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Old 07-29-2019, 07:22 AM   #171
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Liggett .22
You guys are getting to wrapped up in science. There's a reason that most pistol competiors shooting 9mm use 147gr bullets. Also why Federal came out with thier new Syntec 147gr. poly coated rounds. They're softer shooting!

I handload to 130PF with coated 147gr. FP's and VV320. In our testing last year at our local range with 3 different people shooting the same pistol, the VV 320 147's came in softer than ones loaded with TG, PP, and 160's loaded with Sport Pistol. All were loaded to the same 130PF.
However, if you BUY match ammo, you should definately try some 147gr. Fed Syntec. One of my buds gave me 10 to try and over the chrono, it ran 930FPS with even LESS recoil than my handloads. I'd like to find out what powder they use!
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:15 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liggett View Post
You guys are getting to wrapped up in science. There's a reason that most pistol competiors shooting 9mm use 147gr bullets. Also why Federal came out with thier new Syntec 147gr. poly coated rounds. They're softer shooting!

I handload to 130PF with coated 147gr. FP's and VV320. In our testing last year at our local range with 3 different people shooting the same pistol, the VV 320 147's came in softer than ones loaded with TG, PP, and 160's loaded with Sport Pistol. All were loaded to the same 130PF.
However, if you BUY match ammo, you should definately try some 147gr. Fed Syntec. One of my buds gave me 10 to try and over the chrono, it ran 930FPS with even LESS recoil than my handloads. I'd like to find out what powder they use!
Wow, at 40 cents each they should feel soft, I can reload for less than 10 cents, I'll have to leave the soft stuff to the rich and shooters that shoot for Federal. My guess is that they use a slower burn rate powder. Tight Group has a very quick burn rate, one of the fastest.

Still cheap, Keith
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:37 AM   #173
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upsman .22
Federal syntec 150 gr action pistol is only 21 cent to 23 cent a round (Brownells).Very accurate and soft shooting,clean also,no barrel fouling.Big plus is no wasted time reloaded,that time can now be used for practicing!!
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:45 PM   #174
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Federal syntec 150 gr action pistol is only 21 cent to 23 cent a round (Brownells).Very accurate and soft shooting,clean also,no barrel fouling.Big plus is no wasted time reloaded,that time can now be used for practicing!!
I shoot twice per week, 200 rounds per session. At an additional 10 cents per round that's 40 bucks per week, you following me here, Or 160 per month.

I can load, 500 rounds per hour, which will save me 50 bucks. I'll keep loading, leaving you guys more bullets to buy, 😃

Feeling cheaper than ever, Keith
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:50 PM   #175
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keithwhite100 .22
115 gr data vs. 147 gr data

I shot my loaded 147 gr 9mm loads today, what a great day to shoot. I have posted the data below along with the 115 gr charts I developed last week.

Summary,

1. I had no issue shooting either of the sets of data (200 rounds total) of loads. No failure to extract or failure to eject.

2. in shooting the 147 rounds I used the White SpringCo spring for the lower three points and the Yellow for the last two points.

3. On the 147 loads I went below and above the recommended powder weight by .2 gr on the lower and upper end.

4. The PF range is lower for the 115 gr loads, it's a math thing.

5. There is a difference in felt recoil at the same PF for the two bullet types. This is to say shooting a 115 gr bullet at a 130 PF has considerable more recoil than the 147 gr bullet at the same PF. So time in the barrel does have an impact on recoil (muzzle flip). But hey, all you guys that have been shooting for years knew that.

6. Shooting the 147 gr bullets loaded with 3 gr of Tight Group powder felt like a dream. Velocity around 900 ft/ sec and PF of 130. It seems to be a sweet spot in the Q5 SF to me. The standard deviation of velocity at this load was the lowest of all the test at only 6 ft/sec. For some reason a few of the added SD text points added to the charts below won't show up, but I wanted to point this out.

7, The longer I shot a string of 20 rounds for each test the last 5 or so shots slowed up a little in velocity. I contributed this to heating up of the barrel, but the data was good enough for what I was doing.


Someone stated that a 147 gr Federal load had a velocity of around 900 Ft/sec and shot very smooth, that might be the sweet spot.

My nest test is to load more 147 gr loads with 3 gr of power to verify reliability, The cases were ejected ok but I'm glad I had the white spring. It would be great if SpringCo even had a spring one step below the white? Do you, if so, I want to try it out.

I also want to load some 115 gr loads with a PF of around 122 and do a direct head to head test on muzzle flip to the 147 loads with a PF of 130. I will have a couple of shooters try this to see which they feel is best.

Enjoy the graphs below.

Getting closer to my happy spot, Keith
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 147velvspowder.jpg (60.0 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 147PFvsPowderpng.jpg (66.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg 115Velvs Powder.jpg (67.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 115PFvsPowder.jpg (65.8 KB, 9 views)
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:19 AM   #176
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Misfire .22
Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
2. in shooting the 147 rounds I used the White SpringCo spring for the lower three points and the Yellow for the last two points.
According to Sprinco, you should have used the yellow recoil spring for the lower three and the red for the higher two.

I’m thinking that you should use the strongest recoil spring that you can use without having cycling problems to get the least amount of recoil. To help combat that slide slamming back with F = m * v / t.

I tried the yellow recoil spring with some 115 gr Blazer (Federal) factory ammo the other day and that made my slide slam back like crazy (very strong recoil). I’m going to try that same ammo with the red spring this week.

Btw, am I just bad at installing those Sprinco guide rods with those recoil springs or is it just really difficult to make that guide rod align with the hole to make it slide in properly? It seems I have to realign that spring like 5 times before the guide rod slides into the hole properly and can be seated....?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
5. There is a difference in felt recoil at the same PF for the two bullet types. This is to say shooting a 115 gr bullet at a 130 PF has considerable more recoil than the 147 gr bullet at the same PF. So time in the barrel does have an impact on recoil (muzzle flip). But hey, all you guys that have been shooting for years knew that.
Love it when science explains our reality, and can show what factors actually matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
6. Shooting the 147 gr bullets loaded with 3 gr of Tight Group powder felt like a dream. Velocity around 900 ft/ sec and PF of 130. It seems to be a sweet spot in the Q5 SF to me.
Yeah. I’m buying 3000 rounds of that (reman w/ CCI primer) from a local guy to use for the next matches (next one on Saturday). Going to use the Sprinco yellow recoil spring and all the other springs (including yours).

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
7. The longer I shot a string of 20 rounds for each test the last 5 or so shots slowed up a little in velocity. I contributed this to heating up of the barrel, but the data was good enough for what I was doing.
I’ve heard guys talking about people being disqualified for failing the minimum PF when using polymer-coated bullets at the chrono test at the end of a match on a hot day. Because of a hot gun and a hot day. Hmm... I’ll bring a cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
My nest test is to load more 147 gr loads with 3 gr of power to verify reliability, The cases were ejected ok but I'm glad I had the white spring. It would be great if SpringCo even had a spring one step below the white? Do you, if so, I want to try it out.
Could you try with the yellow spring? It’s supposed to work and feel better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
I also want to load some 115 gr loads with a PF of around 122 and do a direct head to head test on muzzle flip to the 147 loads with a PF of 130. I will have a couple of shooters try this to see which they feel is best.
Would be cool with slomo camera footage and using supported bench rest!

Last edited by Misfire; 07-30-2019 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:10 AM   #177
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Liggett .22
No question that the 147's have a softer feel than the 115's. As you mentioned, it's been known for years. If you want something even softer than TG at 130 PF, try some VV 320. I load my 130+ PF @ 1.148 with 3.2 of VV N-320 CCI primer. It's consistent PF thru at least 4 of our 5" 1911's. I guess I'm going to have to shorten my OAL or ream the SF chamber. I'll know once the SF gets here end of this week.
I've never seen anyone fail chrono at a match with handloaded coated bullets, but I've seen and heard of many failing with Factory. It looks like Federal hit the sweet spot with their 150 gr Syntec. Since I can produce consistent ammo for about half of the Syntec cost that is VERY close to the Syntec, I'll keep handloading for myself and Wife. For someone that doesn't handload, the Syntec should be purrrfect!
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:53 AM   #178
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keithwhite100 .22
Btw, am I just bad at installing those Sprinco guide rods with those recoil springs or is it just really difficult to make that guide rod align with the hole to make it slide in properly? It seems I have to realign that spring like 5 times before the guide rod slides into the hole properly and can be seated....?



Ok I have solved your spring install issues. Purchase a General Pick Tool set liked pictured below, Home Depot has for less than 10 bucks. Also makes a great add to your range bag.

Hold slide in left hand, place the SpringCo unit into gun. Hold in place with thumb. Using curved pick lift rod into guide hole. ABC, 123, takes 5 seconds.

I've been struggling all this time also so thanks for the push to solve this little annoyance in life.

That's what she said, Keith
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0730190942_1564494744367.jpg (94.9 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 0730190942a_1564494760295.jpg (61.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 0730190943_1564494770829.jpg (70.1 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 0730190943a_1564494779826.jpg (63.3 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 0730190955_1564494966271.jpg (104.0 KB, 18 views)
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Last edited by keithwhite100; 07-30-2019 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Added picture
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:04 PM   #179
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upsman .22
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Originally Posted by keithwhite100 View Post
I shoot twice per week, 200 rounds per session. At an additional 10 cents per round that's 40 bucks per week, you following me here, Or 160 per month.

I can load, 500 rounds per hour, which will save me 50 bucks. I'll keep loading, leaving you guys more bullets to buy, 😃

Feeling cheaper than ever, Keith
Thanks for reloading,I need plenty of Syntec to buy because I am shooting while you are reloading. I shoot 2 to 3 times on the weekdays and every Saturday and Sunday. Thats about 1500 to 2000 rds a week. Can't get better if I dont practice! Sometimes I might have to skip a week to let my hands heal.
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Old 07-30-2019, 02:19 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Misfire View Post

Btw, am I just bad at installing those Sprinco guide rods with those recoil springs or is it just really difficult to make that guide rod align with the hole to make it slide in properly? It seems I have to realign that spring like 5 times before the guide rod slides into the hole properly and can be seated....?

Let me help you out here a little bit. What I do is use a guide rod for my guide rod Well sort of. I'll use a BIC ball point pen or a 6" or so, wooden or plastic dowel that is the appropriate size (1/4" or maybe 5/16", can't remember) to fit inside the recoil spring.

I'll stuff this dowel into the hole in the end of the slide, then slide the recoil spring onto the dowel, then insert the Sprinco guide rod into the end of the spring, as usual, and start pushing the Sprinco rod forward, pushing the wooden dowel out as the Sprinco is inserted. You may have to use your finger and thumb at the point the two guide rods meet as your pushing to keep everything aligned while your pushing.

Once you figure out this technique, its a friggin' piece of cake.
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