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-   PPK/S .22LR, New Production by Umarex, 2013 or later (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppk-s-22lr-new-production-umarex-2013-later/)
-   -   PPK/S .22cal is being discontinued? (https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppk-s-22lr-new-production-umarex-2013-later/47643-ppk-s-22cal-being-discontinued.html)

jack092251 04-18-2016 04:56 PM

PPK/S .22cal is being discontinued?
 
if I read the postings correctly, the PPK/S. 22cal is being discontinued. I also think it is fair to say there are as many that dislike the 22cal version, as there are those who like it. (that like/hate discussion could go on forever with no benefit). my question to the forum is ..

"Will the remaining PPK/S 22cal handguns being sold now start going up or down in price?"

There are a few of them at a local outdoor store and I wondered it would be a investment to get one.

UniversalExports 04-18-2016 05:49 PM

Thinking about it logically — a gun that obviously didn't do very well in the market to the point it's being discontinued after a very short production run of only a couple of years — I certainly wouldn't look at it as an "investment" piece. Any increase in price would start pushing up against the price floor of the much more desirable earlier iterations from Ulm and Manurhin. That ain't gonna happen.

Austin Powers 04-18-2016 06:06 PM

Seeing as Walther has chosen to quietly discontinue them in the manner which they have, the general public will likely remain ignorant to the discontinuation of the PPK/S ,22LR, and thus everything will go on exactly as it has.
No one here would likely have even noticed if I hadn't pointed out their absence on carl-walther.de and subsequently looked into it.

They're still widely available and there's no reason to expect the supply to drop to any notable degree anytime within the forseeable future.

It's highly unlikely that they'll ever become a collector's item, or that they'll ever even become rare enough to even be considered as such.

Seriously, they've been in production since 2013, yet I've never even encountered anyone who owned one that has been manufactured since 2013, (I bought mine in October of 2015 and it's dated 2013) so that right there should give you an idea of both their availability and desirability.
Hell, that's probably why they were discontinued in the first place. They were a flop which appealed to a niche market.

Jaems 04-18-2016 07:17 PM

Like the Yugo and Edsel, they will be someone's collected item. People have had less problems with them than some with the S&W run of the series.

jack092251 04-18-2016 10:35 PM

thanks for some well thought out comments. the comment by 'Agent PPKS' really got me thinking about the production run of the Ft. Smith PPK/S 22S. The date on the one I saw for sale was also 2013 (BD). I've tried to find production numbers from Walther, but doesn't seem to be available. Anyone ever seen Walther communicate production run numbers?

Jaems 04-19-2016 01:05 PM

You might be able to figure a ballpark figure by getting the Serial numbers from the last ones purchased.

halfmoonclip 04-19-2016 02:12 PM

Agent, you have one. Do they work about as reliably as any other B-flat .22 auto? Are the controls the same as a regular PP series (I believe they are).
It seems to me that they'd make a dandy trainer for a .380 PP if nothing else. I've never looked; how are they priced?
Moon

Austin Powers 04-19-2016 04:30 PM

The PPK/S .22LR is my first pistol chambered in .22LR, ergo I cannot comment on how they compare to other .22LR pistols.
However, I can tell you this much, for all I've read about .22LR pistols being ammo sensitive and their tendency towards FTF/FTE, the PPK/S will reliably feed and eject anything high velocity as well as any standard velocity ammo provided that it has a fast burning primer, (in fact, the only ammo I'm aware of with feeding issues is Winchest Whitebox) so I can only presume that it's above average as far as .22LR pistols go.
The controls are identical to any other PP, in fact the only notable differences between the Umarex PPK/S .22LR and other PPKs are the shrouded/threaded barrel and the fact that the frame is solid beneath the grip panels.

Pricing varies substantially from place to place. My LGS wanted $375, Cabelas wanted $320, and Gander Mountain wanted a whopping $500! I ended up getting mine from my LGS because it was convenient and I wanted to support a local business, plus the closest Cabelas is outside of my State, so with the cost of gas plus transfer fee it would have ended up costing me about the same or more.
When they go on sale, they can be had for as little as $275 NiB, which I feel is a very nice price.

That said, the Bersa Thunder/Firestorm in .22LR has a similar size/feel to the PPK/S, has a steel slide/aluminum frame, and generally goes for $285 or less, so as much as I love my PPK/S .22LR, the Bersa Thunder .22LR seems like a better deal.
However, as a trainer, I can easily recommended the PPK/S .22LR due to being a near perfect replica of a PPK/S in terms of look, function, and even weight, whereas the Bersa has a longer barel, different control layout, and is lighter in weight.

Jaems 04-19-2016 06:24 PM

Walther Ft Smith is still advertising them. So there must be a lot of them still available in their warehouse.

The poor thing got such bad press on this forum. I surprise they sold any at all. Luckily some of us didn't listen to them and purchased one. I found that mine worked a good as my PP in .22. In fact it has been so long since I fired the PP. It is now in my weapons bag. Waiting to go out the next time I go to the range.

Agent is right. The PPK/S feels about the same as any other PPK/S 380 or .32. The grips are a little different in feel do to a different texture, but the fit the same. It takes down like any PP series pistol. The safety is were it belongs. The DA is real stiff, at first. However, either I have acquired a lot of muscles in my trigger finger or it has loosen up with use.

One thing to remember, when you are putting the slide back on. Make sure that the spring doesn't get caught between the end of the barrel and the slide opening. It can be a bare to rack the slide or take it back off. I found out the hard way early on. That was my mistake not the weapons. Otherwise it has been trouble free.

As far as ammo, the only problem has been the Winchester Super "X" and their bulk white box. They seem to be make for rifles only. When I purchased the weapon. I only had .22LR from the late 60's through the early 80's Remington, Winchester Wild Cat, CCI, and Federal. It ate it all.

It a weapon that is cheap enough. That I can throw in my glove box with a couple of boxes of ammo. So when I am at one of my cousins farms. We can BS and shot at cans. The farthest I have bound cans is about 80 meters. So it is accurate enough to enjoy.

Austin Powers 04-19-2016 07:56 PM

Thankfully, most of the posts against the PPK/S .22LR I've read were too saturated with obvious bias and hyperbole for me to take seriously. It's painfully obvious when something is unfairly hated because those who put it down are utterly incapable of eloquent speech and lack enough tangible evidence to adequately explain why it merits such disdain, ergo they just spam negative adjectives and pass the buck onto whomever requests further clarification, then if you do any research of your own it comes back clean.

Seriously, the closest thing to a legitimate reason to doubt the quality of the PPK/S .22LR I've ever seen anyone produce was ad hominem regarding the P22's infamous slide cracks, but even that doesn't hold much water when the PPK/S .22LR has a thicker slide, and from what I can tell pretty much all instances of the P22's slide cracking was a result of defective ammo blowout, meaning it won't even happen under ordinary circumstances. Besides, even if the P22's slide were made of steel, an ammo blowout would still likely damage the gun in some way be it warped slide, bent rails, and/or bulged barrel, thus requiring the gun to be serviced either way, so it's completely irrelevant.
Furthermore, I've yet to find a single report of a PPK/S .22LR's slide cracking under any circumstances, including reports of ammo blowouts, so until I hear otherwise, the PPK/S .22LR seems to be built more than well enough to worry about the slide cracking.
The only real 100% legitimate strike against the PPK/S .22LR is its ridiculously heavy double action trigger pull, but either that smooths out significantly with age or my finger has simply gotten enough exercise from using it that it no longer feels heavy.

As for the slide getting jammed, that seems to be a byproduct of the extra long recoil spring on the PPK/S .22LR. Seriously, the thing is like 1/4th longer than those on a .380 ACP PPK.

So yeah, while it may not be the prettiest nor well constructed PPK ever to be released, it delivers as a plinking/training pistol, so if that's what you want out of it, you won't regret it. If you're expecting a masterpiece of oldworld, hand-fitted art, then you're in the wrong price range and should have known better than to expect anything of the sort out of this to begin with.

searcher451 04-19-2016 08:22 PM

There's plenty of hyperbole going on here, all right. Bias, too, apparently. Let's do our best to stick to the question at hand and leave the flights of fancy for that website on constructing screenplays.

jack092251 04-19-2016 09:52 PM

Owning a good quality gun is a little like owning a piece of art, you need to have pride in they way it looks, feels, and is designed (as well as accuracy, and precision). With that said, the look and feel of the Walther PPK and PPK/S guns appeals to many.

I decided to buy that PPK/S 22lr (serial number @24000) that I mentioned earlier, and think it will be something I will pass on to my son with pride when the time is right.

It just has a timeless look that few pistols can compete with. I know that's a very subjective comment, but most art comments are.

Jaems 04-20-2016 02:09 PM

These PP series weapons are not for competition. Unless everyone is shooting the same type PP, or they are Jamey Bond. Only he can shoot the eye out of a fly at 3000 meters, with a PPK. The PP series was meant to kill in the 9mmk and 7.65mm. The 5.6mm was meant to practice. They did make some longer barrels ones that could be used for competition. Over here the PP in 22LR was meant for practice and plinking. Thar include the old ones and the new.

As far as a collectors item, Yes, in time. It seems they all only have a 2013 date. So they are probably only a one year production. Not because they were a bad idea or weapon.

The reps from Walther Ft. Smith, were on here all the time and read all of the negativity posting about the new PPK/S .22LR, by the purist and want to bees. I am sure there was a lot of discussion, at Walther, about this weapon and the negative impact it was having at the Walther forum.

Walther does or has listened to what was being said on this forum. They brought back the PPQ M1 after so many cried that they had to have a paddle release. They gave you the a 5" PPQ, and one in 45 cal. Because so many were crying they had to have one. They cried again because the PPQ in .22LR was not made like their other PPQ's.

So now you can pay through the nose for a original PP series 22LR, a little cheaper for a Post War copy PP series 22LR, or a cheaply priced PPK/S .22LR. Like all Walthers, they do fall under the lifetime guarantee.

Will Walther ever produce a all steel PP series .22LR, again. No, it will not be cost effective, very few will be sold, and the purist will also find something wrong with it.

Yes, there is a Santa Claus, and one day the new PPK/S .22LR will be a collectors item. It will be needed for someone to fill out their Walther collection. Just like all the other Walthers/Manurhins and even the S&W ones.

SpaceGunner 04-20-2016 05:34 PM

Doesn't BE stand for 2014. I know I've seen some with BE stamped on it. I'm sure I can even produce a picture of one.

UniversalExports 04-20-2016 05:50 PM

Yes, BE does indeed indicate 2014.

SpaceGunner 04-20-2016 05:58 PM

Then they've diffidently made some in 2014

Oldtrader3 06-04-2016 01:03 AM

I am still wringing my German built model PPK/S out. I have sent it back to WA for testing and they checked it out and said it is fine. I have had some FTF/stove piping and burr issues. I very lightly Dremel-deburred the sharp chamber edge burrs and am waiting to get it back for further testing. So far, it shoots high for me? Walther suggested a different ammo (Federal Auto Match) which I have a carton of and I will continue this saga when I get the PPK/S back. This pistol shoots high for me. However, most semi autos do except my Colt Mustang carry gun which is dead on.

Wish me luck. I have owned this pistol for about 5 years but never shot it until two weeks ago. It was shooting 18 inches high at first. Walther says is is shooting on target now with the high front sight?

Jaems 06-05-2016 03:17 PM

I believe the alloy PPK/S .22LR has only been available for three years. Unless you have one of the earlier all steel ones. The later ones come with three different front sights to raise or lower your point of aim.

KDKSAIL 06-05-2016 03:59 PM

>>>...I believe the alloy PPK/S .22LR has only been available for three years...<<<

The '..new..', Zamak-alloy, WALTHER/UMAREX PPK/S .22LR was introduced/announced back in February or March, 2013.

Oldtrader3 06-06-2016 09:02 AM

You are right, I am wrong. I checked and bought the stupid pistol in 2013, like anyone but me cares!!!!!!! The Forum Ninja's strike again. Oh stupid, stupid me! It is 5:30 o'clock in the stinking morning here and some Ninja fan boy is already correcting me! You can give yourselve's a very little, gold star for being so observant?

The bottom line is: will the stinking pistol shoot or not. I was a Mechanical (Automation) Engineer from 1966 until 2003 retirement and rose to Director of WW Engineering and Manufacturing in a Fortune 100 company. I also have a Masters Degree, and was a SME Certified Robotics Engineer for 30 years. so back off! Plus, I also an Army Infantry Veteran and have some shooting medals in small bore and .45 ACP, both civilian and Army.

This pistol is not the crowning achievement of German engineering!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had owned two prior .32 ACP PPK's, one Nazi War Model and one commercial from the 1950's. They shot to aim, they worked and they were accurate. Now go back under your rock and I will let you know how I did before I decide to make a tent peg out of this POS pistol which is from what it has shown me, so far, would be appropriate!

Jimbo80 06-06-2016 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtrader3 (Post 487817)
You are right, I am wrong. I checked and bought the stupid pistol in 2013, like anyone but me cares!!!!!!! The Forum Ninja's strike again. Oh stupid, stupid me! It is 5:30 o'clock in the stinking morning here and some Ninja fan boy is already correcting me! You can give yourselve's a very little, gold star for being so observant?



This pistol is not the crowning achievement of German engineering!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had owned two prior .32 ACP PPK's, one Nazi War Model and one commercial from the 1950's. They shot to aim, they worked and they were accurate. Now go back under your rock and I will let you know how I did before I decide to make a tent peg out of this POS pistol which is from what it has shown me, so far, would be appropriate!


Welcome to the forum!

searcher451 06-06-2016 10:32 AM

It seems that a cold shower is on order for some.

A very cold shower.

Oldtrader3 06-07-2016 01:26 AM

I do not need a cold shower, just a dose of communication. The first moron that I spoke to at WA told me that I was full of crap to take a fine sight with this pistol. Golly, is this some secret type of target pistol or is it a PPK, Zamack-pot-metal knock-off????? You shoot these types of pistols to POA!!!!!

I sent my PPK/S back to W.A. in Arkansas last week because with factory installed medium sights, it was shooting 11-15 inches high with FTF and stovepipe in all three magazines. So I installed the highest sight in the kit and I Dremel deburred the chamber which is also out of round but I can not get a good reading on this with my micrometer. I thoroughly cleaned, packed and sent the pistol to WA for evaluation. Service Manager is a nice fellow who wants to be helpful. I thank him for that after first CS guy blew me off with BS!

For $80. shipping, all they did was shoot it with a coarse sight, different ammo and it shot 2 inches high. Similar to my complaint? This pistol is not by anyone's reckoning a target pistol (look at the sights for openers) which indicates to me a fine sight for self defense is this pistol's only claim to fame. Plus, being an engineer, I hate ZAMACK in a gun with a purple passion, more even than MIMS!

W.A. Inc. would have fined me $40.00, for cleaning, had I had sent the pistol in to them dirty which I did not. However, they sent it back to me really dirty. I guess rules for the lazy CS reps only flow one way?

They advised Federal bulk match which I have this and some standard velocity ammo at home. Buying my .22 Rimfire in PR of Washington is like finding a new species of dinosaur in downtown Seattle!

Problem is, I want to shoot Mini Mag HP's or maybe WW 40 grain Hyper velocity for a defense possible carry gun which shoots to point of aim! I don't want to pinprick a felon around the edges with match ammo, I want to perforate him with HVHP's at POA! I will wring the gun out with what ammo that I have and decide the future of this gun?

Excuse my crappy attitude, I expected better from Walther? My old PPK .32 Walthers were the bomb. Accurate, reliable and well crafted and worked, whether built by the Nazi slaves or by Manhurin?

KDKSAIL 06-07-2016 01:46 AM

Someone with your engineering and manufacturing background should readily recognize that *** NOT-so-minor details matter..***...like WHEN (??) you purchased your PPK/S .22LR....in determining WHICH (??) 'incarnation' of the PPK/S .22 you own---a 'new' Walther/Umarex PPK/S .22LR, introduced in 2013 or a previous era's Walther PPK/S chambered for .22LR. Miss that sort of not-so-minor detail and production can come to a screeching halt and the guy who missed it is leaving the office with a cardboard box filled with his framed family photos and other personal effects from his desk, on his way to the unemployment office. So perhaps you should award the 'gold star' yourself to the person who caught your not-so-minor inconsistency ??

If you've checked this site's threads, there are ammo-sensitivity issues, common to most .22LR semi-autos that also effect the Walther PPK/S as well. So your problems may well be ammo-related rather than pistol related. Just because a particular ammo gone well through on pistol; doesn't mean that it will go as well in another.

The sights on the Walther/Umarex PPK/S also leave a lot to be desired. I've found that painting the 'back' of the front sight and two, thin vertical 'stripes' on the rear sight with high-visiblilty color helps a lot in picking up and holding a proper sight-picture.

Wildtoad 06-07-2016 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDKSAIL (Post 488626)
The sights on the Walther/Umarex PPK/S also leave a lot to be desired. I've found that painting the 'back' of the front sight and two, thin vertical 'stripes' on the rear sight with high-visiblilty color helps a lot in picking up and holding a proper sight-picture.

Yes sir.... Black gun, black sights, dimly lit indoor range, and a black target is really tough to site in for a pair of old eyes. Gotta get me some paint.

Oldtrader3 06-07-2016 07:41 AM

Thank you for the welcome, Jimbo!!!

KDKSAIL: I know which version of what I have for all of the dozen or so handguns plus several or many rifles that I own. What I don't know, is having no idea who you are, acting so superior and criticizing me. Developing a sense of humor and growing up (a little) might help you be a little less lecture prone and judgmental though! Who in the hell are you to lecture me? What are your stellar life achievements which make you Atlas? You have me at an information disadvantage there, since you told me nothing about yourself?

Actually, I can tell you the day that I bought it, how much I paid for it, where I bought it, who the clerk was........... I can even read (surprise?) and see the proofmarks. Hmm, made in Germany! I can despite having lung cancer and am in the process of dying from Bronchiectasis, my FEV (breathing ability is 18% and falling. That is why I am up at 4:00 AM doing this. However, I also actually shoot, walk and chew gum, all at the same time!!!! My 72 year old eyes do have issues with these $17. apiece, microscopic, plastic, black sights though on a black gun!

It is always some 17 year old on these forums who doses me with this non-platitudinous nonsense and thinks that my feeble attempts at humor are ignorance. Who are you, my man, so spic and span?

searcher451 06-07-2016 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldtrader3 (Post 488618)
My old PPK .32 Walthers were the bomb. Accurate, reliable and well crafted and worked ...

You've identified your own solution. Get yourself a real, original German- or French-made pistol in .22 and have some fun with it. It will save a lot of barking and baying on the internet.

Jimbo80 06-07-2016 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by searcher451 (Post 488898)
You've identified your own solution. Get yourself a real, original German- or French-made pistol in .22 and have some fun with it. It will save a lot of barking and baying on the internet.

I still thank my lucky star for making me stop at a local pawn shop while on my way to buy the "new" PPK/S .22. Sitting in the case I found a French made version (Walther marked) .22 PPK/S with the box, papers, and 4 mags for only $100 more than the new one. The only thing about the gun that I could possibly complain about is that it isn't a PPK (poor me).

Jaems 06-07-2016 12:11 PM

I found, if you are not happy about a weapon you purchased. Then you need to sell/trade it in for something you are happy with. Complaining to everyone will not change your feelings about the purchase.

Personally I have no problems with this weapon. It does what it was intended for, plucking. It is not for shooting 1" groups at 100m. But it will bounce cans at 80m. You just have to learn the Hickok45 windage adjustment for this weapon. Just like I had to do, back in the day, on my issued 1911.

If you want a all steel Walther .22LR then go here:

Walther, Simpson Ltd

They even have some used for match shooting. The French Manurhin are first, then some rifles then some of the German/French ones. Most will be PP's, the PPK are harder to find.

Oldtrader3 06-07-2016 12:35 PM

I am going to take my PPK/S back to the range during the next couple days and shake it out more. I was also having some FTF and stovepipe issues. The pistol has only had maybe (50) rounds through it. The back edges of the chamber had some sharp burrs hanging when I bought the gun which I have removed. It needs to be shot some more to see if it will settle down, feed and eject reliably. Function will be the criteria for whether I keep it or not, as much as (7) yard accuracy.

I have two brands of Target ammo and three types of HV ammo to try. I will find out what shoots accurately and what does not. Plus, what shoots where and go from there. If it will not absolutely feed a full magazine nearly all of the time, I won't keep the pistol.

I did not necessarily want a PPK/S, per se. I wanted a .22LR pocket pistol and had had good luck with the older PP's which I had owned. This, realizing fully well that nothing is the same anymore.

Jaems 06-07-2016 03:33 PM

The Winchester has been a problem in all .22LR semi-auto pistols, also Armscor. However, the Winchester works fine in the rifles. CCI mini mags seem to work for everyone along with Remington and Federal, at least in mine.

KDKSAIL 06-08-2016 01:33 AM

>>>...What are your stellar life achievements which make you Atlas? You have me at an information disadvantage there, since you told me nothing about yourself?...<<<

Ah, gee whiz. I didn't realize that you wanted to hold hands, take long walks on the beach and exchange life-stories and 'confidences'. Frankly, you've confused me with someone who might give a tinker's damn about your life story (or you with mine...fair's fair). I was under the impression that this was a informational forum for the Walther/Umarex PPK/S .22LR.

The possibility exists that the PPK/S you purchased **MAY** indeed have problems...but far more times than not, the problems you describe can be explained by ammo-sensitivity, common to many (if not most) .22 semi-autos (Failure-to-Fire, Failure-to-Feed, Failure-to-Eject alone or in combinations) and the particular ammo used. Firing high, low, left or right of POA can certainly be explained by misaligned sights....but can also be explained by inconsistent shooter 'mechanics'. Some days I'm 'spot-on'...others high, low, left or right (or all four at once)....and I would dearly love to be able to blame the sights but......to paraphrase the old adage, "..It's a poor marksman that blames his sights..'.

If you're looking for a .22LR pocket-pistol for self-defense that seems to be less 'ammo-sensitive' than most (though not completely...at least in my experience) take a look at the Ruger SR22 (ships w/small & large grips incl.) It would be a shame to deprive the Ruger forum of your charm and wit.

KDKSAIL 06-08-2016 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaems (Post 489354)
The Winchester has been a problem in all .22LR semi-auto pistols, also Armscor. However, the Winchester works fine in the rifles. CCI mini mags seem to work for everyone along with Remington and Federal, at lease in mine.

I've experienced multiple failures (F-T-Fire, F-T-Feed & F-T-Eject) with all sorts of Winchester .22LR ammo in the PPK/S, Ruger SR22 and Sig Mosquito.

CCI Mini Mags (1,200+) run smoothly through EVERYTHING almost flawlessly (why can't ALL .22LR be as consistently reliable in semi-autos as this ??)

Remington Golden Bullets and Aguilla High Velocity (1,200+) generate very few failures of any kind (out of thousands of rounds).

All of the Federal 'bulk pack' .22LR are almost as much of a problem with the PPK/S and the Sig Mosquito for me as Winchester...but run through the Ruger SR22 well (go figga' ??)

I don't shoot much 'hyper-velocity' stuff (1,400+...who needs the additional 'wear 'n tear'?) but on the occasions that I have, it's run through everything just fine.

Oldtrader3 06-08-2016 09:02 AM

I have NO interest in taking long walks anywhere with you. The Internet is full of back shooters, who are not even considerate enough to give you the benefit of knowing something about your antagonist, in order to at least, slow the invective!

For one thing, I am disabled (18% lung capacity) which somewhat limits my personal range of outside acquaintances, plus I am Common Variable Immune Deficient and you all make me sick, literally. This require an eight hour infusion each third Friday, just to keep me alive. I have clinically died three times in the past 7 years from lung cancer and MRSA pneumonia. No complaining, just fact! Enough said about this. However, you have not told me anything about you, just mostly criticized. For the record, I already have a wife and (5) kids in the Complaint Department!

My first ammo impulse was CCI Mini Mag HVHP's. Shot 1.5 inch groups, up and off target 18 inches high!!!!!! Pistol had burrs the size of ballot chads hanging off each ragged edge of the chamber. Hence FTF, stove-piping, etc, etc. I would shoot CCI HVHP exclusively if the Communist Republic of Washington State would drop dead and stay out of people 's affairs with shooting!!!

Today the PPK/S goes to the range and either picks up with one of the (5) types of ammo which I have or it goes to the LGS on the way home. I have a S&W-SW99 Victory which reliably shoots Mini Mags into 1 inch at 9 yards. I am 72 years old and that is about the extent of accuracy, given that I used to shoot in the low 290's, ten years ago when I was not old and as sick!

I will let you all know what my tests shooting yield after I go to the range. I have two type of target ammo, two types of CCI HV, two types of Win Black Box and some Federal Auto Match. If I can't get near the bulls eye with this combination, it is bye-bye for the PPK/S! All I want is a pocket pistol for snakes while fishing. I have a S&W Mod. 317 and a Ruger Super Single Six as .22's which fill that task, so, we shall see if this pistol makes the team or not?

jack092251 06-08-2016 10:37 AM

it seem that 22 cal. pistols with short barrels are a challenge for consistent shell ejection

just guessing here, but the speed of powder burn from different company's - maybe from grain shape - might be the cause. For a long barrel, a smooth even burn gives the best results. (I know that in trap, we could feel the Remington shells were a lot softer on the shoulder than the federal shells, even though the amount of powder was the same.). In a short barreled pistol however, a slow burn would result in most of the energy just being lost - with the result that there is less energy to fully push the slide back.

so the question is- does anyone have any knowledge on 22lr powder burn differences? and does that match up with the FTE problems seen in ppk/s 22lr ?

searcher451 06-08-2016 12:47 PM

On this forum, at least, we concentrate on the firearms and not our life stories as legal tender to pass along tips, suggestions, or experiences.

Wildtoad 06-08-2016 04:57 PM

If you want a carry pistol for snakes might I suggest a Ruger LCR in 22 with some shot shells? Not trying to be funny. I like my PPK/s in 22 and find it shoots CCI Mini Mags, and HV Remington Golden Bullets just fine. I'm new to pistol shooting and am quite pleased with the accuracy. Just wish the sites weren't all black as my eyes are not what they used to be.

Jaems 06-08-2016 09:37 PM

Jack,

As you have figured out. LR means long rifle that is what the ammo is design for and most have a slower burn for the longer barrel. As a kid all I ever saw was Winchester, Federal, and Remington for .22 ammo. All of their ammo worked fine in the semi-auto, pump, bolt action rifles, and revolvers. When I started shooting semi-auto pistols in .22. These three brands still worked in the semi-auto. Then came CCI mini mags and of course they worked.

Since Olin sold Winchester to FN. Their ammo, at least, in the 22LR has gone down hill for the semi-auto pistol. Since Browning .22LR ammo is also made by Winchester. You can add them to the no use list.

Remington still uses a faster dirty burning powder and so this brand works in almost everyone's Semi-Auto pistol. The CCI have always used a faster burning powder in all of their different ammo's. Which is why they have been the stand by for Semi-Auto pistols. Of course any of the +P ,22LR ammo like Viper, Stinger, and etc will work.

So it is the powder burn that is causing the problems. The Winchester will work all day with out a hitch in my StG 44 and my 10/22. But will turn my Semi-Auto pistols and conversion kits into single shots.

Oldtrader3 06-08-2016 10:25 PM

I shot my PPK/S at the local range this morning with (4) different LR loadings and manufacturer's ammo. I shot three groups of five shots each per ammo type at 9 yards. They were:
-CCI 40 Gr RN Pistol Match, 1070 FPS, 1 FTE/per 5 shots. Shoots to POA, most accurately. Too little pressure to cycle action reliably.
-Federal Auto Match Target 40 Gr HVRN, 1200 FPS, 1 FTF. Shoots 5 inches high, fairly accurate.
-CCI Mini Mag 36 gr HVHP 1260 FPS, 1 FTF/magazine. Shoots 3 inches high, larger group than 40 gr HVRN.
-CCI Mini Mag 40 gr HVRN 1235 FPS, no failures. Shoots close to POA and accurate load, very little vertical dispersion. Round nose feeds more reliably with fewer FTF's.

From this, it appears that I can obtain nearly satisfactory 9 yard results with the HVRN CCI MIni Mag, 1235 FPS ammo. CCI Match is most accurate ammo but will not reliably cycle PPK/S slide. I feel that this pistol needs some more break in shooting. I have owned this PPK/S for 3 years and have only shot about 100 rounds through it, all in the last two weeks. I have and used three different magazines, all performed similarly.

The combination of a fairly light pistol, heavy trigger pull, small sights and fairly high blowback inertia makes this pistol a challenge to shoot accurately, even at 9 yards target distance. I let another man at the range shoot the PPK/S, just for comparison. His results with his own WW HVHP ammo was also unsatisfactory grouping and 6 inch high impact point.

Searcher, there is such a thing as credibility! This brings up the point of currency for decisions or lack thereof. The opacity of forum responder's in this medium does mask the credibility of individual's backgrounds, age and relevant experience. Sorry, but this has always been an issue on forums! Not trying to start a fight, just saying. I do not claim to be anyone's expert on this particular pistol or design just trying to solve some problems with the example that I have. I own several other .22 pistols, all more capable than this one in function, user interface ergonomics and accuracy.

My usual snake gun is a very accurate Ruger Super Single Six or a similarly accurate S&W Mod. 317.

searcher451 06-08-2016 11:37 PM

Best I can tell you is that plenty of good advice has been offered in this thread, by a number of folks with more than a decent track record here. It's the nature of the beast. If you don't trust you read on the internet, and you shouldn't without a thorough gut-check, then you'll just to have to use another form of communication to get the answers that you seek. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, folks can make up anything they want and put it into their CV; happens all the time, in fact.

In any event, let's move on.


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