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Old 02-04-2015, 07:48 PM   #1
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A safety? Really?

So I have seen where a few people have been complaining that the ppx has no external safety. Even a few people claim that due to this lack of feature one person in particular actually sold their ppx for this reason and others have kept from purchasing because of the lack of safety. Well i have to say that I as well had to think about it for a night before going back to pick my ppx at my local shop. The truth is and I believe most of us can agree if the safety is switched off the gun will fire. ..does a safety mean I feel safe allowing a child to manipulate my firearm? Answer is no...a big he'll no....so my question is why not just leave the trigger alone and keep your finger off the bang stick and just maybe it will not fire. Why not just treat the weapon as if it's always chambered a round? Then maybe a mistake couldn't take place? I had a safety on my daisy bb gun although never used it...only time the finger was on the hook was when I was planning on unloading on some coke cans.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:51 PM   #2
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People make mistakes. All the time. The introduction of the human element is the single greatest flaw in any design, firearms included.

Just remember that one size does not fit all. If a safety works for you, terrific. If it doesn't, well, be safe ... and please stay well away from me and mine.
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Old 02-04-2015, 09:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by searcher451 View Post
People make mistakes. All the time. The introduction of the human element is the single greatest flaw in any design, firearms included.

Just remember that one size does not fit all. If a safety works for you, terrific. If it doesn't, well, be safe ... and please stay well away from me and mine.
I have to say that's the first I've laughed all day...been a rough one for me but I will keep the distance...but may I ask what makes a safety any different from just plain ole being aware of your actions? I've had em on past fire arms but truth is I've never loaded a firearm and then proceded to play with it...upon loading it is then wrapped in a proper holster with the trigger completely covered ...maybe you could enlighten me as to when a safety would be used in real world situations? Would appreciate any and all insight...
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolabrian83 View Post
I have to say that's the first I've laughed all day...

Yeah, it's a laugher. I guess nobody has ever forgotten to engage the safety of their particular favorite firearm when done shooting/cleaning/loading etc. Just as nobody has ever forgotten to point their firearm in a safe direction when doing the above three things.

Safety starts with the individual, and like it or not, people have been unintentionally shot with PPKs, 1911s, etc etc.

If a gun was truly idiot proof, no human would have ever seen it, let alone built it.

And in a time of instant gratification, not many stop to think that what you do in the next 5 seconds may just change your life forever, and not always for the best.

KNOW where the barrel is pointed.
KNOW if there's a chambered round.
KNOW that if you leave a loaded gun lying about, someone will pick it up and touch the trigger.
KNOW that a gun is loaded until YOU verify that it's not.

And last...KNOW that a gun is ONLY as safe as YOU are with it. The gun will NOT fire itself...it takes a conscious and deliberate or unintended manipulation of the trigger to fire it.
Sheer stupidity also will bite one's ass.

Check this out:
Spring of 2013, a guy I knew of, but wasn't particularly friendly with took his Glock...racked the round from the chamber, THEN dropped the mag. Then he spun the damned thing on his finger like an old west gunslinger.....and promptly splattered his brains on the wall behind him. A few of his friends were on there way to meet him with the intentions of going out for dinner and some drinks...imagine walking into your friend's home, blood and gray matter dripping from the wall, smell of gunpowder in the air, and a still twitching body..

Unfortunately for ole dude, this is exactly what happened as related to my wife's cousin, who was one of the people on the scene to meet up with the guy prior to the dinner that sadly never occurred....

Would a safety have saved his stupid ass? Maybe, maybe not. Anyone who is utterly stupid as to treat a gun like a toy may or may not even use the safety were one present.


Now searcher has stated several times that people who carry a PPQ for example aren't safe and he doesn't want them around. Fine by me....I'd really rather not be in the presence of someone who is terrified of someone who's carrying one of the best handguns in the world, in what I feel is one of the better types of holsters..specifically, my Theis IWB. Now, if i ran into him on the street, while twirling my PPQ, Clint eastwood style, then yeah, I could see accept his concern.

Everyone has their preference, but don't insinuate that myself or others here like me are unsafe simply because we carry a PPQ, round chambered, in a great holster that simply will not allow the trigger to be manipulated while carrying. And it's not as if I'm always taking it out, playing with it, being careless, or being a general ass with it.

If you see my PPQ in public, we're either at a range, you're an LEO who just pulled me over and I'm handing it over per request, or....someone is attacking and I'm on defense.

In other words, I'm no less safe than 100% of the rest of John and Jane Q Public, and I'll bet I'm safer by far than most of them.

When I carry, I do not forget that the power to take someone's life rests on my right hip, a mere draw and squeeze away. Just like driving a powerful Mustang...one very slight screwup, and someone can die.

It doesn't pay to be complacent, stupid, or careless. I've went to quite a few funerals of those were some or all of those things.

We good?



EDIT: links added.

http://www.kmzu.com/brookfield-shoot...rs-accidental/

http://www.linncountyleader.com/arti...News/130329350
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:15 AM   #5
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Who is complaining that the PPX has no safety ... and why? I'm asking because, IIRC, the PPX has three safeties: a trigger safety, a firing-pin safety and a disconnector safety.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:39 AM   #6
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Ppl making radical statements about lack of manual safeties are usually gun board trolls, some without any hands on knowledge about firearms. I engaged in a "discussion" with one of them elsewhere a while back and it ended with the guy stating he would never ride with someone who carries his Glock with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. WTF?

As for manual safeties: Government buyers, usually police, try to acquire the least expensive and least likely to result in litigation handgun (read: accident). And still most of them get handguns without manual safeties. Manual safety doesn't seem to rank high with the most safety minded buyers there are and common sense wins. I read about several incidents where LEOs under assault failed to disengage the manual safety and were killed.

I personally am against manual safeties. I had a "pre-B" CZ75 and even during low stress drills at the range I forgot to disengage the safety quite a few times.

Speaking of things: What I would never again do without is a bolt locking drop safety on a gun. The Czech police for some time kept their Communist made CSSR "pre-B" CZ75s without bolt safeties and several ppl were killed because of it. Guy walks his dog, officer Hamfist drops gun, guy dead. These, btw, had manual safeties ...
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:12 AM   #7
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I could've been killed by a guy only a year or so older than I am.

When I was in high school, freshman year, IIRC, my dad and I were deer hunting. We walked down to the road to meet the two folks who were hunting on the land that adjoins my father's property. One of them, the guy only a bit older than myself, climbed up into the bed of his dad's truck. As he stepped over the tailgate, his foot slipped. He dropped his Winchester .30-30 and when it landed, it fired, and had I been only a matter of inches to my left, the slug would've have went in or through me after it penetrated the tailgate.

Now the Model 94 Winchester doesn't have what is considered a safety in the exact name of the word, but it does have a hammer position where if will not allow the trigger to fall if dropped or pulled. I know this because I carried the same model of rifle for many years hunting deer.

THAT is why I place no faith in a manual safety, but rather constant knowledge of what you're doing with your gun. And for god's sake, you don't climb on stuff with a rifle. Learned that when I was still plinking with BB guns. Must've been..oh...1983, '84...

So no particular offense to anyone, but those who rely ONLY a manual safety to cover their ass are people I don't want around me.
It's fine to use it as intended, but don't rely on it as a substitute for safe handling and trigger discipline.

Yours truly...a "near miss" survivor.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:24 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by skulls View Post
... the guy stating he would never ride with someone who carries his Glock with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked. WTF? ...
I personally don't find that to be bad advice, given the number of accidental discharges from those who carry a Glock, including the so-called professionals.

A conversation in another thread is apropos to this one. I would point out that Universal Export's observation here ...

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/g...-you-make.html

... are spot-on in my book. Your view may vary.

One size does not fit all. Stay safe.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:19 PM   #9
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skulls .22
I don't know anything about a wave of accidents with Glocks. Accidents happened since there are firearms and it's practically always behavioral. Manual safeties are no insurance, such guns go off all the time.

When I was in the military a gate guard accidentally discharged his Steyr AUG into the roof of the gate. And those got manual safeties. These guys were standing around in shifts on guard duty for eight months. That's all they ever did. Of course extreme bordedom set in and he started playing with the safety and trigger. Was supposed to be carried with no round in the chamber on top of that. Behavioral and systemic failure no manual safety can ever fix.

Only thing that can prevent accidents is training. I am all for lax gun laws, but making ppl jump through silly hoops, but not force them to train once they get a permit (or whatever the system is where you happen to live, dear reader), is BS. Every adult without a record should be able to buy a gun, but if you do so you must show up at least every half year at a competition or training course. Voila: plummeting accident rates, no need for useless manual safeties.
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:03 PM   #10
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Glocks have hammers?

That's ok....but I expect a .45 Walther now, for real.

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