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Old 07-24-2019, 09:46 AM   #11
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I would use the ammo you plan to carry, exclusively, as the judge of reliability.

Some guns will feed round-nose bullets fine, but have issues with hollow-points. Even the design of the hollow-point can make a difference for some guns. For defense, reliability with sub-par bullets is irrelevant.

I probably fired over 200 rounds of HST .45s in my carry gun without a failure before calling it good. I fired a few hundred rounds of other ammo without any failure as well, but the reliability with HSTs was my major concern.

Even revolvers can have issues, but not necessarily the same type. My .357 SP101 doesn't like to fully eject the spent cases of some rounds easily. So while it does always go "bang" when the trigger is pulled, it still requires some testing to confirm your selected ammo doesn't cause any issues.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:08 AM   #12
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I use a mix of qualitative and quantitative.
Qualitative. After clean and inspect how well does it assemble and shoot.
Some will shoot but have uneven performance. Yet same model but different handgun works great right out of the box.
Round counts shoot at least one box fmj just to see how it does.
Then clean lube etc.
If works great then try different jhp.
If ok then just practice with it.
After deem it is ok let others try it out.
This is informal and as I have discovered first hand manufacture process is not hand fit.
So regarding Walther. My first PPS classic worked until round count 450.
Then had a notable distinct failure to feed .
As I purchase with Davidson's I got a replacement PPS classic.
The replacement qualitatively was much "smoother" maybe sweet spot of tolerance stacking.
Shot 50 rounds fmj fed great.
Once I got about 200 rnds had others try it out
Always worked. Experienced or new shooters.
So subjectively I would carry it at about 250. The other one that failed never seemed right to me and eventually failed.
Other makes brand similar too. Some are just put together right others may be off or fail.
Round count I prefer more than less also try fast double taps limp wrist etc.
If good the good to go.
I carry ,the replaced PPS, since 2015. I never carried the first one.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:20 AM   #13
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I just put 11 different brands and designs in my P99c and fuhgettaboutit. I figure one of them is bound to work.
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Old 07-24-2019, 10:46 AM   #14
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Hate to cloud the waters by trying a whole variety of ammo, in an effort to make the gun choke. It's expensive for a start, and if you like the performance of a particular round, no use shooting others. Too, if you do finally produce a hiccup, that event will be in your mind every time you pack the piece.
BTW, Col. Jeff Cooper opined that the failure rate in revos and autos was about the same. Cooper was a 1911 guy. Personally, if a revolver malfs, it's apt to be actually broken, or has dirt under the extractor.
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Old 07-24-2019, 12:53 PM   #15
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Sometime the magazine may be the problem, if not feeding.
PPS classic 7 end magazine. One had misfeed.
I had to remove some flashing from the follower. A small flashing was causing the follower to stick.
So now I disassemble all new magazines ( any manufacturer not just Walther) first time before shooting.
Remove any flashing and manufactures storage shipping oil.
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
Hate to cloud the waters by trying a whole variety of ammo, in an effort to make the gun choke. It's expensive for a start, and if you like the performance of a particular round, no use shooting others. Too, if you do finally produce a hiccup, that event will be in your mind every time you pack the piece.
BTW, Col. Jeff Cooper opined that the failure rate in revos and autos was about the same. Cooper was a 1911 guy. Personally, if a revolver malfs, it's apt to be actually broken, or has dirt under the extractor.
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I think there is a lot of wisdom in this post. I would, however, like to offer a different viewpoint.


Me, personally, I would like to know what my pistol is capable of. While the current climate for ammo availability is quite favorable, that may not always be the case as the past has shown us. A weapon that is only known to be reliable with one type of ammo is potentially of no use should that ammo not be available.



While I've already admitted to doing less than completely thorough testing of a self defense piece in this very thread, I would also say that it brings me great confidence to know that a weapon I'm carrying can eat up a variety of different rounds and provide performance under a broad array of conditions and variables. Were money not a consideration, I would run at least 100 rounds of just about every brand on the shelf in both HP and FMJ.


If I had two weapons, one that I knew was tested with 11 types of ammo and functioned well with 10 types of ammo but did not function well with 1 type of ammo and compared that to a different weapon that had only been tested with 3 types of ammo - all of which functioned well - I would probably still have a higher degree of confidence in the weapon that had the 1 failure but the 10 successes.


I'd also say that Col Coopers experience differs from my own. I had just about every last one of my semi-autos malfunction at one point or another. A couple of them are jam-o-matics regulated to range only use. I only own two revolvers (something I wish to correct), but both of them have never failed to go bang for me - ever! With that said, the Colonel has considerably more experience than me so I respect his opinion - but I would say it is also dealing with a different era of weapons than I'm familiarized with and speaking to.
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:36 AM   #17
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I was joking about 11 different bullets in one magazine.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Angry Hippo View Post
...

My final thoughts are that auto-loaders are inherently unreliable. Revolvers are clearly a superior choice to anyone putting a premium on reliability... Of course you lose capacity and (for me) I find revolvers more difficult to shoot accurately.

...
I cannot completely agree with the statement that revolvers are a superior choice when it comes to reliability.

For decades I have shot over thousand centerfire rounds per month and have found that most problems, in both semi automatic pistols and revolvers, were ammo related. I had premium defensive ammo in a Glock not go off and dissected the round. The primer had no anvil.

The fix was easy, I pulled the slide and continued shooting.

On the other hand, I had experienced that some ammo failures in revolvers render the gun useless in the field. As an example I want to mention Hansen (Prvi Partizan) .357 Magnum, where I had a case separation and the front of the cartridge got pushed into the forcing cone, locking the gun up solidly. Primer blow out can cause the same.

Any mechanical device can and will eventually fail and the statistical probability does not matter as much as the convenient, or inconvenient moment that it does and that is one of the reasons why so many cops carry a back up weapon.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:28 AM   #19
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Andyd_is_PzGren brings up some very valid points about critical failures.

While you've pointed out a few instances where you found that a revolver was not more reliable than a semi-auto, would you say in your experience that your revolvers are less reliable on the whole than your semi-autos?

Or roughly equivalent?

Or would you say that when accounting for all types of malfunctions revolvers experience fewer malfunctions on a round per round basis? (and do you have any thoughts on how much the difference is?)
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Old 07-25-2019, 11:49 AM   #20
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Andyd_is_PzGren .22
Angry Hippo,

I believe that certain semi autos that have a proven track record of reliability are as trustworthy as a revolver in a lethal firefight. I personally found that Glocks are dependable firearms when they have quality ammo and are well kept. Infusing oil into the firing pin channel is a great way to even mess up a Glock. I find the ease of clearing a malfunction in a semi auto more comfortable than in a revolver - despite the common opinion on the internet of just pulling the trigger again with a revolver if it fails to fire, which as I had stated only works most of the time but not in all instances.

I have learnt lessons in a hard life and I have seen enough firefights and failures to stop people despite good COM hits to resort to higher capacity for my own comfort. I have learnt that lesson in a rather unique situation, where I had lived in a gang infested and highly insecure area of Haiti and as the only white man in that neighbourhood stood out like a sore thumb. Once you have a gun and can convince any attacker that you will fight back, you are no longer a sitting duck and scavengers are smelling that and look for easier prey.

Normally I carry a Glock but this morning when I went out, I just pocketed my old S&W M38 bodyguard in this relatively safe neighbourhood that I am in now.
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