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Nice.
It looks so effortless in animationland.
LOL...no kidding!!!!! I did see one part that I do differently. Or at least, Uncle Sam taught me differently. That was the recoil spring. I was taight to put the spring on the guide BEFORE putting the slide on he receiver. I may have to try it the way the video does to see if getting that *^%^#(&@ link to line up easier with the slide stop pin :D

Dep



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Looking at the complexity of a 1911 just makes me even happier I went with a P99 =)
Complexity?!?!?!?!?:eek: :eek: That is probably the SIMPLEST hadgun design in existence. Virtually the whole pistol can be taken down to bare frame with no tools, except for maybe a small screwdriver for the mag release. No roll pins, hammers, or punches are necessary.

If you want to see complex, take a look at the handgun that REPLACED the 1911. The Beretta 92 is certainly NOT user-friendly by any stretch.



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Complexity?!?!?!?!?:eek: :eek: That is probably the SIMPLEST hadgun design in existence. Virtually the whole pistol can be taken down to bare frame with no tools, except for maybe a small screwdriver for the mag release. No roll pins, hammers, or punches are necessary.

If you want to see complex, take a look at the handgun that REPLACED the 1911. The Beretta 92 is certainly NOT user-friendly by any stretch.
Just because it doesn't need tools doesn't mean it isn't difficult to break down... how many parts are there, 50? You're obviously a fan of a 1911 so whatever I say isn't going to change your mind but there is absolutely no comparison between the ease of breakdown of a P99 and a 1911. How many times does it take someone to know how to break down and put a 1911 back together? I'm guessing quite a few, meanwhile with the P99 if you do it once you know how to do it and you can do it in 30 seconds... which means you'll probably clean and oil it more often. Someone took many hours just to build a 3D model of the breakdown of a 1911 to help people understand how to do it :p

Obviously breaking down a P99 doesn't include anything in the polymer handle or trigger system but that is one beauty of the design... you don't even have to worry about it, if for whatever reason you have a problem there just take it to a gunsmith or figure it out on your own after tens of thousands of rounds. To the average user the complexity of the 1911 is huge, sure there are weapons out there that are even more difficult but when it comes to comparing it to a P99 it looks like quantum physics. 1911s are amazing pistols and I love shooting them... but I hate cleaning them. I can honestly say at the top of my long list of reasons for buying a P99 the simple breakdown was at the top.
 

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Just because it doesn't need tools doesn't mean it isn't difficult to break down... how many parts are there, 50? You're obviously a fan of a 1911 so whatever I say isn't going to change your mind but there is absolutely no comparison between the ease of breakdown of a P99 and a 1911. How many times does it take someone to know how to break down and put a 1911 back together? I'm guessing quite a few, meanwhile with the P99 if you do it once you know how to do it and you can do it in 30 seconds... which means you'll probably clean and oil it more often. Someone took many hours just to build a 3D model of the breakdown of a 1911 to help people understand how to do it :p

Obviously breaking down a P99 doesn't include anything in the polymer handle or trigger system but that is one beauty of the design... you don't even have to worry about it, if for whatever reason you have a problem there just take it to a gunsmith or figure it out on your own after tens of thousands of rounds. To the average user the complexity of the 1911 is huge, sure there are weapons out there that are even more difficult but when it comes to comparing it to a P99 it looks like quantum physics. 1911s are amazing pistols and I love shooting them... but I hate cleaning them. I can honestly say at the top of my long list of reasons for buying a P99 the simple breakdown was at the top.
Obviously breaking down the P99 DOES include EVERYTHING inside the polymer frame. They broke down EVERYTHING on the 1911. Unless you do the exact same thing on your vunderweapon P-99, it's not an even comparison.
The 1911 does NOT need to be broken down as far as that video shows to CLEAN it. That was an illustration of ALL of the components being assembled from a BARE FRAME. The exact same thing would have to be shown for a P99 for an even comparison.

BTW...if you are in a location where there is NO GUNSMITH, how are you going to get that wonderful P-99 repaired??? The 1911 is used WORLDWIDE in every continent in the world. And parts are also available worldwide. You have VERY FEW sources for repair parts for a P99, and as you said, you'd have to SEND IT to a gunsmith or armorer to have it repaired. The 1911 you can repair yourself right out in the field.

As to time required to break down a 1911 to it's major components for cleaning...in the Army we had 15 seconds to take it apart, 30 seconds to put it back together. As everyone knows, the Army is made up of a wide variety of mechanical skill levels. EVERYONE who received a 1911 was able to accomplish the requirements for breakdown and reassembly, and most guys did it in MUCH LESS time than was required.

Dep



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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Virtually the whole pistol can be taken down to bare frame with no tools, except for maybe a small screwdriver for the mag release.
Don't even need a tool for that. The sear spring leaf will fit the screw slot perfectly on the mag catch lock.

Dep is correct about field stripping vs. detail stripping. Field stripping (partial disassembly) on the 1911 only takes two more steps than on a P99. That is because the recoil spring/guide and barrel/bushing are made up of more than one piece instead of coming out of the gun as a unit like on the the P99.

Detail stripping (full disassembly to the frame) varies depending on which version of the 1911 you have. Some are more complicated than others. I have what is commonly called a "series 70" meaning that it does not have a separate firing pin safety. It is the simplest version. Disassembling the slide consists of 1. removing the firing pin stop, 2. removing the extractor, 3. removing the firing pin and spring. 3 parts total. Compare that to the multiple steps and small parts in the P99 video that Thorn did and you will see the difference.

None of this should be construed as 1911 zealotry, or a bash of the P99. I have had both and find them to be excellent firearms. The P99 is slightly more complicated, but that is the nature of a DA/SA pistol. It has to do more things. That doesn't make one better than the other, just different.
 

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Well said P99man!!! I also have both a P99AS and a "few" 1911s (as can be seen in my avatar). I have the Series 80 firing pin safety system on my Colt Commander. But all my other 1911s have the same thing as yours. BTW...do you still have the collet barrel bushing on your 1911? That was the source of some early problems, because if the fingers broke, it really jammed up the barrel badly. Most guys I know replaced the collet bushing with a solid NM bushing.

Dep



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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
BTW...do you still have the collet barrel bushing on your 1911?
Ah my series 70 comment has stirred some confusion. To clarify, the 1911 in question is not a Colt, so no collet bushing. It is a series 70 style meaning it doesn't have the FPS.

Mine is an early Kimber Custom. Sorry to confuse.
 

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