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RoanokeReloader 03-22-2019 09:00 PM

I cannot tell whether the extractor was the issue vs the loose mag and interference affected my double feeds, which were slide open with empty brass loose in chamber with new round jammed trying to feed leaving slide partially open. Had to drop mag, close slide, rack out empty round. Used factory 17lb recoil spring, Sprinco recoil red and white spring system, and SSGR 13# 1911 5” flat wire springs all with similar double feed frequencies using Fed 150 Syntech and 132 power factor 124gr reloads. None since adjusting extractor, but only 500 rounds. I need few thousand rounds with no flaws before calling this good, otherwise just statistics. Random bouncing of loose mags could still be an issue.

My ejected rounds all hit back of ejection port window based on brass marks there, Walther Arms confirms this is what they see on Q5 SF they have seen, marked ejector hits case on the inside tip of the ejector, seems to be at same ejector angle and profile contacting case vs my PPQ, which has no problems. PPQ also show similar brass markings on the back wall of the port.

RoanokeReloader 03-22-2019 09:12 PM

Separate possible issue is I noted stepped ring marks on fired brass from Q5 SF, also bulge above base measuring 0.394”, not sure if I have a tight or short chamber, but will not go into battery on a couple of out of spec Win reload cases 0.360” length (normal spec 0.354” max). See stepped rings and bulge also on low power Fed 150 Syntech loads. Never saw this with PPQ.

balance 03-22-2019 11:55 PM

Quote:

I cannot tell whether the extractor was the issue vs the loose mag and interference affected my double feeds, which were slide open with empty brass loose in chamber with new round jammed trying to feed leaving slide partially open.
Again, I don't see how a loose mag could cause a double feed malfunction. Please explain what you mean exactly by "empty brass loose in chamber". Do you mean that there is still empty brass that hasn't been completely extracted from the chamber, or do you mean that there is still empty brass that hasn't been ejected from the ejection port?

A double feed malfunction normally involves a live round from the mag trying to feed into the chamber either after a live round was already fed in it, or an empty casing has not been fully extracted from it. Normally, nothing is "loose" in this scenario.

No amount of friction from the magazine could cause the casing to stick in the chamber, or the extractor to lose hold of the rim of the cartridge/casing. If the slide moved far enough to the rear to pick up the next cartridge, then it moved far enough to the rear to eject the empty casing out of the ejection port. Failure to extract malfunctions usually cause double feed malfunctions, unless the failure occurs on the last round in the mag. It is possible to get a double feed malfunction if you incorrectly clear a stovepipe or failure to eject malfunction.

jsglano12 03-23-2019 11:38 PM

Im really sorry to hear about this and as your video goes it surely looks like a legit problem, but could it be a factory manufacturing issue ? I just have not seen this anywhere else or any other videos, reports etc, except from this forum.

RoanokeReloader 03-24-2019 09:05 AM

"
Quote:

Originally Posted by balance (Post 1187038)
Again, I don't see how a loose mag could cause a double feed malfunction. Please explain what you mean exactly by "empty brass loose in chamber". Do you mean that there is still empty brass that hasn't been completely extracted from the chamber, or do you mean that there is still empty brass that hasn't been ejected from the ejection port?

A double feed malfunction normally involves a live round from the mag trying to feed into the chamber either after a live round was already fed in it, or an empty casing has not been fully extracted from it. Normally, nothing is "loose" in this scenario.

No amount of friction from the magazine could cause the casing to stick in the chamber, or the extractor to lose hold of the rim of the cartridge/casing. If the slide moved far enough to the rear to pick up the next cartridge, then it moved far enough to the rear to eject the empty casing out of the ejection port. Failure to extract malfunctions usually cause double feed malfunctions, unless the failure occurs on the last round in the mag. It is possible to get a double feed malfunction if you incorrectly clear a stovepipe or failure to eject malfunction.

[/I]"

Balance, was just as I said. Fired brass in chamber, loose, can tilt the gun and it moves around, next round being picked up by slide bar/breechface, but new round not touching the back of the fired case, instead underneath it. Middle of mag on average. Never had something like this before myself, either. Will take a photo if I see it again.

My current theory is that slide goes back enough to pick up next round, but fired case doesn't get fully ejected because not enough force going back. Note that I am using reduced powered loads and springs typical for speed shooting competition. Fired case gets free of extractor, but doesn't clear the gun, or bounces off the back of the ejection port and surprisingly back into the chamber. Above my level of understanding. Sounds magical, until you've seen 8 of them identical.

Never had a case not extract, as in jammed in the chamber and extractor won't pick it up. In above scenario, have to lock back slide, drop mag and either jiggle out round, or close slide and rack it out (yes, bad on extractor, but this is in the middle of timed competition so you are just trying to get the dang thing running, and racking out a double feed is otherwise a pretty standard reflex). Dropping slide picks up the previously loose case and ejects it just fine if racking it out.

Interesting problem, but if different recoil spring, ammo or extractor tweak fixed it, doesn't matter, I'm back in action. Thanks for your interest.

Misfire 03-24-2019 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoanokeReloader (Post 1187272)
Will take a photo if I see it again.

Please take full videos of it from different angles with flashlight on, if possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoanokeReloader (Post 1187272)
Interesting problem, but if different recoil spring, ammo or extractor tweak fixed it, doesn't matter, I'm back in action. Thanks for your interest.

I think it does matter a lot, because it may affect not just you but everyone else who buys a Q5 SF in the near future (like me). :) So even if you're now back in action, exact details on what happened and what modifications you have done before and after the malfunctions still matters to everywhere else...

I'm sure there's gotta be some baby issues with the initial manufacturing of this new hand gun, and I'd like to hear about as many potential issues as possible so I can thoroughly test them myself before my upcoming 30-day trial period ends.

keithwhite100 03-25-2019 10:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I'm having the same issue and here is a picture. I can a lot more detail later just don't have time now. Four jams all the same of 200 shots. Seems to jam only after first shot of mag loaded with 10 rounds. Running 115 grain loded with 3.6 grain tight group, been using this load for a long time now. Have SpringCo recoil spring low power factor (white). Same issue with this and the factory spring. Q5 SF Pro, the mag hitting the slide, is not the issue, I looked. Jams on three different mags, all the same.

imaoldfart 03-25-2019 11:30 AM

Thanks for the picture Ken. Can you set up a camera to capture one of these events in super slow motion? :D Couldn't help it, had to ask. Would love to see this in slow motion.

In any event, the cartridge is still partially in the chamber. So, did it just make it that far and the claw slipped off? Or, did it make it almost all the way and bounce back forward? Or, crap, IDK.

Bottom line is, it didn't get ejected. So, did it actually make it back for enough for the ejector to hit the rim of the case? I'm thinking NOT. WHY?

How bout this, coat rear of all the cases with machinist dye. Go shoot them puppies. Afterwords, look at the rear of each case to see where it hit the ejector. THEN, if you are lucky enough to have another failure (like in your picture), examine THAT case to see if there is a mark left by the ejector, and if so, is it as deep as the other cases.......

Also, does the case that hung up (didn't eject) fit into and drop free from the chamber?

In all honesty, I'm thinking the extractor 'claw' may be slipping off the rim of the case, as someone else mentioned earlier.

This poop is really hard to diagnose without said hic-upin' pistol in hand to scrutinize.

keithwhite100 03-25-2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imaoldfart (Post 1187438)
Thanks for the picture Ken. Can you set up a camera to capture one of these events in super slow motion? :D Couldn't help it, had to ask. Would love to see this in slow motion.

In any event, the cartridge is still partially in the chamber. So, did it just make it that far and the claw slipped off? Or, did it make it almost all the way and bounce back forward? Or, crap, IDK.

Bottom line is, it didn't get ejected. So, did it actually make it back for enough for the ejector to hit the rim of the case? I'm thinking NOT. WHY?

How bout this, coat rear of all the cases with machinist dye. Go shoot them puppies. Afterwords, look at the rear of each case to see where it hit the ejector. THEN, if you are lucky enough to have another failure (like in your picture), examine THAT case to see if there is a mark left by the ejector, and if so, is it as deep as the other cases.......

Also, does the case that hung up (didn't eject) fit into and drop free from the chamber?

In all honesty, I'm thinking the extractor 'claw' may be slipping off the rim of the case, as someone else mentioned earlier.

This poop is really hard to diagnose without said hic-upin' pistol in hand to scrutinize.


It's Keith, but thanks for the input. Yes the case will slip out no issue. I have to drop the Mag, and then rack the slide and the shell pops right out. I love the idea of marking the shell and will do so as I'm going shooting in 30 minutes and will pop off 150 or so to make it happen again. I agree I don't think the claw is holding on. I have a Q5 plastic and the claw is about .002 inch deeper than the SF, is this the issue, don't know but its the only difference I can find on the ejector claw. I shoot range cases and was thinking it might be a particular case make and two of the five defects were the same but the others all different, compared specifications and measurements of the failures and could not see any real difference to all the other crap I shoot.

Taking a slow motion would be great but I'm on the range, not going to happen today, lol


Kind Regards, Keith

imaoldfart 03-25-2019 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keithwhite100 (Post 1187450)
It's Keith,

.

Sorry Keith, I'm really old and was dropped on my head when I was a baby.


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