that you either must fire it or discard it without reloading it.

In .32 ACP the recoil spring is gentler and allows chambered action with reloading and firing of the same top magazine cartridge.

In short the recoil spring designed for the .32 ACP (in the first place) is perfect for .32 ACP.

In .380 it was an afterthought for those who felt the .32 ACP wasn't enough.

Most of those thinking the .380 was better resided in USA thinking they knew more than Walther did for the .32.

Bigger is not better in a Walther.
 

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Did you try to chamber the .380 ACP or Browning Short (Kurz) in your fabulous .380 to see what I said after I said the .32 ACP or 7.65mm was what the Walther PP or PPK or PPK/S is all about?
 

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Discussion Starter #44
UPDATE

Last night I shot 100 rounds of my "new favorite" load through my (S&W)Walther PPK/S.380. I am very pleased with the results and this confirms my original test of two weeks ago. Light recoil, no failures, accurate, pleasant to shoot.

2.0 gr. Bullseye
100 gr Rainier Plated RN
CCI Primers
OAL: .0965 +/-

I will stick with this load and keep the gun clean.
 

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Don't know that bullet push-in is a sin especially reserved for the PP series pistols or .380 cartridges. It can, and does happen with any auto pistol, tho' some are certainly worse than others. It behooves the shooter to examine any round that's been in and out of the gun, as pressures will increase dramatically with a pushed-in cartridge.

One of the many benefits of the revolver is their ease in dealing with administrative handling; it's convenient to clear and load them without drama and without wear and tear on the rounds. A LEO buddy had to clear his revolver every time he entered the local jail; wonder how the current cops are handling that with their issued autopistols?
Moon
 

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Don't know that bullet push-in is a sin especially reserved for the PP series pistols or .380 cartridges. It can, and does happen with any auto pistol, tho' some are certainly worse than others. It behooves the shooter to examine any round that's been in and out of the gun, as pressures will increase dramatically with a pushed-in cartridge.

One of the many benefits of the revolver is their ease in dealing with administrative handling; it's convenient to clear and load them without drama and without wear and tear on the rounds. A LEO buddy had to clear his revolver every time he entered the local jail; wonder how the current cops are handling that with their issued autopistols?
Moon
Revolvers can be loaded and unloaded at any time or frequency because the "chambering" of a round up the ramp does not happen.

In an auto your auto (whether .45 ACP or .380 or .32 or .22) should be able to chamber the round without pushing the bullet further into the case.
Case settled here regarding revolvers v autos and what autos actually keep integrity of chambered round "over all length" dimensions.
 

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Be careful chambering and unchambering your .380 cartridges without firing them. They will smash into the loaded (whether commercial or reloaded) case to less than the original inserted bullet depth to compress the over all length of the loaded case.

You must fire them immediately and not cycle them. The bullets will be pushed further down into the cases (whether factory or yours loaded) and be smaller in over all length with attendant problems in ignition/pressure.

Choose the .32 ACP in a Walther to avoid this mishap or never chamber a live cartridge from a .380 and eject it to re-insert it. It will be smashed further into the brass to create a short OAL or perhaps create pressure problems.

PS

The recoil spring on the .380 after thought "Walther" of original .32 ACP is tough and strong to deal with the .380 over the .32 ACP. It will damage (the .380 tough spring) chambered ammunition in .380 so that you either must fire it or discard it without reloading it.

In .32 ACP the recoil spring is gentler and allows chambered action with reloading and firing of the same top magazine cartridge.

In short the recoil spring designed for the .32 ACP (in the first place) is perfect for .32 ACP.

In .380 it was an afterthought for those who felt the .32 ACP wasn't enough.

Most of those thinking the .380 was better resided in USA thinking they knew more than Walther did for the .32.

Bigger is not better in a Walther.
Ya know - I hear that sort of thing about chambering and then not ever re-chambering that round a lot on the web, and it got me to wondering what that might be based on. There's a lot of folklore around about that topic, but I didn't find much fact's and data, so I decided to do a bit of an experiment.

Out in the shop I have 4 kinds of .380 factory ammo laying about collecting a mite bit of dust - Fiocchi .380 90 gr XTP, Magtec 95 gr FMJ and 95 gr JHP, and Remington 95 gr FMJ.

Taking a caliper to them I get this measurement for 10 rounds selected at random from each factory new box:

Fiocchi w/ XTP: .954 +/- .0005 for 10 rounds
Magtec 95 JHP: .969 +/- .0005 for 10 rds
Magtec 95 FMJ: .969 +/- .002
Rem 95 gr FMC .965 +/- .005 (seriously - these guys were all over hells half acre for COL)

I then took a random load from each box, and chambered it and ejected it ten times from my Interarms PPk. I took a mag, loaded it as the only cartridge, locked the slide back using an empty mag, and then slingshot released the round into the chamber for ten repetitions.

At the end of this ten load cycle I measured each round that was loaded to see what change had occurred for each one.

My results:

Brand bullet/weight before/after COL
Fiocchi 95 XTP .956 .956
magtec 95 JHP .969 .966
magtec 95 FMC .968 .968
Rem 95 FMC .950 .950


My conclusions - do your own experiments before you go believing old wives tales . .. . .

Test your ammo - cycle it often, for practice if no other reason, but don't let other peoples absolutes and rumors deter you from finding the truth for yourself.


YMMV - but you won't know till you test drive it . . . .

Shadow Catcher
 

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magtec 95 JHP .969 .966

What happened there?
 

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magtec 95 JHP .969 .966

What happened there?
After being loaded into the chamber from the top of a magazine ten times in a row, the round managed to shrink by .003 of an inch . . . which makes me think that the same round reloaded and unload ten times in a row might be an issue, and could even potentially increase chamber pressure from normal to slightly higher . . . but given the variation in COL by several manufacturers, and if by way of training I cycle mags and ammo in a regular manner, it's probably meaningless . . .

All ammo should be cycled regularly, and shot annually and replaced, IMHO. Hell - the exposure to penetrating lubricants like gun oil is probably more risky than bullet set back as an issue, so just shoot it all up every year or sooner, and replace as part of your training drill.

There are no absolutes in this game, only probabilities . . . .

Shadow Catcher
 

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After being loaded into the chamber from the top of a magazine ten times in a row ...
I have not read or heard of anyone having a problem with penetrating lubricants gun oil water or anything damaging quality American Ammo.
It's not a good idea to keep re-chambering the same bullet, but a few times IMHO won't cause a dangerous pressure because of bullet setback.
I have shot Ammo. over 25 years old that shot just as if it were just Mfg.
 

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We're pretty much in agrreement . . .

I cycle ammo into and out of the chamber fairly regularly - probably once a week, depending on whether I have to unload and store a gun, or change carry gun for what ever reason. Most of my carry ammo that gets chambered only gets chamberd a half dozen or so times before it ends up being shot anyway - so I really don't worry at all about the issue.

My point about oil was that modern penetrating oils are more likely do effect the ammo than the act of cycling a round into and out of a chamber, again - probably not a lot - but it is a consideration. The long and short of it is that we need to stay in practice with our duty ammo, and the best wat to accomplish that is to cycle the ammo regularly - at least annually, and not let it get archeological in our guns!

I figure if I go through three mags of Corbon DPX every six months to stay in tune with it, along with boxes and boxes of 95 FMJ, it's worth it. The added cost of 20+ rounds of DPX is under $30 per six months - heck, I spend twice that on a good bottle of Scotch, and a lot more often than every six months! What's your life worth to you?

SC
 

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'Catcher, good data, and I applaud you taking the initiative and actually measuring the rounds.
And I'm not adverse to rechambering the same round several times; my EDC gets delinted and lubed every week or so; sometimes I rotate the rounds in the mag, or at least carefully examine any round that's been in and out of the chamber. If nothing else, HPs often end up distorted over time. My argument is that carry ammo, especially, should be examined carefully.
I have experienced 'push in' with my reloads, but that may be the combination of a less-agressive crimp than the factory (reloaders hate to overwork brass; it may lead to a split case after a dozen loadings....)and outside lubed lead bullets. That greasy lube makes it hard for the case to get a really good grip. OTOH, my 9mm resizing die is so aggressive that it is easy to see the base of the bullet in the case; the cartridge looks like a coke bottle. No push-in issues there...
Old-time milspec .45 rounds actually had the bullet secured with some asphaltum based product as well as a taper crimp; don't know if that is still the practice. Military stuff is engineered to be 'soldier proof' to a huge degree, and they like things to be weather-proof as well. When Browning designed the .45ACP he was way out in front of the curve with autopistols and their ammo; he may have favored a belt and suspenders.
Moon
 

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After being loaded into the chamber from the top of a magazine ten times in a row ...
I won't argue this fine statement. What I will say is when I have racked and chambered .380 ammunition in the W. German or German or Interarms Walthers (imported) and SW Houlton (especially Houlton) I've found my live .380 rounds (chambered and ejected) to be noticeably shorter to my eye without calipers. When I stand those ejected rounds against new in box (never chambered rounds) the bullet is seated further down (a lot) than having to use a caliper to measure.

The recoil spring in a .380 modified Walther PP series is a lot stronger and whether Houlton tries to "ramp it up" in a smoother way or the original pistol design is altered to ramp up a .380 it IS POSSIBLE with CERTAIN AMMUNITION off the SHELF of a RESPECTABLE ammunition seller to have .380 rounds crushed further into their cases with chambering and unloading.

I have not ever found this to be a problem with a .32 ACP or .22 LR.

However, in the .22LR (a rimfire) you have a whole new set of problems unrelated to Center Fire.
 

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hello friends,
The .380 ACP has experienced widespread use in the years since its introduction. It was famously used by many German officers during World War II in the Walther PPK, as well as by Italian forces in the M1934 Beretta. However, as a service pistol round, its low power did not provide suitable penetration for combat. It did find use as a backup gun due to low recoil, and is popular in the civilian market as a personal defense round. The .380 ACP round is considered suitable for self-defense situations, and as a result, it has been a viable choice for concealed carry pistols. The combination of decent penetration in close range defense situations with light recoil has made it a viable round for those who wish to carry a small, lightweight handgun that can still provide adequate defense.
thanks
 
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