WaltherForums

WaltherForums (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/)
-   PPS (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pps/)
-   -   Rescinding my belief in Magguts for PPS M2 :( (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pps/113528-rescinding-my-belief-magguts-pps-m2.html)

wturri78 11-15-2018 06:36 AM

Rescinding my belief in Magguts for PPS M2 :(
 
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8

xl_target 11-22-2018 07:50 PM

Did you hear back from Magguts?

labloverva 11-22-2018 09:10 PM

Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!

wturri78 11-22-2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xl_target (Post 1162540)
Did you hear back from Magguts?

q

All they said was they can't replicate the issue. They'll refund me.

Hard to believe the same issue across two different spring kits and two different magazines is just a fluke.

wturri78 11-22-2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by labloverva (Post 1162548)
Put 8 rounds in the mag. Rack the slide and put one in the chamber.
Remove the mag and add 1 round. Insert into the gun.
There's your 9 rounds. Works perfectly for me!!

LOL. But the Magguts turns your scenario into ten rounds!

If only it worked ...

1917-1911M 11-22-2018 10:13 PM

It seems that by comparing the follower in the 6 round mag to the others you might be able to determine the difference. The 8 round follower is either tilting down and binding or is being forced further down the length of the mag and is catching on something. I suppose the spring is installed properly. The video shows the problem clearly. Are the legs on all of the followers the same length, shape, width, spread? Is there a change in the design of the inner box of the mag as 7 and 8 rounds press the follower further down?

So in the 6 round system you cannot make the rounds or follower go nose down but it regularly occurs in the extended mags. Should be some reason upon careful examination. 1917

MMA10mm 11-23-2018 12:10 PM

It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by wturri78 (Post 1161016)
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8


gman1000 11-24-2018 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wturri78 (Post 1161016)
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8

I had the same failure as well. The follower would get stuck and the rounds would just move freely in the mag. I returned the spring kit. Definitely a design flaw.

wturri78 11-24-2018 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMA10mm (Post 1162650)
It's the interface between the follower and the bottom edge of the magazine. The 7-rd and 8-rd magazines do not have longer steel bodies; the plastic floorplate is simply longer and hollowed out. Thus, when the follower goes down deeper, as with the Mag-Guts, the opportunity for the follower to get caught under the lip where the metal body's side-wall ends, is causing this. Definitely a design flaw of the magazine.

On another note, wturri, if you are not a radio-show host or voice-over guy, you should be! <img src="https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />

Quote:

Originally Posted by wturri78 (Post 1161016)
A while ago there was a thread asking about the reliability of the +1 magazine spring kits from Magguts and I was pretty insistent that my experience was good. And it still is, for the 6 round magazine kit ONLY.

I haven't tried the 7, but the 8 is a total fail for me. The first kit did not work, so they promptly exchanged it -- good customer service! -- and the second kit did the same thing. I installed it into a brand new extra 8 round magazine and it did exactly the same thing.

Here's the gist -- the metal follower they provide is able to tip forward/downward under the nose of the bullet in a way that the factory follower doesn't. And if the top round "noses down" in this way, the rest below it do too, and the follower gets stuck at the very bottom of the magazine. Stripping off that top cartridge leaves the rest of the rounds rattling around loose inside the magazine. A good smack to the bottom of the magazine will release the spring and reseat the rounds properly, except for the one time it clearly didn't when I was firing it. That resulted in a misfeed.

It only happens when the magazine is loaded to capacity with 9 rounds. But the "nosing down" issue can arise on its own when carrying the gun with a round in the chamber. I first discovered this when I went to the range and dropped out the magazine to switch out my hollow points. I can only presume that if I'd tried to fire in that state, I'd have had another misfeed.

Anyways, two different spring kits in two different magazines, exactly the same problem in both. Magguts will refund me and says they cannot replicate the problem, but it's at least clear to me that I will not be using their kits in my extended magazines.

(since discovering this, I've tried everything I could to force the+1 6 round spring kit to have the same problem, and I can't. So I still consider that one reliable).

This video should illustrate the problem. I sent the video to Magguts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJR2LEDGkjMtqNqN8


Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon &#x1f61b;

MMA10mm 11-25-2018 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wturri78 (Post 1162864)
Good points!

So is it a flaw of the magazine or the Magguts product designed to work with the factory magazine as is?

I'd say the latter.

I'm launching my radio show soon &#x1f61b;

I'd say the magazine, for a couple reasons:

First, it is a cheaper way to manufacture the magazine, making one mag body and three floorplates to adjust capacity.

Second, it is potentially less reliable in the factory set up. If the metal body extended lower to the bottom of the floorplate, the factory spring and follower would have less chance of catching, and also, banging the floorplate hard, in the original configuration, creates a higher chance of the baseplate separating, whereas with the longer body I feel they should have used, it would be nearly impossible...

Finally, with the design Walther went with, after-market companies are less-supported You're situation is a prime example...

A lot of this is not Walther's worry, and what is their worry is pretty low-risk for them, so I get it. But it is sad to see the company which spared no expense to bring us amazing pistols like the P-5 and P-88 has fallen to being a more-refined version of Glock...

MagGuts may be a little at fault for not designing their follower to be tapered more along the edges, so nothing would catch, but it's hard to design for every variable, especially when they have no control over what Walther does...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.