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-   -   WALTHER MP-L (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/walther-rifles/14566-walther-mp-l.html)

TANFOGLIO 11-19-2010 11:36 AM

WALTHER MP-L
 
http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0001.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0002.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0003.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0004.jpg

TANFOGLIO 11-19-2010 11:36 AM

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0005.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0006.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0007.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0008.jpg

TANFOGLIO 11-19-2010 11:37 AM

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0009.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0010.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0011.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0012.jpg

TANFOGLIO 11-19-2010 11:37 AM

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0013.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0014.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0015.jpg

http://www.tanfo.de/0_WA/MP_L_0016.jpg

RickJZ 11-19-2010 03:44 PM

This is an outstanding addition to your vast collection! :cool:

searcher451 11-19-2010 06:42 PM

In a word, wow.

That's all. Just wow.

bigfatdave 11-19-2010 07:01 PM

Is that a submachinegun with the fun switch?



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bigfatdave 11-19-2010 07:11 PM

I did some research for anyone else curious:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg39-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_MP

The wiki page claims that the MP-L has 100 and 200 meter settings, can you actually reach out that far with it, TANFOGLIO?



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TANFOGLIO 11-20-2010 08:15 AM

The effective range defines the effective range of firearms.
It is the distance at which the effect of the gun is still effective.

It is not the distance of the accuracy.

The 9mm x 19mm (9Para) shot out from a MP-L (long)
have enough energy @ 200 meters.
But it is not easy to hit the target.

9x19
Maximum range ca. 1800 Meter
Max Effective, Point ca. 50m for a Pistol and ca 150m for a MP
Max Effective, Area ca 200 - 350 Meter = >85 joules


•Absolute maximum effective range: This the "this round is not considered lethal after crossing this threshold" distance. Neither of the other two common "maximum range" values will be greater than this. Purportedly, NATO defines this as the point at which the projectile's kinetic energy dips below 85 joules (62.7 foot-pounds). This is typically claimed when recounting that the P90's effective range is 400 meters on unarmored targets, as classified by NATO. It's worth noting that while the P90 looks neater than the civilian PS90, the extra barrel length increases the muzzle velocity and thus the civilian model actually has a longer absolute max effective range.

•Maximum effective range on a point target: This is the maximum range at which an average shooter can hit a human-sized target 50% of the time. "Point target" is basically a euphemism for hitting a human torso sized area in this context. If this range were greater than the absolute maximum, the absolute maximum would be quoted (a non-lethal hit may be accurate, but it's not effective).

•Maximum effective range on an area target: This is the maximum range at which an average shooter can hit a vehicle-sized target 50% of the time. In other words, this is the maximum distance at which it would make sense to open fire on a group or vehicle, etc. If this range were greater than the absolute maximum, the absolute maximum would be quoted (a non-lethal hit may be accurate, but it's not effective).

James1 11-22-2010 11:20 AM

Very neat.
 
Is that a "live" gun or a "DEKO"?

RickJZ 11-22-2010 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James1 (Post 104264)
Is that a "live" gun or a "DEKO"?

It is a "live" gun.

Veto11 02-05-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TANFOGLIO (Post 104145)
...
The 9mm x 19mm (9Para) shot out from a MP-L (long)
have enough energy @ 200 meters.
But it is not easy to hit the target.

...

?

That's not a sniper rifle, I know. But body hits on a man-sized/shaped target in selective fire mode are really no problems.

PS.: The official designation in Germany is MPL and MPl (MPK and MPk) used by several German police departments (federal and state police), and afaik MP4 (an abbreviation we never used commonly in Berlin).

MGMike 02-05-2013 01:57 PM

Another three-year-old thread comes back to life...

Veto11 is quite right; it is possible to get hits on man-sized silhouettes at 200 meters with a bit of practice (and by observing a few ranging shots). But it's a two-edged sword. The main fault of the gun is that Walther compromised its usefulness with typical Walther target-rifle mentality: the sights are so anti-intuitive and unwieldy (there are actually two sets of sights on the gun -- one a tiny aperture, the other an open arrangement mounted very high with a fussy sight picture) that they confound reflexive shooting at close-range targets --which is, after all, the primary mission of an SMG. Given the fact that the MPL/MPK fire from an open bolt, that level of precision is wasted and counter-productive.

A simple ghost ring rear and a square-post front would have been far more effective.

Just my two pfennigs.

M

P.S. It is little known that the cross-assembly and proofing arrangement between Walther and Manurhin on P.38s, etc. destined for Berlin was extended to include the MPL/MPK. I have seen photos of these guns with Manurhin marks and French proofs, "Made in France".

Veto11 02-05-2013 10:40 PM

I'm sorry but necromancer is my second name. :rolleyes:

Shooting SMGs at distances longer than 50m were, at my time, only practiced at the police academy to learn that it is possible. Later the typical distances were 50 and 25m for the selective firing, down to 10m for the full auto parts of our practice.

I can only say I'm familiar with the MPl and the MP5A3 when talking about SMGs. The Walther has a lot of bugs build in by design. The iron sights, maybe, the open bolt, no. We had to practice a lot with both SMGs, I can not say that one was less accurate than the other one.

Quote:

... they confound reflexive shooting at close-range targets ...
Think you mean quick instinctive, non-aimed shots. Please keep in mind that at the time our Manurhin MPl was "state of the art", we had to practice the (non-) aiming position from the hip... ;)

And yes, the most of our firearms were "Made in France" since 1961 or 1963, I'm not sure about that.
The P1 first generation, The MPl/MPk, the Diana flare gun/tear gas launcher and the Mauser made MG3 were assembled and proofed by Manurhin (the MG42 was converted by them to 7.62x51 too).
Our G3 was really made in France by MAS in license. We still had US made weapons, the 81mm mortar and the 81mm Super Bazooka.

The martial law regulation "no German weapons" was disbanded in 1979 when the first P6 arrived. The teargas and the hand grenades (DM51) were never foreign "assembled" or "proofed" but officially made in Germany.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/bild31.jpg/

Sometimes in the mid seventies, the British Sector Commander Brigadier General (?) inspected the barracked special police of his sector.
With kindly permission by the Polizeihistorische Sammlung Berlin.

MGMike 02-06-2013 07:50 PM

I suppose if you have had enough live-fire training and keep it up continuously, anything is possible. But I have never been able to hit anything from the hip at any distance greater than a few meters without being able to spot the hits and correct my aim. It's a waste of time and ammunition.

In controlled & measured tests, one usually finds that "unaimed" fire (i.e., without sights) produces more misses than hits, compared to the use of sights. This is at 50 or 75 feet. A person trained to use the sights -- if they are good sights-- will get more hits in vital areas quicker and with less expenditure of ammunition than the person who raises the gun to his hip and sprays: if the latter hits the target anywhere on the first burst, it's a miracle. He might better have used that time for a head shot.

Mind you, I am NOT a professional. But I have spent a lot of time with a PACT timer, silhouettes, and both old classic and modern SMGs. And I have watched other shooters, younger and much faster --including some SF guys who know how to shoot-- run the same tests and the results are not much different. All one needs to do is count the holes, and note where they are.

Maybe surprisingly, at the end of the day the gun everybody praises and nobody complains about is the Swedish Carl Gustav M45b.

M

Veto11 02-26-2013 04:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Veto11 (Post 241506)
...

Sometimes in the mid seventies, the British Sector Commander Brigadier General (?) inspected the barracked special police of his sector.
With kindly permission by the Polizeihistorische Sammlung Berlin.


Just wonder where the pictures is gone and try it again.

Veto11 08-21-2014 11:46 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Found my old manual, enjoy it!

Veto11 08-21-2014 11:59 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Found my old manual, enjoy it! 2

Veto11 08-22-2014 12:06 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Found my old manual, enjoy it! 3

File MP014... Page 13, picture (Bild) 14 shows an absolutely no-go, weak hand holding the magazine while shooting. This practice can cause failures to feed and was corrected later.

Veto11 08-22-2014 12:17 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Found my old manual, enjoy it! 4

Veto11 08-22-2014 12:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Found my old manual, enjoy it! 5

Herr Walther 08-22-2014 07:26 AM

Can anyone identify the pistol the man in the khaki uniform is holding?

Veto11 08-22-2014 08:33 AM

Guess you mean the picture in post #16. Manurhin P1.

MGMike 08-22-2014 09:55 AM

The MPL/MPK are not bad guns, but not great ones either. Whoever designed the sights should be taken out and flogged.

M

Veto11 08-22-2014 10:53 AM

Works great if you know your sight. But we had this conversation already I think.

MGMike 08-22-2014 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veto11 (Post 365763)
Works great if you know your sight. But we had this conversation already I think.

Perhaps we did....I can't remember anything any more.

M

P.S. I should have looked at the earlier posts. This thread has been resurrected twice. It started in 2010. And you are right: we DID have this conversation before.

M

BornFighting88 08-22-2014 07:22 PM

Hot Buttered Lugnuts, Tanfo!!!!! I legitimately think my heart just skipped a beat or two. My eyes are GLUED to the screen at these pictures. Where did you happen to come across this??? If you don't mind me asking, that is.

Looks great, big thumbs up, sir!!!!

MGMike 08-27-2014 10:13 PM

There was a closed-bolt variant that Walther developed in a vain attempt to compete with the H&K MP5 (and get rid of a large inventory of MPK/MPL parts sets that had been produced, never assembled, and warehoused awaiting orders that unfortunately did not materialize).

Hopefully Tanfo will post pictures of that one, too.

M

Balogh 04-21-2015 02:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The Swiss are best known for their modesty and their tendency to understate. For this reason, I'm already content with the semi-automatic version of the short barreled MPK. :rolleyes:

No, to be honest: I saw this gun recently and I simply couldn't resist.

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/a...1&d=1429640444

MGMike 04-21-2015 03:40 PM

Balogh: Does your semi-auto fire from the open or closed bolt?

M

Balogh 04-21-2015 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGMike (Post 410401)
Balogh: Does your semi-auto fire from the open or closed bolt?

M

It fires open bolt or "zuschiessend" as we say it in the German language.

MGMike 04-21-2015 05:35 PM

A few prototypes were made that were striker-fired from a closed bolt.

M

Balogh 04-21-2015 07:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MGMike (Post 410422)
A few prototypes were made that were striker-fired from a closed bolt.

M

It seems that the semi-automatic version M90 was more or less recycled from the large inventory of unused MPK parts sets you've mentioned in #28. It's probably Tanfoglio's job to show us a prototype that fires from a closed bolt.

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/a...1&d=1429657268

Veto11 10-03-2015 07:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Two Walther/Manurhin's - MPl and P1.

Balogh 10-04-2015 08:30 AM

5 Attachment(s)
These pictures went around the world in 1972. They show three members of the Bavarian police carrying the Walther MP at the Olympic Village in Munich during the attack by the Palestinian group Black September.

MGMike 10-07-2015 10:03 PM

Interesting that the people who actually used them professionally seemed to prefer the MPL to the MPK, even though it was less compact. Probably better balance and of course more punch with the longer barrel.

M

Veto11 01-18-2016 08:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Two police and one customs officer at West Berlin's Checkpoint Bravo in 1977/78, searching for RAF terrorists.


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