Rescinding my belief in Magguts for PPS M2 :( - WaltherForums
WaltherForums
 

Go Back   WaltherForums > Walther Firearms > PPS

Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2018, 07:36 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 129
wturri78 .22
Rescinding my belief in Magguts for PPS M2 :(

A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
MMA10mm, Redcat94 and Cause like this.
wturri78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Register
Old 11-22-2018, 08:50 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 23
xl_target .22
Did you hear back from Magguts?
xl_target is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 10:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
labloverva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 211
labloverva .22
Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!
Scouts10 likes this.
__________________
Walther PPS M2,
Dawson Precision Fiber Optic front sight
Talon Grips
XDM 4.5" 9mm with Talon grips
SA custom shop 1911 .45
labloverva is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 11-22-2018, 11:05 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 129
wturri78 .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by xl_target View Post
Did you hear back from Magguts?
q

All they said was they can't replicate the issue. They'll refund me.

Hard to believe the same issue across two different spring kits and two different magazines is just a fluke.
wturri78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 11:05 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 129
wturri78 .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by labloverva View Post
Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!
LOL. But the Magguts turns your scenario into ten rounds!

If only it worked ...
wturri78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 11:13 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Indian Springs, AL
Posts: 8,774
1917-1911M .38
It seems that by comparing the follower in the 6 round mag to the others you might be able to determine the difference. The 8 round follower is either tilting down and binding or is being forced further down the length of the mag and is catching on something. I suppose the spring is installed properly. The video shows the problem clearly. Are the legs on all of the followers the same length, shape, width, spread? Is there a change in the design of the inner box of the mag as 7 and 8 rounds press the follower further down?

So in the 6 round system you cannot make the rounds or follower go nose down but it regularly occurs in the extended mags. Should be some reason upon careful examination. 1917
1917-1911M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 01:10 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 265
MMA10mm .22
It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wturri78 View Post
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
__________________
P-38 (byf & cyq), P-88C, TPH, P-22, PPQ M2 Navy SD, PPS M2 LE
MMA10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 10:06 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 27
gman1000 .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by wturri78 View Post
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
I had the same failure as well. The follower would get stuck and the rounds would just move freely in the mag. I returned the spring kit. Definitely a design flaw.
gman1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2018, 12:35 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 129
wturri78 .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMA10mm View Post
It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be! <img src="https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

Quote:
Originally Posted by wturri78 View Post
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8
Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon &#x1f61b;
MMA10mm likes this.
wturri78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2018, 06:09 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 265
MMA10mm .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by wturri78 View Post
Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon &#x1f61b;
I'd say the magazine, for a couple reasons:

First, it is a cheaper way to manufacture the magazine, making one mag body and three floorplates to adjust capacity.

Second, it is potentially less reliable in the factory set up. If the metal body extended lower to the bottom of the floorplate, the factory spring and follower would have less chance of catching, and also, banging the floorplate hard, in the original configuration, creates a higher chance of the baseplate separating, whereas with the longer body I feel they should have used, it would be nearly impossible...

Finally, with the design Walther went with, after-market companies are less-supported You're situation is a prime example...

A lot of this is not Walther's worry, and what is their worry is pretty low-risk for them, so I get it. But it is sad to see the company which spared no expense to bring us amazing pistols like the P-5 and P-88 has fallen to being a more-refined version of Glock...

MagGuts may be a little at fault for not designing their follower to be tapered more along the edges, so nothing would catch, but it's hard to design for every variable, especially when they have no control over what Walther does...
__________________
P-38 (byf & cyq), P-88C, TPH, P-22, PPQ M2 Navy SD, PPS M2 LE
MMA10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   WaltherForums > Walther Firearms > PPS


Search tags for this page

mag guts for walther pps m2

,

magguts kits for walther pps m2

,

magguts pps m2 2

,

magguts pps m2 problems

,

magguts pps m2 review

,

pps magguts

,

walther pps m2 8 round magazine

,

walther pps m2 magguts

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.