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Old 10-22-2018, 07:12 AM   #1
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Why Doesn't Walther Re-introduce The P 38

I just posted a reply addressing this very subject on another thread within this forum. I am really interested in receiving an answer to this inquiry, if not from Walther, than the shooting public. In addition to shooting my PPQ, I have also shot my wife's CZ 75-SP01 and my son's P 38 (manufactured by Mauser circa April 1943). Unlike the polymer platform, steel frame guns have virtually no muzzle flip and discharge recoil. The P 38 is, in my hands, lighter than the CZ; as equally balanced as the CZ; reasonably accurate; and relentlessly reliable. In fact, were the P 38 not a historic firearm -- and I heed the advise as to possible damage over time especially since metallurgy has so drastically improved over the past 75 years -- I would prefer it to both the PPQ and CZ 75. The P 38 design is simple and has influenced other gun manufacturers (e.g., Baretta). I understand that polymer frame firearms are less expensive to manufacture and that the majority of consumers may prefer the weight savings when carried (especially on a daily basis such as law enforcement officers). Yet, I would very much like Germany to offer a steel platform alternative, especially in the P 38 design.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:37 AM   #2
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
The final evolution of the P38 "dropping lock block" design would be the P5.

The complexity of the design priced it well above many "similar" handguns (capacity, barrel length....), MSRP of almost $1000 three decades ago left many unsold.

If Walther were to produce a double-stack/all metal/NO molded or cast parts P5 today, I would expect an MSRP over $2000. They wouldn't sell.

A re-released P5, long barrel, double-stack, 10mm or 357Sig Hunter would be awesome.


I may be the most rabid P5 fan on this forum at the moment.......
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:15 AM   #3
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Walther Should Produce Steel Guns

So, the complexity of the design makes the option cost prohibitive? Why can CZ and Magnum Research sell all steel framed handguns at a fraction of the price that are offered by other U.S. and German manufacturers? Is it the gun design or profit margin? While I admit that I am "in love" with the P38, honestly I would be open to ANY steel platform handgun offered by Walther. I think my initial thread discussion focuses upon two issues. The first is the resurrection of the P38 design; and the second is the offering by a German manufacturer (which includes H&K) of a steel handgun. Incidentally, the Coonan and Magnum Research .357 magnum pistols -- which probably are expensive to manufacture -- sells within the $1,200 to $1,500 price range.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:19 AM   #4
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"honestly I would be open to ANY steel platform handgun offered by Walther"
Hang in there JayBird, the PPK & PPK/s are on the way.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:20 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JayBird View Post
So, the complexity of the design makes the option cost prohibitive? Why can CZ and Magnum Research sell all steel framed handguns at a fraction of the price that are offered by other U.S. and German manufacturers? Is it the gun design or profit margin? While I admit that I am "in love" with the P38, honestly I would be open to ANY steel platform handgun offered by Walther. I think my initial thread discussion focuses upon two issues. The first is the resurrection of the P38 design; and the second is the offering by a German manufacturer (which includes H&K) of a steel handgun. Incidentally, the Coonan and Magnum Research .357 magnum pistols -- which probably are expensive to manufacture -- sells within the $1,200 to $1,500 price range.

That's funny, I had no idea CZ and Magnum Research produce dropping lock block firearms (fires from a locked breech), with fully supported/non tilting barrels.


Please provide a link.
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Old 10-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #6
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Isn't the Beretta 92 a dropping block firearm that fires from a locked breech with a non tilting barrel? I don't know if the chamber on the 92 is fully supported, but that would seem to be a minor problem to correct if it isn't.


OTOH, I'm not sure a P-38 would sell for the price of a Beretta 92.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:07 AM   #7
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Isn't the Beretta 92 a dropping block firearm that fires from a locked breech with a non tilting barrel? I don't know if the chamber on the 92 is fully supported, but that would seem to be a minor problem to correct if it isn't.


OTOH, I'm not sure a P-38 would sell for the price of a Beretta 92.

The front of the Beretta 92 barrel just pokes thru a clearance hole in the slide (best case, go to Beretta Forum and see pics of some that rub in one spot due to poor manufacturing and quality control (I would provide a link, but I get accused of being the link author here when I provide links to Beretta issues). In NO way is the Beretta barrel supported by the frame OR the slide on the muzzle end.


FWIW, the sig pic has a few of my other "all metal" guns, a WC/Beretta 92G Brig Tac is included (a 92 machined to Bill Wilsons "enhanced tolerances"/action tuned/final inspected/test fired at WC).


There's a reason two of my P5s (with a 3.5" barrel), came with 25 meter test targets showing sub 1" C to C 8 rd group, handheld off benchrest.


This accuracy costs, and the average US purchaser WON'T pay the premium.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:09 AM   #8
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DeutschlandUberAlles .22
Also worth noting, Beretta "copying" the Walther dropping lock block design is an often used/inaccurate statement.


Beretta took ONE aspect of the Walther design, downsized it significantly and left the numerous other accuracy enhancing/cost increasing features behind.


These pics show several.....


1) Greatly reduced surface area of working surfaces.


2) TOTAL lack of barrel to slide support bosses (92 barrel lacks the stationary "ears").


3) P5 muzzle is supported by a close tolerance support strut (increased production cost). This allows for tight lockup (at muzzle end) between the frame/slide/barrel.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:18 AM   #9
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MoonWolf .22
Thank you DeutschlandUberAlles for the education. I appreciate it.



The only problem is, I now find myself wanting a P5.
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:30 AM   #10
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Thank you DeutschlandUberAlles for the education. I appreciate it.



The only problem is, I now find myself wanting a P5.

I purchased my first in late July this year, will have one for every day of the week by Christmas.
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